Ibanez 2355 - Real or Fake?

**tomassplatch** · 02-21-2012, 08:21 AM

Hello everybody,
I'm about to buy a guitar, the seller sais it's Ibanez 2355, no SN, so pre-1975. However, the headstock inlay is not original and it is only stuck on the guitar - apparently the head was changed or repaint. So I suppose it is a cheaper copy of 2355... Can anyone identify the guitar or give me any clues? Here are the photos:

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**korey-craft** · 02-21-2012, 09:36 AM

no serial nuumber to look up? or did they say if it was repaired or repainted?

**tomassplatch** · 02-21-2012, 09:44 AM

thanks for the answer. there is no sticker on the inside of the guitar and no SN on the back of the headstock. However, the guitar seems to have been repaired, because the painting on the headstock doesn't match the neck. The ibanez logo and the frog symbol are not abalon inlayed, only stuck on the surface.

**korey-craft** · 02-21-2012, 09:49 AM

well, is the price a "steal" or is it a fair price for the instrument if it was in great shape. Also, anything you could spend that money on and get something similar? something you could purchase with more confidence, aka less worry

**tomassplatch** · 02-21-2012, 10:12 AM

the price is 800€ and the guitar has a killer gibsonesque sound

**Franz 1997** · 02-21-2012, 10:39 AM

The factory that made Ibanez guitars of that period also made similar guitars with other brand names, or none, so from a utility point of view it might not make any difference. However Ibanez-branded models do tend to go for more money. The pickups look like the generic maxon units of that era, rather than the ibanez-branded models. The headstock might not be that important; some early 70s ibanez models had nailed-on logos, which easily fell off.
I'd assume it probably isn't a ''real'' ibanez, but that it is a similar model in quality terms, and decide if it's worth 800 euros on its merits. Not a bad price, but not a great price either. AS for sound and playability, Ibanez and similar japanese copies play and sound as well as real 175s, with the right pickups, IMO.

**ruiner54** · 02-21-2012, 12:11 PM

I might be stating the obvious....but that would have to be a lawsuit Ibanez (or a copy of one)....so a copy of a copy.

**ruiner54** · 02-21-2012, 12:42 PM

Here's a picture of one that looks really close from ibanezcollectors.com

VINTAGE1973 IBANEZ 2355 ES-175 COPY LAWSUIT

**supermaxx** · 02-21-2012, 04:50 PM

If you're interested I've got a pre-serial# 2355 that I've been planning on selling. It has a pearloid Ibanez logo, Gibson style headstock, looks like spruce top. Pretty mint condition. Looking for $1100 shipped. Not sure what the one you were looking at is going for, but shoot me a PM if you have any interest of just want more details to compare.

**tomassplatch** · 02-21-2012, 05:24 PM

Hello supermaxx, thanks! Check your inbox, I sent you a PM for discussing your beautiful guitar!

If you have a detailed hi-res photos of your guitar, I would very much appreciate. I am particularly interested in following details:
- kerfing or no kerfing inside
- the wood that seems a little bit thicker than usually
- the sides are painted in "sunburst" dark brown/violet and not plain wood on my guitar
- a heel in the neck / one piece neck
- cables and electronics inside (if you manage, I have a grey-plastic modern cable with digital numbers on it, so it seems there were some modifications)
- angle between the neck and the headstock (profile photo)
- the top wood of my guitar seems very little arched, apparently less then a Gibson 175, almost a flat-top
- detail of the pickup (maybe a photo of it from the interior side, if you manage

Thank you for your effort!

**supermaxx** · 02-21-2012, 05:40 PM

I'll see if I can answer a few of these.

- There is kerfing on the inside top and bottom.
- Sides and back of neck are plain mahogany.
- neck is two pieces and the bottom of the heel is another piece.
- pickup leads and wires are silver braided cable

Here's a link with some more pictures, hope it helps a bit.

FS: early 70s Ibanez 2355 (es175)

**pierre richard** · 02-21-2012, 07:15 PM

the pic you see is exactly the same as mine...

mine has a serial number on the top back of the headstock ending in 77....I found out years ago from the factory and guitar gurus it is a 1977 ...

what a great sound it has..If I was in the market I would buy another..but 100% original...of course...

I found that out when I sold my 1962 Stratocaster...non original bridges...replaced two pickups sine 1962...refinished..(lost a couple of grand right there)...nuff said..

time on the instrument..pierre

**tomassplatch** · 02-22-2012, 12:10 AM

@pierre: could you give me any info about your guitar please? Are the sides and neck mahagony finish or coloured? Do you have kerfing inside (les renforts entre la table et le cote)? What is the cablework inside like? Plastic or silver braided?

