Tubes 12AX7

[PTChristopher]

>>> The consensus is that judging a tube by its sonic properties without proper objective data is charlatanism

I think that was more my irritating and nearly-useless opinion, maybe not so much a consensus.

I have just not seen (or rather, heard) any reliable pattern in 12AX7 performance regarding your parameters (longevity, microphonics, and value), so I just try preamp tubes with no regard to brand/cost/age.

I'm sure someone can offer a better way.

Chris

[Patrick2]

Kris; Why torture yourself over this? You already know the most popular and most highly regarded brands out there. Just pick a set, make sure they're well matched and pop 'em in.

[Klatu]

So if the brands are basically the same, you recommend choosing the cheapest available? Does this apply only to 12ax7s, or for power tubes as well?

[Patrick2]

So if the brands are basically the same, you recommend choosing the cheapest available? Does this apply only to 12ax7s, or for power tubes as well?

I'll just repeat what I've said here many times before . . . I am no expert, or even very knowledgeable about the inner workings of a guitar amplifier. If it was me needing to replace tubes in one of my amps . . . I'd just reference one of the more notable brands and buy them. There are enough of them out there. What I wouldn't do is waste my time seeking out what's best for this or that tone. Good quality and life span and I'm done with it. That doesn't always mean the cheapest . .. or even the most expensive. I just wouldn't torture myself by trying to avoid a mistake. Pull the trigger, pop 'em in and live with them 'til they die.

[PTChristopher]

>>> So if the brands are basically the same, you recommend choosing the cheapest available? Does this apply only to 12ax7s, or for power tubes as well?

My opinion is (with some unfortunate repetition):

For pre-amp tubes I have noticed, with completely data-free "casual observation", no reason to value one brand or type over another. I have had ostensibly old crappy tubes sound great - low noise, low microphonics, low artifacts (pops, etc.), and even response. I have also had well-regarded brands have problems - excessive microphonics, pops, noise, or seemingly (no test data whatsoever) uneven response to my ears.

So I'll try anything, with what I hope is no prejudice, in the pre-amp.

For power tubes I have sometimes noticed a very clear difference from one manufacturer to another. I have also noticed that the "ratings" (with the seemingly requisite vague explanations) from Mesa are quite reliable. Particularly when looking for late breakup 6V6's.

For 6L6's I am never in a position to push them to the point where I can notice much breakup difference from one brand to another, or from one rating to another from GT or Mesa.

For EL84's I used a bunch of Russian (or possibly Soviet" era) tubes that were built like tanks and had "Radio" (or rather, Радио) written on the sleeve. They sounded great and had no EL84-ish rattle. But I sold the Blues Jr.

Anyway, my opinion is to maybe believe some claims about power tubes, but consider that pre-amp tube descriptions may be overwhelmed by the variation from one specific tube to another.

Or maybe I simply fail to notice a very real distinction about some brands of 12AX7's.

Chris

[Klatu]

Thanks

[Little Jay]

In my experience every tube is different in terms of gain, noise, internal balance and of course sound. Even no tubes of the same brand are exactly alike. Therefore I like to experiment with the tubes I have (I have a small collection of pre-amp tubes) and just plug and listen what sounds (and reacts) best in te specific amp and position. Especially for the first gain stage (usually V1), where effect is greatest. A tube that sounds good in one amp may react different in another.

Among my favorites are TAD (strong, punchy, gainy and a little darker) and Sylvania (smooth, 'brown'), but I used those to tame some of the highs in my Fender Blues Deluxe, so it might well be they don't sound so well in an amp that's already a bit darker from itself. I also have some old Japanese tubes laying around from Toshiba that are very nice: clear and low noise and very open sounding.

My conclusion: it pays off to buy a couple of 12AX7/ECC83-tubes and just listen which one sounds and behaves (in terms of noise, gain, punch) best. And you might be lucky and like the cheapest tube best....

As a side note: yesterday I pulled an old RWN Neuhaus ECC83 tube out of my 1956 Philips radio and put it in my Guyatone Twin-copy (V2, first gain stage in a Twin). Holy cow!! It lifted the whole amp to another dimension! I guess there really is some truth in the whole NOS/Vintage tube-craze....

[Klatu]

NOS 12ax7 shootout

The Big 12ax7 Tube Test :: TGP Webzine

[stevedenver]

Tubes indeed make a big difference.
It is subjective, but its real.

talking 12 ax 7's
I have used JJ's mostly as a decent 'value' tube.
While not particualrly stellar, they are consisitent and servicable and not half bad. In fact great for the price and ease of obtaining, as they are often carried if a vendor stock tubes at all.
I have used Tung Sols too, far more expensive, however, they sound nice.

Russian tubes vary a great deal, especially as to when the were made. Some in the early nineties I found cheap and ...terrible sounding.

I have a pile of Sovteks that i dont like. They squeal (mircophonic) and are harsh to my ear in my marshall 6100.

I think youll simply need to pay 'tone tuition', and buy some and see what you like. I think, with a bit of playing, you'll hear differences. While high gain may be more revealing, there is what I call musicallity or sweeteness or roundness, simply more pleasing to the ear.

Combine this with the amp and your speaker and you just have to mess. Serviceable may be all you need.

I agree -call someone at vintage or mojo, tell them what amp you have and what you seek.

I would think for a jazz preamp--you may like to consider the lowere gain 12 AY7, and this should be less expensive as they are less popular.

IMHO, price, for the most part, is an indicator of what you're getting, but more for rock applications than clean jazz.

I tend to run JANs a lot, and they are worth what you pay for them, good to superb quality and reliability.

Vintage Electronics Supply has been a good source for me over the years -call them and ask.

The question does come to me, are you sure its the 12 AX 7, as they tend not to wear out very quickly?

the best advice if you dont have money to throw out on extra tubes sitting in boxes ( i have a decent collection now)

-is to get with a knowledgable amp tech and pay him / her for insights-you DONT howevr need them to install pre amp tubes-you DO need to be mindful of the pin alignment -

[newsense]

Has anyone ever tried the Cryo-treated tubes (available from Watford in the UK, but I don't know where else) ? If so, did you notice a difference ? From the metallurgy and physics view, it sounds like pseudo-science.