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Other than the amazing sound of the Parker(I think it was a Parker) flat top that Jim Soloway put up is anyone getting a nice warm tone out of a flat top? I have often wondered what a flat top with F holes and a set humbucker would sound like. It seems that most flat tops are extremely bright, at least to my one fully functioning ear, and not really suited for jazz unless you go the route of Gene Bertoncini and use nylon strings. That certainly takes the edge off the brightness but I would not call that tone warm either. Highly articulate YES but not warm.
Is it possible to get that warm sterotypical jazz tone from a flat top?
'Mike
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02-09-2012 12:27 PM
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Take a listen to Julian Lage playing jazz on a Martin D-18.
It may not be as warm as you are looking for, but certainly shows that flat tops are not exclusively for open chords for blue grass/folk music.
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I get that you can play jazz on any guitar. BUT I guess my question is can you get that warm smokey jazz tone out of a flat top?
'Mike
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Sure. I put D'Addario half rounds on my flat top, I put a Duncan '59 in the soundhole and it's warm, plays like an archtop through the amp. I don't know about smokey though, it doesn't seem to exacerbate my asthma or cut down on air quality in the room so I'd say at best it's partly cloudy with a 5-10 mile visibility.
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It feels like when I use the right pick or fingering technique and play the same music that I play on my archtop, I get a very mellow, warm, jazzy sound out of my beat-up old dread. By the same token, it can also sound very "classical" on classic Spanish stuff. May just be my imagination, but it seems that way to me.
The all mahogany Martin D-15M gets an incredibly huge warm sound, and I would guess would be a good flattop for playing jazz on.
PS: I get great results on Silk & Steel strings.Last edited by Retroman1969; 02-09-2012 at 02:57 PM.
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Love it when a fellow masshole shows up! haha I honestly laughed pretty hard. Thanks.
I may have to slowly investigate things with my luthier...
'Mike
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Warm--sure...Smoky? I dunno, I associate that tone with electric guitars.
I didn't hear anything smoky about the Parker (which is an archtop)--crystal clear is what I heard.
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Smokey tone? It should be a flatop that has been extensively played at campfire....
Originally Posted by Jazzman301
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To clarify I am thinking a flat top with a HB of some sort. Maybe F holes as opposed to a sound hole. A flat top electric whose purpose built to be played elecric.
Mr.B I would agree with you. I thought the Parker had more warmth than most flat tops but was crystal clear. I thought the clip Jim Soloway posted was a flat top...hmmn.
'Mike
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I agree with Mr. Beaumont that every track I've heard Mr. Soloway play has been super clean and bright compared to the "blanket over amp" type of jazz tone.
Also, "flat top" with F holes? Are you talking about an electric guitar like a Tele. To me, "flat top" guitars speak to acoustic guitars like a Martin D or other body size.
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I stand corrected. Jim was playing Yo Yo which is indeed and archtop.
'Mike
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Everyone talks about a warm smoky tone, but I've always preferred a hot smelly sound...basically like you get from a dead raccoon in a garbage can after three or four days during hot weather.
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There you go. Does SD make a pickup for that?
'Mike
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No, but the Bare Knuckles Suppurating Ulcer single coils are highly regarded. Originally Posted by Jazzman301
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How do we quantify "smoky" anyway?
Some of the tone words guitar players use are hilarious..."buttery," "smoky," "warm,"--sounds like we're describing barbeque.
My favorite is a cat I know who says his Gibson acousic sounds "honey glazed."
Ewww.
But to be fair, when somebody says "warm smoky tone" I do know what they're talking about...
I still consider it to be an electric tone. You can get it with a solid body electric, a semi hollow, a full hollow...
As for a flat top with F holes or something, as long as it had the humbucker and you used some flats, maybe, you'd get there...but a flattop acoustic is it's own thing...I'm not sure why we'd want to do something else with it...
As an aside, gypsy jazz guitars are sort of like flat tops...with a little archie mixed in...nothing smoky there...hot and spicy, though!
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This flat top had a smokey tone when we got through with it.
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haha Its true musicians definately use food descriptors to describe sound. When I studied with Yusef he used to describe things as colors. "Take it from things get red and play the yellow section twice this time..."
I guess its the best way I can describe what I mean. I feel like if you reference Wes or Jim Hall or whoever you always get cats who rip you up for "wanting to sound like" this person or that. So I use barbecue descriptors and we all conjure what that sounds like to each of us and respond accordingly.
'Mike
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Not sure you could make a flat top with proper f-holes. Real archtops don't have any of those cross braces like a flat top. Flat tops have braces in all the wrong places.
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When I hear the term, "warm smoky tone", I get an image of a small club with a sweet smelling haze in the air. Admittedly, for many, that image is a thing of the past having been replaced by a small club with clean air and the chocolaty smell of peanut butter balls.
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I don't think f holes are an issue anyway. If they were, it would seem they would also be essential on an archtop hollowbody jazz box. Originally Posted by kamlapati
But they are not, as anyone who has played a Gibson Howard Roberts with a round sound hole can attest. There is not very much tonal difference between the H.R. and an ES-175.
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Originally Posted by SearchForMeaning
hahaha
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On a more serious note, I think if you had a folk style acoustic that would probably do it. I have an old yamaha FG-150 red label from the late 60's it has a nice "warm" tone to it. I am no jazz guitarist (yet? LOL) but I am learning, when I practice unplugged I use that guitar. It seems to have a nice focused sound. I plan on throwing a humbucker into a "feed back buster" aka sound hole cover. Maybe you should try that too? It will be some time for me but if you have some odds and ends kicking around why not? Mounting the humbucker to the cover of course won't wreck the guitar. I'm sure it will work with the proper wiring.
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I was using a Guild D55 for a while strung up with Silk n Steels. It wasn't Kenny Burrell smokey but it got me through until I had the money for what I actually wanted. But as always the key there is understand what you really want and go get that instead of trying to make something do what it's not really designed to do, which is always a compromise...
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Kenney Burell has recorded with a flat top. Check out ST. Thomas on A LA Carte, duet with a bass player, and see if you like that sound.
Otherwise, more smoke from a Gibson J-45 with a humbucker and tone control, plenty of carcinogenic vibe but probably not much clean headroom.
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Thanks, Cosmic Gumbo.....now I realize why Jimi Hendrix carried lighter fluid in his hip pocket at his concerts..... :^)
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