**Little Jay** · 02-22-2012, 03:25 AM

Since Ibanez guitars have always been made in various factories, you can find many differences between them. It's very hard to date a specific Ibanez solely on it's features like hardware, inlays, etc. There are just to many variations! I have even seen differences in body-shape and construction.

Yours just looks like a typical Japanese guitar from that period. It might have been a more budget model from one of the factories that produced for Ibanez with the Ibanez-name added later?

It looks like a beautiful guitar though and if it sounds and plays well than 800 bucks is not bad in the current market.

**Little Jay** · 02-22-2012, 03:29 AM

Oh and I have a Japanese Condor-guitar, that shares many Ibanez-features, but has no kerfings and no bracing even! Just a staple under the bridge. And the top doesn't even show signs of collapsing ;-)

Many good guitars were made in that period, even the low budget ones like Condor, Yamato, Fresher, Maya..... many many names...

**tomassplatch** · 02-22-2012, 03:57 AM

@Little Jay:
Thanks, sorry, a staple? Wow, never seen that

Does the interior look like this? (two photos from under the bridge of the guitar):

https://picasaweb.google.com/1100725...22901672209122
https://picasaweb.google.com/1100725...22924082319762

**Little Jay** · 02-22-2012, 04:38 AM

Nope! No paralel braces to support the top in mine!

I have no pics at hand, but at the Ibanez forum a guy had an exact same one. There's also a pic of the staple ('piece of wood between top and bottom'): Ibanez Collectors World: Ibanez? ES175 Copy - is this the proper thread?

**Little Jay** · 02-22-2012, 04:58 AM

Btw, the Condor is a very fine guitar, that I bought some 3 years ago for €150(!) and I'm pretty sure it comes out of one of the Ibanez factories. So in essence it's an Ibanez with a different name on the headstock. The quality of the electronics was not up to par with that of Ibanez though, as was the quality of the tuners, inlays and finish. So apparently that is where they cut corners.

I read your post again and now I noticed you wrote that the Ibanez logo on the headstock is a sticker. In that case changes are that it wasn't originally sold under the Ibanez-brand (no-names were made for the export-market and could get any name!). That doesn't make the guitar any less quality-wise, but it should lower the resale value (Ibanez is overpriced compaired to other Japanes copies imho).

Also check if the pickups are really humbuckers. The pickups of my Condor were single coils disquised as humbuckers (the sounded pretty good though...).

**tomassplatch** · 02-22-2012, 05:07 AM

thanks, I plugged the guitar to an lamp amp with distortion and there was no humming at all. is it enough to say that the pups are humbuckers? or do I have to remove the cover to be really sure?

**Little Jay** · 02-22-2012, 06:53 AM

If you tick with something metal (like the tip of a jackplug) you should be able to find out quickly: if it's a single coil then there's no magnetism in the 'empty part' of the pick up (you will feel that) and it sounds empty when you tick it.

**tomassplatch** · 02-22-2012, 07:47 AM

yes, they are humbuckers

**tomassplatch** · 02-22-2012, 08:09 AM

More info on the headstock modification:
I think it's genuine, but that the back of the headstock and neck have been refinished to mask the old holes of the old tuners - I can now see the holes left from the old tuners!

**tomassplatch** · 02-22-2012, 03:43 PM

some guys here just demonstrated that is was a fake, because of the asymetric disposition of the knobs. thaks everyone for help, be carefull when buying vintage copies

Ibanez 2355 - legit or fake?

**tomassplatch** · 02-23-2012, 03:25 AM

More and more bad surprises with this guitar... The pickguard is extremely cheap - only one piece of plastic, no plies. Theply is fake, it is just white colour painted on the side of the plastic.

The truss rod protector has different shape and screw positions are different from all es 175 copies I have seen on the internet.

THere are modern-looking wires inside, as you can see from this photo:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1100725...03660316323314
They go from the switcher to knobs. Best guess is that the switch or some electronics were changed, or that the guitar is newer than the seller claims. These cables can't be original I guess.

At the same time, the interior looks hand-made, see the traces of pencil and glue in the interior:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1100725...22901672209122

Can anyone help me track the origine of the guitar? Does the openbook headstock necessarily mean it is pre-1975? What can the age of the guitar be? I was thinking of 80' Greco copies, but they truss rod covers use only 2 screws from what I have seen.

Thanks everyone for helping!