Specialty and Boutique Amps are they really worth it.

[stevedenver]

a few years back i was in an 'amp phase'-
in which i began to really focus and work on amps

and i worked and re-worked a number of my amps, since i began to learn about them

first
they are indeed complicated, and like a guitar, there are many little components that shape the sound-caps, tubes, speakers, transformers

i will say, generally, that for those add-ons (versus stock) that sounded best to my ears-i had to pay more

especially with tubes

and speakers-perhaps the single most important component -quality and how they color the sound-british or american, etc

as for the value, thats subjective


on a not so nice sounding marshall
i changed the speaker in a marshall JCM 800 50w 1x12, and then added a NOS mullard in the first stage gain-then changed the voicing a bit with experimenting with different caps-

the amp went from unpleasant and brittle to amazingly musical and 'that marshall celestion sound' we love in classic rock-the speaker change being the single most critical factor


on a kit tweed deluxe versus a boutique
i did a side by side comparision however of a mission 5e3 (tweed deluxe) with a weber blue dog alnico and NOS tubes

with a modern Victoria 5e3-stock, non designer tubes and jenson speaker

the vict was 3x the cost of the mission kit with all the upgraded speakers and tubes-

to my ear there was no comparision, the mission with the weber absolutely smoking the vic
again the main factor being the speaker imho


in terms of amplified guitar-i tend to think that the amp actually has as much, and perhaps more, impact than the guitar
this is not smoke and mirrors-amps do make a difference
and how they are built and with what changes the sound, as well as the method-
but then again , when playing with others, soem of these might become less noticeable-
but i find if i llike my sound, it energizes and inspires me

point to point is a lot easier to modify and repair than printed board

and some amps, simply are limited or overbuilt-like matchless , and you pay a great deal more -and often they do have a distinctive sound

to my ear-these
nicer more expensive amps, for rock at least, really do merit the price

for clean sounds, i tend to find most fenders, when properly biasedand with nicer tubes and sometimes with a new speaker, are great


bottom line is we all buy what we more or less can afford and work with it
that being the case, i dont own any high end boutique amps, but choose to build clones with high end components -sound great and very satisfying-and sometimes you actually do save some money too-
eg, trainwreck express clone with a custom made gorgeous figured cherry head cab-all told with tubes, custom tranny and 350 worth of cab , about 1200-a lot less than the real deal

[rickshapiro]

Something else to toss into the equation ... I no longer use a conventional amp at all. Instead, I use a modeler (a Line 6 Pod HD desktop unit) into a powered full range cabinet. I'm able to use the modeler to dial in exactly the amp response I want and in theory the cabinet just makes the signal louder. After about 9 months I'm still messing around a bit with the cabinet but I'm thrilled with the signal I get from the modeler. It's much easier to record than a conventional amplifier and the modeler itself is about the size of a large book. Even with the powered cab, it's a very light weight solution. The cost for the whole rig is about $1100 (or less depending on the cabinet). As with amplifiers, there are a lot of choices and different price levels but this setup works very well for me.

Jim,

Thank you for saving me tons of money on this. I decided to revisit my PodHD 500 and my two JBL PRX612Ms. I was considering an AE/RE combo but no more. The PODs Blackface and Bassman sound great with my semi-hollow and archtop. I just had to play with the different speaker emulations to find the right one that sounded right with the JBLs. Add a little room and I was good to go. What is nice is I can run mono or stereo depending on the gig, the stereo reverb does sound nice. The speakers are powered and a 1000 watts each. They only weigh 34 pounds each and are easy to carry and position. There is no hiss and I can play at any level and sound virtually the same.

I've been using the pod and speakers for my rock band. I play primarily 80% keys and 20% guitar. Bringing a guitar amp to these gigs was just too much so I have everything going through this rig. Most of the guitar work for the rock band is Marshall emulation (both clean and very dirty) I just never really thought it would work so well for Jazz. This rig cost me $1200 for the speaker pair and $400 for the POD500. Thanks again Jim.

