What jazz guitar should I buy for around $1500?

[loudnoises]

Hi everyone,
First post here! I've been reading for a long time though, and recently I've been looking through some threads to help me choose a new guitar.
I have a few solid body guitars, but nothing that nails jazz tone or feels the way a good jazz box does. I have 1500 fairly flexible dollars to spend on an archtop and am totally confused as to what I should get.
I am not really interested in acoustic playing on this - it would be solely for amp playing, at relatively high volumes. I am a big fan of the mellow, smooth and dark old-school jazz tones of Wes and the like.

So - I've played a Guild X-170 from the 80s, a '69 Gibson ES-175 and a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin II CW so far...
I enjoyed the Guild and will probably try and play it again soon. I found the Gibson too similar to the guitars I already have, and was not prepared to shell out a huge amount of money on something which only sounded the part. I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the Godin, but found the pickups a bit underwhelming and the lack of ebony on the fretboard a problem.
Other guitars which have piqued my interested are the Eastman AR810CE, the Peerless range (specifically the Monarch, Cremona, Manhattan & Jazz City), and the Godin 5th Avenue Jazz. I will try and play these if I can, but I think only Peerless are in stock nearby (and there doesn't seem to be a perfect Peerless model for me on paper, except maybe the Cremona which is pretty expensive).

If anyone has any experience with these models, or knows of any guitars I have overlooked, I would really appreciate some advice. It seems the more I look for the perfect guitar, the more the little details catch up to me. For instance I would prefer not to have a floating pickup in the guitar, I do like a cutaway, prefer a tone knob, prefer US make, and would rather not open the mystery box that is the vintage market.

Anyway, I know I am being a bit too specific in my search, but I do have a dream of the perfect jazz box.
That's all I am looking for - a straight up one-trick-pony. A pure jazz guitar for a change of pace.

Please help me!

[kris]

You have to look for good sounding and comfortable guitar.

[Jazzman301]

I think the Cremona(about $2300 and the Manhattan similarly priced) are a bit out of your listed range. BUT the Monarch and Jazz city are both well within your grasp.

I HIGHLY suggest a Peerless Monarch. Give Lou a shout over at guitarsnjazz.com . He is a great cat to work with. You tell him what you want to spend and what you are looking for in tone and scale ect... and he will steer you towards just what you want.

I have a Monarch with a custom set/routed humucker in Antique sunburst and it is my go to guitar. Its a working mans Wes L5. Its got decent unplugged sound but nothing to write home about. BUT it really shines plugged in. I think the Monarch is a far nicer instrument than the Jazz City. But thats me and my ears. I am a fan of the solid spruce top(which is NOT carved) and maple back and sides. It can go from Wes to Joe Pass to Metheny and beyond with a simple turn of the tone knob. The Monarch is well worth checking out.

'Mike

[loudnoises]

Thanks for the feedback and the tip about guitarsnjazz. The Monarch does seem like a great guitar, but my understanding was it doesn't come with a tone knob? I'm sure the ones I have seen have only had a volume control. Also a floating pickup is not my preference.

[Jazzman301]

Guitars 'n Jazz - Inventory Search Results

I have one like this but in Antique Sunburst.

[loudnoises]

Sorry Jazzman - just realised my mistake! I didn't understand that guitarsnjazz sell custom Peerless guitars.
I've sent an enquiry to Lou about those. Thanks again!

Can I ask, have you compared the Monarch to any of the other guitars I listed in the first post? How are the pups in the Peerless? And also, do you see not having a carved top as an advantage or disadvantage?

Cheers

[Abaddon2005]

While not US made, this might be right up your alley:

GCS-1ES | Comins Guitars

[Dad3353]

Good afternoon, Loud...

You could do worse than having a look through this recent post...

Superb jazz boxes for sale...

...from 'HammerTone', a highly respected member of this forum, based in Toronto.

Hope this helps...

