Tubes 12AX7

[kris]

I am looking for tubes 12AX7 for preamp in my amp.
any suggestios what brand is the best...

[Stbatz]

I have a Ruby Tubes 12AX7 in my Fender The Twin, and are excellent tubes, definitely recommend them
Regards
Rick

[Clamps]

Groove tubes, man they're great. I like electro harmonix too!

[Jabberwocky]

JJ Electronic.

[Klatu]

12AX7 Tube Type Review

12AX7 Tube Types Reviewed

[PTChristopher]

Hilarious.

Microphonics, Hiss, Pop, Dynamics, Linearity of response (sorry to make non-BS versions of the terminology), etc. are ALL EASILY measured and simply shown.

Do I really want to buy a tube because someone who says "yo" all the time has decided it is more musical than another brand of tube?

Sorry to crap on the charts, but they sort of invite it. A little simple data would be a nice change from tube and tone quacks (charlatans).

In my opinion.

Chris

[Klatu]

OK. So what do you recommend?

[PTChristopher]

Hi Klatu,

I definitely understand your point.

Unfortunately, I recommend either specific opinions from fairly observant and dis-interested sources, or objective tests measuring the parameters mentioned in the tube-sellers charts.

I do not mean to criticize anyone personally. I do mean to question the reasonability of such charts from some vendors.

Myself, I have found some reasonably dis-respected tube brands have worked just fine in my pre-amp stages. So I pretty much will try anything, whack it with the eraser end of a pencil, listen for noise, then play through the gain levels I am likely to use.

If it sounds fine to my ears, I am all set. Otherwise I try another tube.

I think this is not very helpful advise or opinion though.

I do have a short fuse on tone-quackery, so excuse my unusual view on the charts.

Chris

[SamBooka]

Depends on what you are looking for..
What are you putting them in?
How much you want to spend?

[Klatu]

HI recommend either specific opinions from fairly observant and dis-interested sources, or objective tests measuring the parameters mentioned in the tube-sellers charts.

Where might we find such data?

[Bluedawg]

My experience with Chinese 12AX7s is that they can sound great ... but don't last as long as the Russian

And the Russian tubes sound as least as good if not better IMHO

[newsense]

For what its worth here is my inconclusive view:

Last year I bought one 12AX7 from each of Tung Sol, Electro Harmonix, JJ Tesla and Sovtek and trialed them one after the other in a Fender Champ 600 against the stock tube.

I was looking for clarity, articulation and harmonic content. To my ears, the Tung Sol was clearly the best in terms of clarity and articulation; not sure about harmonics

BUT it was only one sample from each manufacturer. As a practicing scientist, I know I should have taken at least 10 examples from each manufacturer and taken some average.

Despite the flawed methodology, this year I replaced the 3 stock valves in my Bugera V22 with Tung Sols. I'm not sure I noticed a huge diffeence between these and the original Bugeras.

My point is, I am far from certain whether the differences one can discern between individual valves from different manufacturers is necessarily less or greater than the differences between two valves from the same manufacturer.

P.S. Someday I intend to give one of my undergraduate students a project to look at the correlation between acoustic perforamce and metallurgical microstructure of the so-called cryo-treated valves. I can think of no physical reason why cryo treatement should improve performance, but again, as a scientist, I know I should keep an open mind.

[PTChristopher]

[newsense] >>> I am far from certain whether the differences one can discern between individual valves from different manufacturers is necessarily less or greater than the differences between two valves from the same manufacturer.

My opinion is that this is very much an open question. Especially when we freely mix genuine manufacturers vs. brand names. And when we know nothing about the level of consistency or control that a manufacturer may actually apply - or that a brand may use when sourcing product.

Chris

[PTChristopher]

Klatu,

We may not be improving each others experience here, but to respond:

[Me] >>> I recommend either specific opinions from fairly observant and dis-interested sources, or objective tests measuring the parameters mentioned in the tube-sellers charts.

[Klatu]>>> Where might we find such data?

Well the first part (opinions from fairly observant and dis-interested sources) can come from here. Decide however you see fit regarding the observant (vs. "I found it on the web.") nature of anyone's opinion.

