What jazz guitar should I buy for around $1500?

[coolvinny]

As for sounding too bright...um, what about rolling off the tone knob a bit? I mean...it's already there...

[ah.clem]

You might check with Doc Dosco on the Peerless Monarch. My Imperial has both volume and tone controls although no website shows them set up like that. He is a decent, no bullshit guy with a liberal return policy if you aren't happy. I'm happy with my Imperial. That said, I think the 5th Ave is a nice player, too. Perhaps you can give the new 5th Ave Jazz a try; a few folks on this site have given it good marks. Just my opinion.

[jorgemg1984]

I dont really find that the best way to achieve a good tone. You lose any of the woodiness using that method and it starts to sound like a flatter muffled signal. I might be wrong of course and each to there own.

It would be better to add some bass and take off some treble of the amp but that causes booming on the bass strings at any real volume.

Using good electronics and a good value on the tone cap can make it usable all the way down - and help dulling but not killing the tone; adjusting the pole pieces of the first two strings is also a good idea (and sometimes that strong sound on the high strings in the mids area, it depends on the rig).

The bass is usually problematic with archtops / heavy strnngs / humbuckers (not only because of increased feedback). The bass on most amps is the way to "fat" the sound and if you use it too low you sound thin, specially on the high strings (bright); if you use it high it makes your firs strings sound good but the last ones boomy or musddy);

I have found that a good solution for this is a low-cut filter, maybe on the 100hz area, to clean the bass part of the sound. My compressor sort of does that and the bass is much tighter and controlled and I can use it at higher settings which gives me a fat not bright or boomy sound.

[Revelation]

I had a Guild X170, it was nice but not the neck was not as easy to play. I replaced it with a Carvin Semi hollow body and was very happy with it. Much easier to play, very high quality workmanship, and it sounds great. It offers a more even sound and not the typical lower mid push the Gibsons have

[loudnoises]

For a NEW guitar...you can't beat the Monarch with a set/routed humbucker you cn get from Lou over at Guitarsnjazz.com. It really is a working mans Wes L5 in my mind. The scale is great(but again I use Labella flatwound 15s on there so..haha) for my small hands and the tone is great even with the stock electronics/pickup. The Monarch with my the Pete Biltoft HCC single coil is great for getting that early Wes tone. Its fat and warm and very articulate. Its all the best parts of a Humbucker and all the best parts of a single coil in one awesome rather quiet pickups, though not as quiet as a full on humbucker. I don't think you can go wrong with the Monarch and the routed/set humbucker Lou offers. Although you could put in a floating Kent Armstrong PAF(you can coil tap that bad boy and its AWESOME) on a standard Monarch with the floater.

'Mike

I'm sure they are fantastic guitars. I wish I could play one ATM. I just can't warm to the idea of buying one without ever having seen one in the flesh before, let alone played one.

one guitar..?
good qualty semi-hollow .
It is very universal guitar and you can play any kind of music on it.

As I say though, I did used to have a Gibson 336 and I didn't love it. I'm not really looking for something like that, and I don't need the versatility as I do have other guitars for other genres.

I'll second the suggestion that you look for a used Heritage. I have a 535 (ES-335 type) and it's a really great guitar all the way around, very versatile, and built like a tank. They also have plenty of models of full hollowbody guitars if that's what you're after.

I'll get ahold of my local second hand dealers and try track down a Heritage. I definitely would be after a full hollowbody one. Thanks for the tip mate.

I think you should seriously reconsider your thoughts on the peerless. They are good, but they are very light and quite fragile. There tone is not wow to my ears although very good. Im just worried that you will find it quite impractical at higher volumes. Whatever you do, stay away from the solid wood ones.
If you bought one new, you would also have to face a loss in sale, why not go through ebay and take the hit someone else has already faced?

That way you can change your mind get your money back and buy again. It will be very doubtful that you buy just 1 archtop, once you get into them, theres no way out he he! :-)

Plus peerless are 17 bouts, you want a 16 bout, or a peerless with a 16 bout, laminate woods (pref maple top if you can) lam spruce can be too dark. Lam maple is the best of both worlds.

good luck.