[mardasthomas]

Hello. I am new to the forum but want to sound in on this question. I recently purchased a "Godin" Kingpin archtop that comes with a nice warm p90 for solo gigs. I usually use an older taylor acoustic and a national tricone but this guitar was above and beyond my expectations. For starters, I bought it on ebay used (like new) for around $500 with shipping. Don't let the price make you think it's junk. It's a canadian made, nice action, black cherry body guitar that sounds incredible, stays in tune, and is light as a feather. There was no getting accustomed to this axe as i immediately started playing blues, jazz, ragtime and other fingerstyle tunes on this with my little zt acoustic amp. (amp is incredible also) No need to spend $1500.00 as i no of no other guitar that has all of these pleasantries for so little cost. New from Godin they are around 7 to 8 hundred i believe but they can be found used and not abused for half as much. There is a model with two pickups also but i am pleased with mine. It's even a pleasure in open G, C, C6, D etc and has no buzzing in these lower keys as some guitars will do to the light action. for jazz, dadarrio chromes light are perfect and for blues I like pearce phosphor bronze ragtime also. enough said, youtube some examples, hello and peace to all guitar lovers and players as it is a true extension of my personality and soul. Hope to hear from anybody, Tom. aka mardasthomas.

[mongrel]

A Guild made in Westerly like the 170 that's in your price range would be my pick if it suits you.

[jorgemg1984]

I enjoyed the Guild and will probably try and play it again soon.

Maybe here it's your answer... I have a 65 X-500 that it's a great archtop.

[fauves]

Yup if you can get a nice guild arch-top in your range that's the way I would go.

[Jabberwocky]

I like the folks at Bernunzio : www.bernuzio.com .

[Jazzman301]

I compared my monarch to a jazz city and a Cremona and compared to to an Eastman model that eludes me right now. I really liked the Cremona despite thinking I would not based on the specs(maple top back and sides) what a warm and articulate instrument. That really captures the Wes vibe rather well. I did not dig the jazz city in terms of the color or the tone. Both of which are subjective. In the end the Monarch is what Lou recomended to me and he even had one in a very rare custom Antique Sunburst. I could not pass it up.

I will say that you can scoop up a used Guild for about what you are looking to spend. Those are FANTASTIC instruments that are every bit the guitar that a vintage Gibson or Epiphone is and at half the price. Those older Guilds are real sleepers. Wonderful intruments.

I think the solid top(not carved) is great if your intent is to play amplified. Clearly a carved top would have more accoustic presence. But for my needs this was perfect and the price was right. The stock pickup is decent. I left it on for over a year before I changed it and when I did it was to a Pete Biltoft HCC Charlie Christian style single coil blade pickup and not a humbucker. the stock HB from Peerless is very useable.

'Mike

[loudnoises]

Thanks guys for all the tips and advice!

While not US made, this might be right up your alley:

GCS-1ES | Comins Guitars

That's incredibly impressive for a new guitar. Can't find a stockist in my area and I do prefer to play a guitar before buying, but I really like the look of them.

Good afternoon, Loud...

You could do worse than having a look through this recent post...

Superb jazz boxes for sale...


...from 'HammerTone', a highly respected member of this forum, based in Toronto.

Hope this helps...

Greetings! and thanks very much for the link, that's a great thread. Those Hofner guitars sound lovely... Never played one, but they seem to offer a lot at a low cost.

Hello. I am new to the forum but want to sound in on this question. I recently purchased a "Godin" Kingpin archtop that comes with a nice warm p90 for solo gigs. I usually use an older taylor acoustic and a national tricone but this guitar was above and beyond my expectations. For starters, I bought it on ebay used (like new) for around $500 with shipping. Don't let the price make you think it's junk. It's a canadian made, nice action, black cherry body guitar that sounds incredible, stays in tune, and is light as a feather. There was no getting accustomed to this axe as i immediately started playing blues, jazz, ragtime and other fingerstyle tunes on this with my little zt acoustic amp. (amp is incredible also) No need to spend $1500.00 as i no of no other guitar that has all of these pleasantries for so little cost. New from Godin they are around 7 to 8 hundred i believe but they can be found used and not abused for half as much. There is a model with two pickups also but i am pleased with mine. It's even a pleasure in open G, C, C6, D etc and has no buzzing in these lower keys as some guitars will do to the light action. for jazz, dadarrio chromes light are perfect and for blues I like pearce phosphor bronze ragtime also. enough said, youtube some examples, hello and peace to all guitar lovers and players as it is a true extension of my personality and soul. Hope to hear from anybody, Tom. aka mardasthomas.

