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The ones that I have had extensive playing time on:
1928 Gibson L-5
1938 Gibson L-5
1940s D'Angelico Excel
LOTS of 30s-50s Epiphone Triumphs, Broadways, and Deluxes
Early-60s Gibson Super-400 (unsure of exact year, but rounded cutaway)
'37 Gibson L-7 (do not discount this guitar as less than the rest--L-7s from this vintage are OUTSTANDING)
Late-70s Gibson Kalamazoo Award natural finish
acoustic archtops by Collings, Benedetto, Heritage, American Archtop, etc.
I have not had extensive personal time on a vintage D'Aquisto or a D'Angelico New Yorker.
Of the great guitars I HAVE played on, the best sounding acoustic was the KA, followed by the Excel, then the '28 L5 or the Super-400. The Epiphones were the loudest guitars--even the smaller ones--but (Deluxes excepted) the Excel and Gibsons were sweeter. The '38 L5 was actually as loud as the typical Epiphone, though.
Best? (As opposed to what I liked...) The consensus would be a New Yorker, no? It has been the pinnacle of custom-made guitars forever. Mel Bay or Johnny Smith's New Yorker would be an exceptional instrument to own. Maybe, somewhere over the rainbow...
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09-23-2015 10:04 AM
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Wasn't Freddie Green's guitar up for sale a couple of years back?
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I heard a guy play a rhythm gig with a swing band on an old Super 400 and I can't say I was knocked out by it - nice guitar on its own though.
Originally Posted by Greentone
The big old Epiphones are some of the loudest cutting cannons there are. The sound is quite brutal. Will probably be unattractive to many, because it is designed to sit in a certain place in the overall orchestra sound.
Never tried an L5 of that vintage but if they are as loud as you say, great. I have tried an early 30's one which was lovely - very well balanced, warm sounding guitar. The later ones are bigger, no?
But for playing some nice stuff on your own? Vintage L5 or New Yorker, I reckon. That's what I would probably go for.
D'Angelico NY - never played the originals, but don't they go for about a quarter of a million USD?
It's a great guitar design though, there's some great copies being made.
In archtop circles saying 'money is no object' can get silly very quickly haha...Last edited by christianm77; 09-23-2015 at 10:57 AM. Reason: to make sense
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Found you The Holy Grail, Mac:
Retrofret - D'Angelico New Yorker Special Arch Top Acoustic Guitar (1961) - Brooklyn, NY .
$45 000.00. One owner D'Angelico New Yorker. I love the finish!
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Earlier this year i had the opportunity to attend Mark Withfield's clinic in Berne, Switzerland and he was playing Archtops built by Stefan Sonntag from Augsburg, Germany. One of them was a unamplified 18" which sounded outstanding. Cannot remember anymore if it was with or without cutaway.
Archtop Jazz Guitar J18 Augusta by Stefan Sonntag
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a vintage DA New Yorker would be at the top of my list........
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There is no such thing as "best", because every situation is relative. Better and louder are not always the same thing, in fact sheer volume measured in decibels doesn't necessarily translate to more projection or the ability to be heard. Larger guitars aren't necessarily louder than smaller ones. Originally Posted by MacFever
There is a basic dichotomy between midrange-y/punchy/nasal (often represented by parallel-braced guitars) versus fullness/roundness/sustain (often represented by x-braced guitars).
As an example, I was playing a gig last night with a trio backing a singer. The previous gig with this group I played my '32 Epi De Luxe, and the venue was small, with decent acoustics, and a bass player with appropriate volume. I felt the De Luxe had too much cut and punchy-ness, and I missed the fullness of my '35 L-12 - I thought it would fill out the small band better. This time around I brought the L-12, but it was to a much larger and noisier space, with a bass player who was playing way too loud. The fullness just translated to muddiness in the wash. The L-12 would be been best on the previous gig, but the De Luxe would have been better last night. Now, sitting at home, I often find the L-12 to be more pleasing to play by itself. Context is key.