I do like to buy mint guitars off eBay when I can - easy way to save a lot of money usually. Thanks for the info on Peerless; I do wish I could have a look at one myself. I think I read somewhere else on here about some quality control issues, so I would be a little nervous about ordering one sight unseen.
Cheers mate, and yes, I can easily see myself snapping up quite a few of these archtops in the future

You might check with Doc Dosco on the Peerless Monarch. My Imperial has both volume and tone controls although no website shows them set up like that. He is a decent, no bullshit guy with a liberal return policy if you aren't happy. I'm happy with my Imperial. That said, I think the 5th Ave is a nice player, too. Perhaps you can give the new 5th Ave Jazz a try; a few folks on this site have given it good marks. Just my opinion.

I emailed Doc the other day and he did tell me he sells Monarchs w/ tone and volume knobs and a routed pup. On his eBay page he has them for sale for around $1400 I think.
I will admit that when I read the specs of the 5th Avenue Jazz I thought I'd found my guitar at last, but the price does seem disproportionate to the amount of difference between it and the other 5th Avenues. I might have to start thinking about it again... Probably the closest to what I'm looking for in terms of new guitars. Thanks for the tips.

Well, I did indeed play the X-170 today and have to say it remains my favourite of the archtops I've tried out. Something about the wide neck and the fretwork just makes the fingers glide over it. So I called a buddy of mine who has found me great guitars before and he is enquiring about these Guilds elsewhere. So depending on what he finds I may get myself an X-170 and pray that it is as nice as the one I played today!
At the moment (given the fact I can't demo a Peerless for the foreseeable future) it seems like my choice is between getting a nice pre-Fender Guild X-170 like the one I played today, or saving a fair chunk of change and getting one of the Godin 5th Avenues. Of course, that may change if I end up finding one of the other recommended brands to play. It all depends on what's nearby ATM, really.

I really do appreciate all the advice coming my way.

[Jazzman301]

Grab a Monarch from Lou Or Doc. They both have return policies that are easy to deal with. I know Lou will send the instrument out to you SET UP and with the strings on it that you want. Grab the Monarch(ps they make a Monarch with a 16" lower bout and routed set humbucker) and try it out. Best case is you LOVE IT worst case is you call Lou and tell him its not for you and send it back. I will eat my hat if you don't dig the Monarch...haha

Guitars 'n Jazz - Inventory Search Results

According to Lou other colours are available beyond what is listed on his site.

'Mike

[mr. beaumont]

Simply not true about the Godin. It's a relatively small laminate box, and in the few years I've had mine, I've experienced no feedback problem, even at a few "rock type" gigs I used it for.

[jorgemg1984]

Mr B thanks for clearing that up, as we'bve talked before I might get a Kingpin and feedback is an issue for me since I play loud. Why would he say something like that if it's not true?

[mr. beaumont]

I'm guessing he was thinking it was solid wood?

I mean, a semi-hollow is always going to hold up better as far as feedback goes...but if you want a full hollow guitar, the most feedback resistant (for the most part, there's always an exception somewhere) ones are the smaller box laminates, which the kingpin is...

I mean, if you crank up a Marshall and step on a fuzz box, you're gonna have issues...

[mr. beaumont]

They're definitely quite lightly built, which can definitely be a sign of a more resonant guitar that could feed back...but they're actually not that deep, a hair under 3".

Certainly no need to apologize, btw--there's so many models out there it's hard to keep track of what does what anymore...it's a great time to be a jazz guitarist--and a confusing one!

[TSP]

While not US made, this might be right up your alley:

GCS-1ES | Comins Guitars

+1

[jorgemg1984]

I do apologise most sincerely if I have been incorrect. I was not trying to miss lead you if I knew that it wasnt an issue.

Mr B is obviously right and I found his response applaudable for its tone.

I just remembered seeing one in a shop. It had more of a traditional look and a deep body. it was also quite light. These are of course normally things that make archtops quite feedback prone. I was amassing my knowledge without proper testing and im glad that Mr b has rightly pulled me up on this.

I suppose the best thing is to see for yourself. Although not always practical.

it did however seem to me that the original kingpin, having no cutaway and the previous things I mentioned would not be a good choice for your requirements.