Hello mate, and thanks very much for the info. I have to agree re the build quality and value of the Godins. Lovely guitars and a very pleasant surprise at that price.

I compared my monarch to a jazz city and a Cremona and compared to to an Eastman model that eludes me right now. I really liked the Cremona despite thinking I would not based on the specs(maple top back and sides) what a warm and articulate instrument. That really captures the Wes vibe rather well. I did not dig the jazz city in terms of the color or the tone. Both of which are subjective. In the end the Monarch is what Lou recomended to me and he even had one in a very rare custom Antique Sunburst. I could not pass it up.

I will say that you can scoop up a used Guild for about what you are looking to spend. Those are FANTASTIC instruments that are every bit the guitar that a vintage Gibson or Epiphone is and at half the price. Those older Guilds are real sleepers. Wonderful intruments.

I think the solid top(not carved) is great if your intent is to play amplified. Clearly a carved top would have more accoustic presence. But for my needs this was perfect and the price was right. The stock pickup is decent. I left it on for over a year before I changed it and when I did it was to a Pete Biltoft HCC Charlie Christian style single coil blade pickup and not a humbucker. the stock HB from Peerless is very useable.

'Mike

Thanks Jazzman. The Peerless comparisons are very interesting. I too am not a fan of the Jazz City in regards to appearance (from what I've seen).
Yeah, I think a solid top would be the way to go for me. It's pretty complicated getting into jazz playing after playing plain old solid bodies for so long, so thanks for the info. I am partial to changing out pups too... I have my eye on Lindy Fralin hum-cancelling P90s at the moment. Would love it if I could fit that into my next guitar.

RE the suggestions to take another look at the Guild, I think that may be a good idea. I hope to be able to play the Peerless guitars tomorrow and the Guild again in a few days. I'll keep my eye out for any of the other guitars suggested here tomorrow and play them if I find them. I shall post back with the results.

I think the X170 I played was a '85. Has there been a lot of variation over the years in this model, or throughout Guilds range?

I really appreciate the suggestions guys. Keep it coming.

[coolvinny]

I think $1,500 is a bit of a "no man's land" in terms of jazz box pricing. For considerably less than that, you could get yourself a nice Ibanez Artcore and have it set up properly...with enough money left over for a ZT Lunchbox and some new jazz albums...

But at the $1,500 price itself, the pickings are slim. If I were you, I'd try to save up a bit more money and look for a good deal on the used market. Used Painter archtops seem to go for around $2,000. I also recommend checking out Craigslist because often custom guitars from obscure luthiers pop up for very good prices.

If you buy on-line, make sure you can return it if you don't like it for any reason at all (e.g. if you just don't like the neck shape).

[Jazzman301]

Not going to get arguement with Hexatonics but here is a Solid spruce top(not carved) Monarch

I think he captures the Wes tone pretty well.

I have not found ANY of my solid spruce tops to be brittle. Could just be my ears though.

'Mike

[coolvinny]

And of course, you could just play a tele if you are comfortable with solid-body ergonomics. Then you're definitely within budget.

[Jazzman301]

Fine point. You could get one HELL of a nice Tele for $1500. I think you can grab a nocaster for about that. Ted Greene made them sound amazing and like they were invinted for jazz.

'Mike

[Spook410]

I would include a Heritage 575 in your list of things to play before you make your mind up. You can find used ones right around $1500 on a regular basis. Since they are solid woods (maple) so they have their own sound.

[loudnoises]

I think $1,500 is a bit of a "no man's land" in terms of jazz box pricing. For considerably less than that, you could get yourself a nice Ibanez Artcore and have it set up properly...with enough money left over for a ZT Lunchbox and some new jazz albums...