I have a sneaking suspicion based on playing my '32 L-5, and having played probably 5 other 16" L-5s, two Stromberg Master 400s, 6 or 7 D'Angelicos in the last couple months, that what are often regarded as the very best vintage guitars have an ability to be the best of both worlds. My '32 L-5 has much of the punch of my De Luxe and much of the warmth of my L-12. I found a similar quality with the D'A's I played.
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If money is no object ... just buy 2 or 3 samples of each ...
spend some time working with them all .... sell the ones you don't like to us at a huge discount
We expect a full report within 6 months ....
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OMG that New Yorker sounds beautiful.
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I have just taken delivery of a Stefan Sonntag 18" Augusta as mentioned by Jazznote.
It's fundamentally a 18" D'Angelico New Yorker with a cutaway except for the tailpiece and some of the ornamentation.
Specs are 18", X bracing, 650mm scale, 80mm depth.
What a sensational guitar! So balanced!
Jonathan Stout mentioned "what are often regarded as the very best vintage guitars have an ability to be the best of both worlds" and "I found a similar quality from the D'A's
I was looking for that elusive "all rounder" and I think Stefan Sonntag has achieved that ability and some!
I am in Australia and I ordered this guitar over the internet after a lot of research and recommendations from the likes of Robin Nolan and
Ulrich Hoffmeier (Palast Ochestra) and others. Not for the faint hearted I can tell you. Sight only and no sound or play!!
Anyway, it arrived a couple of weeks ago and I said above, it's sensational. Best of both worlds.
I am still trying mucking around with strings, currently using a set Martin SP 80/20 Bronze 54-12's and thinking about a set 56-13's.
Will probably try a set of Phospher bronze as well??
Any recommendations will be gratefully appreciated.
Just another thought.
After playing a 16" for some years the 18" takes some getting used to.
A mate of mine called in the other day and had a play. He just loved the sound but said it was like holding the front door of his house!
Sit it your lap same as Freddie Green and all is well.Last edited by grantc; 09-24-2015 at 08:29 AM.
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Stefan Sonntags guitars are very beautiful IMHO. Originally Posted by grantc
FWIW, I prefer nickel round wounds to bronze or phosfor bronze. The latter is a bit too harsh and metallic for my taste.I am still trying mucking around with strings, currently using a set Martin SP 80/20 Bronze 54-12's and thinking about a set 56-13's.
Will probably try a set of Phospher bronze as well??
Any recommendations will be gratefully appreciated.
+1. I do the same with my 19" Triggs.Sit it your lap same as Freddie Green and all is well.
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Like someone posted earlier, this is very subjective, because you're limited to what you've played and/or heard.
My '35 D'A that I inherited from my father was played by Bucky Pizzarelli, and Roger Borys said it was so powerful acoustically, you could hear it from any corner of the club.
Bucky can do things on a guitar like that that no one else can do, because he developed his style on that very same style guitar that George Barnes gave him many years ago.
Bucky wanted to play that guitar so bad, he invited me to visit him sometime- just so he could play it!
Jack Wilkins was playing with Bucky that night, and he said my D'A was the greatest guitar in the world.
The only better sounding acoustic archtops I've heard were my first guitar teacher's D'A NYer, and Roger Borys' B-420, which is his version of the NYer, and when I played it, I felt like I was taken back in a time machine to my first guitar lessons.
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Reading the thread feels like I'm peering into a alternate reality, a junction of 1%ers (0.5%ers?) and guitar gear heads. I make a decent wage in technology mgmt but ... Money is no object?!?! Please somebody buy me the Monteleone Radio Flyer. I'll be lucky if I ever see one in a guitar museum. Wow, just wow. This isn't the reality I reside in.
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I make a decent wage in technology management too, and I'm not buying "money no object" guitars... But I'm still buying freaking awesome guitars! So no need to focus on the money thing. There's plenty of good stuff out there, holy grail or not. No tears need to be shed if the D'A New Yorkers all go to somebody else.