Dont forget, the deeper the body the more feedback you will get.
I hope that my previous posts have been of help though :-)

Thanks Hexatonics, I hope I didn't sounded harsh! Since I play loud I even have feedback issues with my Guild X-500 (although I have some nice f-plugs to avoid that) and you scared me with the Kingpin. But I think I will get some plugs for the Kingpin too if I get it.

[loudnoises]

Yeh just to add, the guilds are good they will be very feedback resistant having a lam maple top. The Godin will not work for you if you want to play at volume. Repeat you will not be able to use that guitar in any practical live situations without massive feedback issues. Also in my opinion there are far better bop styled guitars. They are great but considering what you stated you wanted, I dont see how they are in your options list in any way.

Here are some of the best archtops ive played that indeed have tone with practical use

Greco FA-95 or 65/75 or 80.
Ibanez FA-100 Fg-100
Guild x-170 or even better x-175

All these guitars are bang on and in your price range. You will find unlike solid body guitars, japanese made archtops have exceptional quality control and one guitar to the other seem almost identical. This is quite odd because solid bodies can be massively different in terms of quality even between the same models. For some reason archtops generally always have few issues and therefore you can successfully buy them and not get a real dog!
If you buy on ebay, just make sure the seller has good feedback and you ask if the neck is straight, truss rod working properly.

Be careful with guilds, they have no real angle on the neck from the body over time they have issues because the bridge will often be all the way down and only be strung with say 12's or worse 11's. The price you pay for this ofcourse is that they play like butter. Just check if you see in the pics whether the bridge is already fully down, you might wanna avoid that one.

The 16 bout routed hum laminate peerless sounds like a good choice but dont pay over $800 you would be paying too much otherwise. Im sure Doc dosco is great but hey will be making a profit on you, why let him, just find one yourself. Korean quality control is actually pretty good.

I did notice some small feedback issues when playing on the 5th and 6th strings while testing out the Kingpin II, however nothing dramatic. Thanks again for your info Hex, you most certainly have been a big help!

I have been doing some thinking and searching far and wide for a nice X series Guild, as that seems to be the best option for me at this time, and found two lovely vintage X-150s for sale (I do only need one pickup after all). A '54 natural and a '57 burst. There doesn't seem to be a huge amount of info on them out there. Are there any sites that would have timelines of the changes to these models or anything like that? Is there any plywood involved in these models? And what is the Savoy X-150?
The '54 appears to have higher laminate and has a humbucker rather than the P90 on the '57.

I am genuinely very excited about these guitars.

Anyone who knows anything about the differences between a '54 and '57 X-150, and the differences between the 150s and 170s, would be doing me a huge favour by letting me know!

[jorgemg1984]

hexatonics in that price range what other archtops would you say are a better choice and why? (I don't mean used because that varies from place to place)

Thanks!

[mr. beaumont]

By the way im glad you mentioned the feedback on the king pign. Although Mr b has stated otherwise and I have no 'real' experience to disagree, I would stil put my bottom dollar on them wailing like a banshee in a small room with drums bass and a loud sax player.

It depends on the strings etc and other issues, ie how bass heavy you like your sound.

I also thought they sounded quite boxy. In my op there are better archtops out there and i dont like the look of them. They seem to be designed more like an old blues guitar which are boxy by design. Still im sure I might get told off for saying that :-)

Agreed...yeah, they're sort of a "modern 125" or reminiscent of an old Harmony, only... you know...playable

But due to that boxiness, they're not that resonant...hence quite resistant to feedback...maybe I gotta do a video where I crank the amp up really loud with mine to show you guys...Of course, I don't own a distortion box anymore...and my tube amp is a SF Princeton, it's still clean on "10."

The Kingpin is a very "niche" design--if you like old school looks and tones (I plug it in and I sound like 50's Jimmy Raney, minus the talent) it's a cool cheap guitar...if it's not your bag, ain't nothing gonna make you like it....but i think it's only ugly if you like the Epiphones and Ibanezes in it's price range with the 1/2 inch of finish on 'em better

[mr. beaumont]

I like the way you got the Ibanez dig at the end.

You caught that, huh?


Sometimes I think guitar companies think we're idiots...maybe we are...the modus opperandi seems to be "guitar players equate quality with shiny stuff."

I guess that's why I like the Godin so much...it's a very "what you see is what you get" guitar...hell, the thing has a bolt on neck, for cryin' out loud...