But at the $1,500 price itself, the pickings are slim. If I were you, I'd try to save up a bit more money and look for a good deal on the used market. Used Painter archtops seem to go for around $2,000. I also recommend checking out Craigslist because often custom guitars from obscure luthiers pop up for very good prices.

If you buy on-line, make sure you can return it if you don't like it for any reason at all (e.g. if you just don't like the neck shape).

It does seem like $1500 is an uncommon price... I chose it for the topic post really just because it's halfway between what I could afford to spend at the most ($2000) and what I'd prefer to pay ($1000).
I've bought guitars online before with no problems (touch wood), but since this archtop will be such a big change I do really feel I need to play the guitar beforehand. I will definitely make sure there are returns available if I buy online!

Just for my 2 pence.

You mentioned you wanted a plug in jazz box. In that case I would immediately count out any solid spruce topped guiar. They will be way too prone to feed back. The tone is often very bright and sharp too.
I would recommend a slimline type without a centre block. Like the Es125. Or a 335 without a stop piece and instead the usual tail piece. I know Yamaha do a solid topped Es335 so best of both worlds there but hard to find.
Most people here seem to be recommending full size or solid topped jazzers because they fit in your price range, however if your not concerned with amazing acoustic properties then most of the suggestions given will not really suit your needs. Basically they will fed back.

These rules should help you.

Full Hollow and tops:
(solid top) too feed back prone, and possibly bright tone.
(lam spruce) darker more wes tone, less feedback.
(Lam maple) most feedback resistant, nice dark tone not too muddy
(solid maple) Very glassy tone, slightly more feedback prone than laminates.
Thinline: (no centre block)
Mostly laminates but could find a solid top. Again same theory on whether lam/solid, spruce/maple with tone and feedback issues.
Thinlines dont have the best unplugged tone but have a very pleasing jazz sound with all the perks of the thinner body.
Semi-hollows:
Look for ones that dont have a stop piece and have the tail piece instead. Try to find a sprue topped one if pos.
The cons of semis is that they dont quite have that hollow sound behind the note which conventional archtops have. you may find them too dull or the notes do not have enough depth. That being said the Yamaha as (solid spruce) is a fine guitar.

Best bet is to find something like a Guild T-100 or es125, if they are in your range. or go for a full 16' bout laminate for a rounder tone with less feedback. The Peerless bottom line one would sound better plugged in than the all solid wood ones (to me they sound brittle and the overtones can be all over the place)

dont forget solid wood guitars can be acoustically all over the place. Notes up and down the neck will all ring differently. largely because the budget ones are made for the sales gas (all solid woods etc) and not really carved and tuned like the more expensive luthier ones. I have always been unhappy with the cheeper solid wood archtops I have owned.

Good luck

Thanks mate, that was a really big help. It is a lot to learn when you start looking at jazz guitars, so I'm glad you explained about the different woods.
I once owned a Gibson CS-336 which was a nice guitar, but to me is a totally different instrument than the archtops I've played. I think I really want a fully hollow guitar.

Just looked on ebay for 5 mins. Heres a small selection, all will perform the way you want. Some will leave you with a nice bit of change, and be surprisingly good plugged in. Ive had nearly all types of archtops and my Ibanez Af-120 is the easiest playing best sounding small bodied archtop ive owned and i bought it for $300. You dont need to spend mega bucks to get a good jazz tone. The pickups do most of the work anyway :-)

Guild DeArmond X-155 Hollowbody Electric Guitar with USA Pickups | eBay

Fender 1985 D'aquisto Standard Archtop Electric Natural | eBay

Beautiful Jazz Archtop Samick guitar | eBay

1982 Ibanez FG100-NT AAA Birdseye Maple Japan Crafted Jazz Box MINT collectible! | eBay (over priced by about $400/600 but an very good guitar, benson even played one on stage (check youtube)

Ibanez 2355-M Natural 1976 ES-175 LAWSUIT VINTAGE ELECTRIC HOLLOWBODY | eBay

Heritage H550 custom wine red | eBay

Cheers! I especially like the look of the X-155 and the Fender D'aquisto. I'm afraid I'm not really considering eBay purchases at the moment though, unless it would be the same brand/model of what I can play locally first.