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I can get on with that. Originally Posted by rpguitar
I put TV Jones PUs and a Bigsby on an Epi Broadway - now it's a blonde falcon and I love it. But I killed any jazz it had in its soul so I'm gonna have Yolanda Team build me something. Less than $3k total for both. Tone perfectionists will surely find fault but it's what I like and what I can afford.
I'll still lust after the expensive exotics but I won't own one til I win the lottery (which I don't play so it's probably not happening).
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rather than have someone make you something that sounds good, make what you have sound good
cheers
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Whatever. Aren't we all trying to do that? I've been playing for 40 years, I'm not great but my skills are what they are. Lusting after beautiful instruments really is a different subject than what you're saying - unless you're deliberately trying to be condescending. In which case ... troll on.
Last edited by BigDee62; 09-24-2015 at 09:24 PM.
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Thanks oldane.....
So you use Nickel wound strings on your Triggs? What brand and gauge?
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My "money no object" was simply to see what you guys think is the best jazz guitar out there without considering its cost Originally Posted by rpguitar
This does not mean that I will fork out $50000 for a guitar ...
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At present: D'Addario ECG 25 (12-52) - because I have a couple of sets lying around which I will use up. But otherwise I'd prefer a 13-56 set (D'Addario or other, for example Martin Tony Rice Monel 13-56). Originally Posted by grantc
But that's just me. Choice of strings is very personal, entirely depending on your taste.Last edited by oldane; 09-25-2015 at 09:59 AM.
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Jonathan Stout wrote a piece on his blog about strings and it seems that the swing era players possibly used Monel. I think he said he was trying some Martin Tony Rice Monels but he hasn't said anything about them yet. Originally Posted by oldane
He recommended 80/20 bronze, James Chirillo recommended Phosphor Bronze.......???
The Augusta had 54-12 Nickels when it arrived but I had a set of Martin 80/20 laying around so I thought I would try them. They certainly brightened up the sound a bit.
This "string thing" is all new to me. I have been playing a Selmer Django copy for the last 10 years and there is only one string choice.....Argentine 46-11.........nice and easy!
Anyway, I think I will give those Monels a go though......Last edited by grantc; 09-25-2015 at 10:40 AM.
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I tried a set of the Tony Rice Monels when they were first released and was not as impressed as I thought I would be. The acoustic sound was just fine, that was not the problem. It was the electric sound that underwhelmed; the balance was way off. I expected the string balance to be on par with the nickel string sets that I normally use (D'Addario EJ21), but they more resembled bronze strings in that the unwound E and B were far louder than the wound strings. Originally Posted by grantc
The other issue I had at the time was that Martin still had not released the strings in gauges outside of Tony's preferred 13s, and they felt a bit too stiff for my liking. While I do intend to try them out again, I'll make sure and go with the 12s and put them on a guitar with adjustable pole pieces.
As to the question of Selmer strings, I recently ventured outside my 10 gauge comfort zone into the world of 11s and found them to be very tight. My guitar is a long scale oval hole model, so I'm thinking that either the longer scale doesn't play well with 11s, or that I'm too wimpy to handle the tension.
By the way, I agree with you that Argentine strings are the way to go. I tried several equivalent sets from other providers a while back and found that they couldn't capture the vibe the way the Savarez Argentines could.
Every other type of guitar I own, whether it be a solid body electric, acoustic archtop, jazz box, etc could take strings from many different companies, but Selmacs are beholden to Savarez Argentines. It must fell good to be the overwhelming choice for an entire musical niche.
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But then, the Tony Rice Monel set was not intended for elecric guitar in the first place. Originally Posted by Klatu
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I know. Unfortunately, the inflated expectations were a result of my own misunderstanding. Learning that monel was made of an alloy containing nickel, I posted the question of whether it would be compatible with magnetic pickups and was told that it would. Originally Posted by oldane
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The only pictures I have of it online are some pictures a guy took of it to model his pick guards. Originally Posted by Joe DeNisco
When Roger Borys saw the pick guard, he almost puked, so I had him put on a pick guard that he thought was more appropriate. Here are a bunch of pictures the guy took with his cheesy pick guard a few years ago:
https://vintagepickguardsforsale.shutterfly.com/448
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