[Gilpy]

Are those outragously expensive amps worth it? Do they really sound better?
I just spent $1700 on a USED Carr Rambler. That's a lot more than I wanted to pay for an amp.
I just couldn't find anything else that sounded as good (to me), is powerful enough for any gig, and that I can actually pick up and carry with one hand. When I find a piece of equipment that fits my needs perfectly, I try to find a way to buy it, even if it hurts.
Some "boutique" amps seem to be voiced to give a great sound in the living room, but don't hold together at gig volume. As a pro player, that seems like a waste of money to me, but to a serious player who doesn't gig (and can afford it) maybe it makes sense.
I certainly don't think a high priced amp is a neccessity. The audience couldn't care less. There are plenty of great sounding options out there that anybody can afford.
It's not easy to compare amps unless you have them sitting right next to each other and try them with the same guitar. Of course you can tell if one sounds bad and the other great, but that's about it.

[Jim Soloway]

Jim,

Thank you for saving me tons of money on this. I decided to revisit my PodHD 500 and my two JBL PRX612Ms. I was considering an AE/RE combo but no more. The PODs Blackface and Bassman sound great with my semi-hollow and archtop. I just had to play with the different speaker emulations to find the right one that sounded right with the JBLs. Add a little room and I was good to go. What is nice is I can run mono or stereo depending on the gig, the stereo reverb does sound nice. The speakers are powered and a 1000 watts each. They only weigh 34 pounds each and are easy to carry and position. There is no hiss and I can play at any level and sound virtually the same.

I've been using the pod and speakers for my rock band. I play primarily 80% keys and 20% guitar. Bringing a guitar amp to these gigs was just too much so I have everything going through this rig. Most of the guitar work for the rock band is Marshall emulation (both clean and very dirty) I just never really thought it would work so well for Jazz. This rig cost me $1200 for the speaker pair and $400 for the POD500. Thanks again Jim.

Well done Rick. It's a great real world solution. I was in Anaheim this past weekend for a NAMM show related event and someone brought me one of Ken Parker's magnificent archtops to try. It sounded fantastic through the Pod HD just using my standard patch with no tweaks. They came back the next day, with Ken Parker and I did a recording using the Pod direct to my Mac and it did a great job. A $30,000 guitar and I was running it through a $400 signal path and everyone was thrilled (and a bit shocked) with the results.

[Keira Witherkay]

it all depends on what you call a boutique amp.......

anyway the 1st step is to identify what tone/sound you want /expect then once you know what you like............say like for argument sake an original 65 Fender princeton reverb tone ...you can shop around either for a vintage original, a reissue by the same company .......or find a custom amp builder who can get you that tone...in a custom build and maybe tweak it a bit more to your liking

the great thing if you into tube amps and old ones with point to point designed circuits you can change mod the amp to your desired tone.....

so maybe consider a custom build of the sound you like.......... you can put in all top end components and tweaked/voiced to your liking with the speaker you prefer ...........

so like i opened the post with do you mean by boutique amps..just the ones commercially available ...then i say if it blows you away it's worth the money ....or do you mean a custom designed amp built by a reputabe amp builder but to your spec and requirements (basically a one off) then it's definitely worth the money to get exactly what you want ........but thats of course assuming you know what you want ??

btw a custom built tube amp is not that expensive and is cheaper than a lot of commercially available options and you talking putting prob better components into it than say some mass producers of amps ....

[Synchro]

I am just wondering if this boutique market is more hype then substance.

IMHO, yes, much of it is. I've played some great boutique amps but still can find a very decent timbre with mass-produced amps.

That's a question a philosopher couldn't answer, and it's far above the pay grade of guitar players.

It's the same question posed by the "vintage" sound.

I would point to some experiments conducted with various Stradivari instruments, wherein leading experts could not consistently identify whether or not the instrument being played was a Stradivarius or of contemporary construction when a curtain blocked their view.

That doesn't surprise me a bit.

Expensive wine and cheap plonk taste the same to most people | Science | The Guardian. I wonder if this is the same with amps.

Likewise this. Perception is reality and a lot of people taste, listen, etc, with their eyes.

A lot of guitar players think differently too. There are very much two schools of thought on this. The first school think of the guitar as basically an acoustic instrument and they believe that the sole job of an amp is to make the guitar louder without modifying it's basic tone. The second school are those who consider the guitar to be an electric instrument, and that an amp is part of the signal chain, interacting with and modifying the tone of the guitar. That's not marketing, that's real. Neither is right or wrong. They just have a different approach and require different tools as a result.

Great points. I used to play a Johnny Smith, a very acoustic biased instrument. I found that I preferred to sound of a more electric sounding archtop not to mention the feedback resistance of a laminate guitar.

.... and depends on the power of the "believe engine" too....

Very much so.

Something I've learned from watching Antiques Roadshow: a person's aesthetic appreciation for something will change soley based on someone else putting a high dollar value on it.