[jorgemg1984]

Umm im sensing im in trouble now but i will take your question at face value, if you agree ti let me off for saying better. That of course is just an opinion. I dont mean to say it in the context of design, quality. I mean it as a personal opinion for a particular style of jazz.

I like playing Bop so I would say that I would rather take a korean Gb-10 over the kingpin and get change too. I would take a de-armond x-155 again with change. Um an Ibanez af-120 again with change too.

But im a pure bop guy, so again thats why a kingpin would not be in my sights, not only cosmetically but from what ive heard sonic reasons too.

Or

Tokai jazz guitar semi-acoustic ES175 175 copy. Hard case included | eBay

Maison ES-175 guitar in fantastic condition. Very rare. | eBay

Brilliant Guild CE100SB Archtop Jazz Guitar (excellent Condition), Made in USA | eBay

Hofner Jazz Guitar Single Pickup Sunburst HCTJ17 | eBay

Hofner German Made Verythin Special - Sunburst - NEW | eBay
It might not be a fair comparison because these are second hand. Still I bought a Godin progression because I wanted a strat and i cant stand the fact that fender cant even get lego guitars right. The Godin was well made and looks great. The neck is fantastic, but it just doesnt sound as good as a strat ;-(
I did briefly pick up a kingpin and I though it was a funny design, I didnt really like the acoustic tone so I put it back. But of course thats just my opinion.

I mean come on, its really ugly no?

I like bop too. Actually I like everything from hall to rosenwinkel

I can't play on GB guitars, they feel like children's guitar to me because they are so small. I've been also unable to like any Artocre guitar I played... I like De Armond guitars but they don't show up that often here... quite rare actually!

Let's see what I decide... made an offer on the kingpin, let's see what's his reply. I like it's so different from my X-500...

[jorgemg1984]

I want one because I want a cheap archtop to leave the X-500 at home more often; and I want one with a P90 for diversity...

I love the X-500, it's a magical guitar.

[mr. beaumont]

If he tells me they've got a bolt on neck, im gonna laugh my face off.

Be prepared to laugh a lot then...


Take a peek through a soundhole towards the neck block...we're not talking a metal plate on the back like a strat...but...this ain't no traditional neck joint...


Just another reason why I love 'em...pretty much will never need a neck reset...it's a maintenance free guitar, pretty much...

Sorta fell for mine again in the last few months...I was playing my Hofner almost exclusively until my wife and I had our first baby...then playing time became a real hot commodity...instead of plugging in at home I now usually just reach for something I can hear unplugged...The Kingpin's great for that, as it's not too loud either for when I try to sneak in a 2am practice session...

[mr. beaumont]

Can I still laugh?

Im not sure now you mention its some sort of improvement.

I got my eye on you Mr b

:-)

I dunno if it improves anything...I just like the "screw tradition and glossy finish" attitude of it...

If Godin sold replacement necks though, it seems like just maybe one could be changed out rather quickly...

[loudnoises]

Hmm

I dont wanna burst your bubble, and i may be speaking out of turn, but i would stay well clear of any 50's guilds.

They had an up and down period here and from all the models ive seen, there have been issues, and big ones.

I refer back to my comment about neck angles and bridges. You really need to be aware of this.

I would also state as a logical thought, most GUilds from that era in your price range will probably not be the 'best' and by that I mean, the ones that have issues or have been tampered with.

It is very rare to see a guild of that age that I would buy personally.

I would go for an 80's one. They seemed to have hit their stride by then, they are also less expensive because the 70 's prior are considered more collectable. What im saying is, you can get an excellent guild from the 80's even early 90's with a smaller price tag and better condition.

If you can find a ce-100 capri that could be good.

Here check these out!

1970 GUILD CE-100 D 100d CHERRY SUNBURST!!! w/original HANG TAG!!! | eBay

Guild X170 jazz guitar 1992 excellent | eBay

2002 Guild X-170 Manhattan Thinline Archtop Electric Guitar w/ OHSC EC | eBay

So the first one is a later ce-100. It is in pretty bad shape, looks like maybe the neck has been reset or there is movement in the joint. If its stable though could be good and you could get a good price. Bit too much for a jazz noobie though in my opinion (no offence)

Second one is the guitar you want. Now the seller is absolutely bat shit crazy to believe he will get that price. Literally hes just high balling it in the hope that there is someone out there that doesnt know anything. Put him in an offer of $1,500 see how you go. Tell him hes crazy and call his bluff.