As for a reasonably objective comparison chart, I know of no source whatsoever. My point (such as it is) is that a vendor's chart that seems to be based on absolutely nothing beyond the vendor's opinion misses on both counts.

It is neither observant and dis-interested, nor objective / measured.

All in my opinion.

If one absolutely wants a chart for whatever reason, they are charts. I understand that it is rude of me to try to diminish the possible calming effects of the chart format for a vendor's message.

Chris

[newsense]

My opinion is that this is very much an open question. Especially when we freely mix genuine manufacturers vs. brand names. And when we know nothing about the level of consistency or control that a manufacturer may actually apply - or that a brand may use when sourcing product.

Chris

Agreed !
Although there are some "authorititive" reviews on the web, they lack statistical rigour.

[PTChristopher]

I can't say as I've ever said "lack statistical rigour". I hope you don't mind if I haul it out now and then when the mood is right.

I am unsure pretty often though.

I mean, if a player truly believes that an "orange" (or whatever) capacitor makes them sound better, that is great by me.

Same for authoritative tube charts.

It is when such opinion, or sales communication, is presented as information, then propagated, that I start to think there is something sub-optimal.

I guess this makes me a kill-joy mostly.

Anyway, back to the best 12ax7,...

Chris

[korey-craft]

try some jj's I've had a lot of success with them.

[Patrick2]

The electronics side of guitars and amplifiers is something I know very little, if anything about. However, in an attempt to remain consistent, I will not let that stop me from commenting in this thread.

I just wonder how important the difference between a good tube, a really good tube and a great tube is in our world of jazz guitar, as it relates to tone. For those with cost concerns . . working musicians who use their amps 4 nights a week and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars per year replacing tubes that are poorly constructed and have a shorter than normal life span . . . I understand. But, to truly test the qualities as defined by PTChris and others . . . harmonics, over tones, and some of the other defining words I've heard used, it would seem one would need to do a very extensive comparitive analysis . . by playing notes and/or chords and letting them ring out-sustain in ways that aren't in any way shape or form the way we see, hear and paly jazz. Could anyone please tell me what kind of tubes Wes used in his Fender amps? Or Johnny Smith in his Twin? Who can tell? I just don't get it.?.?

If this was something that I really cared about, I would seek out Andy Fuch's input. He's a contributing member here but not very active. I would just ask him two questions. The first being . . . what type (manufacturer) of tubes do you use in your amps? The second being . . what's the one or two tube manufacturers you would never, under any circumstances, use when building a Fuch's Audio tube amp?

When Andy black faced my silverface Pro Reverb, he also put in an new set of well matched 6L6GC tubes. When I went up to his shop to pick up the amp, we plugged in and played. It sounded fine. He said to me . . "don't you want to know what kind of caps and tubes I used? (he did a cap job on it too . . . . . popcorn). I said . . why would I need to know that??? He just smiled and said . . . "now that's a response I wish I heard more often".

[marcwhy]

JJ Electronic.

+1 on J & J.

[Retroman1969]

The JJs sound great in mine, smoother than the stock, but there are so many other variables....

[nado64]

I've a Sylvania 5751 on the first level, jj tesla 12at7 for the reverb and jj tesla 12ax7 for the others.

[hans halmackenreuter]

can i switch preamp tubes myself, or should i consult a tech?
for example if i want to change a x7 tube against a y7.

[SamBooka]

can i switch preamp tubes myself, or should i consult a tech?
for example if i want to change a x7 tube against a y7.

Nah... No harm at all
The only time Have seen problem is if you put a 12ax7 as the driver for a reverb tank
They cannot handle the current although NOS tubes seem to handle it better

[hans halmackenreuter]

Nah... No harm at all
The only time Have seen problem is if you put a 12ax7 as the driver for a reverb tank
They cannot handle the current although NOS tubes seem to handle it better

Thanks

[Klatu]

The consensus is that judging a tube by its sonic properties without proper objective data is charlatanism, so who can recommend the best tubes with regards to longevity, microphonics, and value?