Yep!

Very true. I recently was shopping for a new jazz guitar. I was very intrigued with the whole carved archtop beauties with floating pickups, but I soon realized the sound I prefer is an electric one, so I went with a laminated guitar with routed pickups, and couldn't be happier. I also like the the colored tone that tube amps provide.

I used to think that it took a certain amount of distortion to be a real electric guitar sound, but my thinking has turned aorund 180 degrees.

When I was a wise old man of 17 or so I was told that if I wanted to be a real Jazz guitarist I needed a solid-wood archtop with a floating pickup. Five years later I bought a Johnny Smith and it was not at all what I needed. It was feedback prone and delicate. Noce guitar, but for my needs not the right guitar.


I play Gretsch guitars a lot of the time and can find a very credible Jazz sound from them. Many name players used laminate guitars such as ES-175s and sounded great. I love a nice solid wood archtop but in the real world they have their limitations and many people end up playing laminates. It's not strictly a cost saving measure.

I found out that Joe Pass' road guitar was a D'Aquisto Jazz Line, a laminate, 16" archtop that could take the wear and tear of the road and handle large concert venues without excessive feedback. That was enough to convince me.

[jorgemg1984]

Man thanks for that link, I will read it tomorrow! (I love my laminate but two funny things: it still feedbacks a lot and has a big acoustic sound...)

[Synchro]

Man thanks for that link, I will read it tomorrow! (I love my laminate but two funny things: it still feedbacks a lot and has a big acoustic sound...)

It's hard to predict. My Gretsch Country Club has a solid top but little acoustic volume and great feedback resistance. I once had a Gretsch G 3161 laminate that could feedback with the amp off.

[jorgemg1984]

I once had a Gretsch G 3161 laminate that could feedback with the amp off.

Just gave a good laugh with this sentence. I don't have that many experience with archtops unfortunatelly because they are rare here (specially the good ones). But I love the sound of my Guild and that's more important than feedback (I have some plugs that kill it if I really need).

I think it depends on the guitar desgin, amp, room, player placement, band volume... In my experience the amp is the most important part, I have zero feedback with some amps and lots of feedback with others with the same room, volume, placement and guitar.

[Synchro]

Just gave a good laugh with this sentence. I don't have that many experience with archtops unfortunatelly because they are rare here (specially the good ones). But I love the sound of my Guild and that's more important than feedback (I have some plugs that kill it if I really need).

I think it depends on the guitar desgin, amp, room, player placement, band volume... In my experience the amp is the most important part, I have zero feedback with some amps and lots of feedback with others with the same room, volume, placement and guitar.

The number of factors involved make it incalculable IMO. The biggest difference in my experience was the position of the amp. If I put my amp on a chair and kept my torso between the speaker and the guitar matters improved greatly.

[jorgemg1984]

I agree but I have tried two amps in the exact same postition (same guitar, same volume) and one feedback much more than the other (I think open-back vs closed-back also matter here and it was the case). But I agree with you - amp placement is very important in that matter!

[Synchro]

I agree but I have tried two amps in the exact same postition (same guitar, same volume) and one feedback much more than the other (I think open-back vs closed-back also matter here and it was the case). But I agree with you - amp placement is very important in that matter!

Closed vs open back can make quite a difference. There are so many, many factors at work that I wouldn't even try to figure it all out. I think that the venue is the biggest unknown. Even a door being open or closed can have a minor effect on how much sound is bouncing back to your guitar and the size of the crowd has a very noticeable effect.

Then there's playing out of doors. That's a whole 'nother world.

[jorgemg1984]

Agreed - that's why I always carry the plugs

[Tech21NYC]

Right now I have a Verve FBT 8ma. At standard pitch, it has more clean volume and headroom than a Princeton Reverb and there's no fan (a must for me). My big complaint is that I also like to play tuned down a full step and it won't handle the low end of that at all. When I started, I had a QSC K8. It sounded great and handled the low end better but I leaned to HATE the fan. I also tried the Tech 21 Power Engine 60. Nice concept but way too much hiss.

There shouldn't be any hiss. It sounds like you might have had a gain staging problem. How high up were you running the level control on the Power Engine? My band is pretty loud and I've never turned the level above 12 o'clock.

Here is a video of Doug Doppler playing the Pod HD through the Power Engine. He demos some clean sounds at around 44 seconds in and there is no hiss.