Third one is also what you want. ocndition not as good and again the saddle seems pretty low. But seller has excellent feedback. you can usualy lean on them if your not happy because they wil do anything to protect their 100% rating. Hes had a few offers, chuck him one at $1,500.

If you have played and can see these guilds you mention, then thats ok but if your buying them unseen be very very careful. There are a lot of things to go wrong with archtiops, and you wanna go straight into the vintage range of early guilds. Your brave I will give you that! :-)

Not at all - it's good of you to let me know. I am generally wary of very old guitars, and it's important to stay focused.
One very interesting development is that the guy selling the "'54" X-150 got back to a query of mine and told me that it's actually a 2000 reissue! I guess it slipped his mind to put that into the listing Although I do feel pretty stupid for believing that I had found one near-mint from '54 for that much.
So with that in mind, do you think a 2000 '54 reissue X-150 would be a good buy? I also liked the look of an '87 Manhattan (although it is quite possibly a Mini Manhattan) on eBay. However I can get the 150 cheaper.
From what I understand, apart from the single pickup, the only significant difference between them is the 150 being deeper than the 170, and the 170 having a sound post. Is this correct?

Thanks for the eBay links. That 2002 is lovely, although as it stated Thinline in the title, I think it is also a Mini-Manhattan.

[Spook410]

I mentioned a used Heritage but allow me a different suggestion. I recently bought a Chinese archtop from the Yunzhi factory (you can work with their reps to order directly). Solid (gorgeous) woods. Fancy bindings. Hand made. Very similar to a high end Eastman. However, there is no warranty and you can expect some flaws particularly in hardware (electronics, tuners). I also expected to have to spend time with the frets and nut but this wasn't needed. With shipping the guitar was about $1000. I'm adding a Kent Armstrong handmade (about $200), new tuners ($50), and new pots ($35 thumbwheels). With miscellaneous stuff that's about $1300 assuming you can do the work yourself. It's a solid spruce top with a floater so it will feedback, but I think you said you had a semi-hollow for that. The nitro finish is nice. The wood work is flawless. I haven't had any problems I wasn't expecting yet. I realize this isn't for everyone as there are risks, but I'm liking this guitar more every single day.

[loudnoises]

Well, I finally bit the bullet and ordered an '87 Guild X-170.
From what I can tell, the mini in Mini Manhattan was an unofficial title given because the X-170s are so much thinner than the other X models.
I just want to say a final thank you to everyone for the great advice. I thought about it all a lot and am satisfied that I considered all the options. At the end of the day, the X-170 just gave me the best response when I played it, and I found the perfect one for sale. And now I do know what's out there for when I'm ready to buy my second archtop
I will post pics when it arrives, if anyone is interested.

Cheers!

[Billnc]

Hello. I am new to the forum but want to sound in on this question. I recently purchased a "Godin" Kingpin archtop that comes with a nice warm p90 for solo gigs. I usually use an older taylor acoustic and a national tricone but this guitar was above and beyond my expectations. For starters, I bought it on ebay used (like new) for around $500 with shipping. Don't let the price make you think it's junk. It's a canadian made, nice action, black cherry body guitar that sounds incredible, stays in tune, and is light as a feather. There was no getting accustomed to this axe as i immediately started playing blues, jazz, ragtime and other fingerstyle tunes on this with my little zt acoustic amp. (amp is incredible also) No need to spend $1500.00 as i no of no other guitar that has all of these pleasantries for so little cost. New from Godin they are around 7 to 8 hundred i believe but they can be found used and not abused for half as much. There is a model with two pickups also but i am pleased with mine. It's even a pleasure in open G, C, C6, D etc and has no buzzing in these lower keys as some guitars will do to the light action. for jazz, dadarrio chromes light are perfect and for blues I like pearce phosphor bronze ragtime also. enough said, youtube some examples, hello and peace to all guitar lovers and players as it is a true extension of my personality and soul. Hope to hear from anybody, Tom. aka mardasthomas.

Friend of mine has one killer guitar. Uses it for his Freddie Green thing in a big band.