Not going to get arguement with Hexatonics but here is a Solid spruce top(not carved) Monarch

I think he captures the Wes tone pretty well.

I have not found ANY of my solid spruce tops to be brittle. Could just be my ears though.

'Mike

Those vids played a key part in my original interest in the Peerless models. The tone is pretty much exactly what I'm going for.
Good stuff.

And of course, you could just play a tele if you are comfortable with solid-body ergonomics. Then you're definitely within budget.

Fine point. You could get one HELL of a nice Tele for $1500. I think you can grab a nocaster for about that. Ted Greene made them sound amazing and like they were invinted for jazz.

'Mike

I have a '95 '52 reissue Tele which I am currently using for my jazz playing, but there is a lot to be said for the difference in feel/vibe/mojo that you get when playing jazz on a big old archtop. I just don't feel great when playing the Tele for that style unfortunately, although you are totally right that they have excelled at that purpose before.

I would include a Heritage 575 in your list of things to play before you make your mind up. You can find used ones right around $1500 on a regular basis. Since they are solid woods (maple) so they have their own sound.

They look like great guitars. Thanks for the tip!

Well, I took a long drive out yesterday to the only place nearby that stocks Peerless, only to find they don't have any at the moment and their website hadn't been updated to show that information. Of course I drove there based on their website saying they had stock. Anyway, they made enquiries and rang me this morning to tell me that no one else around here has any, and the only guy who can get one in is unreachable right now. So he gave me a very vague promise that he would call me again as soon as he had some Peerless stock delivered. It could be next week or in 6 months for all he knows. That's a damn shame and really messes up my decision-making process.

I do want to get this guitar sooner rather than later, so I may have to come to terms with not being able to try the Peerless out. I do feel that I would like them a lot if I did play them, so I could probably take a chance and order one online, but ultimately I would feel more comfortable about buying something I'm as close as possible to 100% sure about.

I'll definitely be playing the Guild again tomorrow, and talking to a friend of mine who knows all the second hand dealers around here. So I'll see what comes of that, and let you guys know.
Thanks again for the advice, it's all helping.

[Jazzman301]

For a NEW guitar...you can't beat the Monarch with a set/routed humbucker you cn get from Lou over at Guitarsnjazz.com. It really is a working mans Wes L5 in my mind. The scale is great(but again I use Labella flatwound 15s on there so..haha) for my small hands and the tone is great even with the stock electronics/pickup. The Monarch with my the Pete Biltoft HCC single coil is great for getting that early Wes tone. Its fat and warm and very articulate. Its all the best parts of a Humbucker and all the best parts of a single coil in one awesome rather quiet pickups, though not as quiet as a full on humbucker. I don't think you can go wrong with the Monarch and the routed/set humbucker Lou offers. Although you could put in a floating Kent Armstrong PAF(you can coil tap that bad boy and its AWESOME) on a standard Monarch with the floater.

'Mike

[mr. beaumont]

(solid top) too feed back prone, and possibly bright tone.
(lam spruce) darker more wes tone, less feedback.

Somewhat ironic, considering Wes played an L5--but I agree, most people have a easier time copping a "Wes tone" out of a laminate...cuz most of us aren't playing with our thumb! Most folks play too loud nowadays anyway...listen to Wes at the Half note...that Misty outtake...you can hear the acoustic sound of the guitar too!


I keep a solid wood archtop, a laminate archtop, and a semi-hollow in my jazz "stable." There's plusses and minuses to each...if you're truly looking for one guitar to cover all bases, there's always some comprimise somewhere in there...but it's not a bad thing...

[kris]

one guitar..?
good qualty semi-hollow .
It is very universal guitar and you can play any kind of music on it.

[pantz]

I'll second the suggestion that you look for a used Heritage. I have a 535 (ES-335 type) and it's a really great guitar all the way around, very versatile, and built like a tank. They also have plenty of models of full hollowbody guitars if that's what you're after.