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You confuse tone with technique. If GB played a strat through a cheap amp, his technique would be immediately indentifiable, but, his tone would not. This thread is discussing tone, not technique. But, I agree with your point, "It is certainly not only the guitar that matters". Further to your point, George Benson has various "tones". Usually they vary by guitar type more than anything else. He's been playing his signature Ibanez guitars more than anything else lately. But, we've all heard him on D'Angelicos, Guilds, Gibsons and various other guitars. In fact, I can't remember the song, or the venue . . . but, I do remember him playing a beautiful Gibson Johnny Smith. My first reaction to his tone was . . . Holy Shit!!! I had a hard time focusing on his lines because the tone he was achieving was so wonderful. Which brings up another point. I would imaging that GB adjusts his playing *somewhat* based upon the guitar he's playing and the tone he wants to achieve with it.
Originally Posted by thomas
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01-05-2012 12:18 PM
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Hi Patrick !
I do not refer to technique - I think the tone is more than the addition of gear.
It comes from your fingers, your experience and the way you think.
Just remember the recordings of Bireli Lagrene playing a solid body - it`s incredible - it`s the same t o n e .
Thomas
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Sure, I agree that one could get a similar tone from some solid body guitars as they would from some arch tops. But, your analogy of the strat and cheap amp was way off. Just as your statement about Bireli LaGrene. I don't even know the comparisons you are speaking of, but, I can say with confidence that I would be more comfortable with comparisons of the two as "similar tone" . . than I am with your claim that they are the "same tone". Semantics? Possibly. But, to me similar, and same are clearly different designations. Originally Posted by thomas
There are soooooo many things that affect and influence tone that I won't even begin to enumerate. But, we do agree that of all the things that might influence, affect and create tone . . . the player is number 1 on the list. Also, the attitude or mood that a certain guitar might cause a player to have. Example; there are many You Tube videos of Larry Carlton. If you can find two, one where he is playing his 1957 Les Paul gold top and another where is is playing his original ES335. . . . just listen to how differently he plays each guitar. Each of them provides its own set of motivating characteristics. Similar with George Benson. I would say that GB is more instantly recognizable by his technique and style, than he is by his tone . . . even though his tone is a direct result of his technique and style. OK . . . now I'm even starting to confuse myself here. I'm gonna go have lunch!!!
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It's a bit too cliché to say any guitar hero will sound the same not matter the rig he would have in hands.
I remember Robert Fripp in an interview stating he tried the Stratocaster once and quickly found it was not for him. A musician will deliver his best if he feels confident about his art and gear.
Could you imagine Jim hall playing a Strat....
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I agree, Originally Posted by mambosun
a great player remain a great even with bad gear;
but when he has the right gear, than is heaven:a great guitar inspires better lines, I believe.
there is a video on youtube that is a compilation of george benson video and it is about the picking technique: he palys a GB10, an L5, a d'angelico and so on; and sometimes you say "nice" but sometimes you say "wow": the wow is when lines are with a great tone.
I have the cd "standards" where bireli plays a solid body I believe: to me, it is not as great as when he plays an L-5...
at the end, I believe that a great gear is a big part of a great recording.
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Well . . . I, for one will not take issue with anyone who has "Luca" as any part of their name Originally Posted by gianluca
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I've seen videos of him using Dunlop jazz picks. not fender mediums. they are the little ones with the pointy tips. but at the end of the day, who knows and who really cares. it aint in the picks, its in the licks, folks. so stop trying picks and go figure out a solo.
those old Ibanez JS do have a very GB type sound. of all the guitars Ive owned that was the closest i have come. at the end of the day though, i didn't do everything i wanted. a little too bright.
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"It's all Good"
Yes George Benson may have been using the Dunlop pick in a video but he usually uses a medium pick.
This is what George told me personally when he played my guitar. (This was back around 1977.) My guitar had a lighter gauge set a strings strings than he was used to...he said - " Somethings got to be heavy. If you use light gauge strings then you need a heavy pick - if you use heavy strings then a lighter pick will work."
He was saying this in relationship to accuracy. Using a light pick with light gauge strings - there's a lot of stuff flapping around and accuracy is lost.
George uses heavy strings so he uses a medium pick.
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I have a GB10 and a Wes model L5 - usually like to use the Pro-plec 1.5s for arch top playing, but much more of the Benson tone is there with a medium gauge (.73?) Dunlop than with the warmer sound of the Pro-Plec. I tried it after reading one of the above interviews with George somewhere, and lo and behold, the tone appeared. I have 13s on the GB10 and 12s on the L5. I think a good 175 with 12s or 13s should get you there, with a medium gauge pick and lots of practice
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look. stop worrying about getting his tone. benson got his tone by himself. he didn't copy tal farlow, joe pass,grant green, johhny smith, hank garland, charlie christian or even wes. he got his own tone. the world isnt waiting to hear another george benson. its waiting to hear you. Corny Huh.
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George Benson most certainly doesn't use Jazz III picks; Medium Fender it is, which can easily be seen in videos. And heard too, imo -can't get that snap with a Jazz III...
Originally Posted by mattymel
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GB used his D'Angelico New Yorker with a floating DeArmond pickup for "The Shadow Of Your Smile", probably through a Polytone (not the small one, more like a twin). He used that guitar for Body Talk, Bad Benson and Live At Carnegie Hall. Here's a clip feating that guitar (which he bought for $1000...)
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These are the picks that GB uses.
ibanez george benson picks | eBay
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When I saw Benson playing live in the early and middle 70s he used a Gibson Johnny Smith. That's probably what's on the '72 cut.
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George's Gibson JS with which he recorded Breezing', now at the Phoenix Musical Instrument Museum:
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No guitar, no string set, no amp, no setup will make you sound like Benson. You will still sound like you normally sound.
Compared to that last vid, Benson's tone on this vid sucks:
That's not what you want to sound like!
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Try to get one good sound and be yourself. That's the way.
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I wish I could sound that bad tone or chop-wise... Originally Posted by kenbennett
:-/
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I remember my disappointment about his "new tone" which contained more artificial effects than i can appreciate, when in the late eighties GB's album Tenderly was released. Soon after that he was touring with the McCoy Tyner Trio playing some of the titles from Tenderly. His live sound then (from the period of this vid) was not as processed as on the album and allowed him to cut through everything. Altough it's not my favorite i can appreciate the clarity of it and hear some warmth in the midrange in spite of the fact that it appears rather thin. Originally Posted by kenbennett
Last edited by JazzNote; 03-11-2016 at 12:44 PM.
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I saw GB live in '74, '75, and twice in '76. In '74 he was playing the sunburst D'Angelico New Yorker. In '75 he was playing the natural finish D'A New Yorker that you can see in the Downbeat All Stars video. This is the guitar he used on the "Bad Benson" album. Archtop Guitars, New Yorker models, 1958, 1959 | Guitar Heroes | The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York
In an interview in "Vintage Guitar" 6 years ago GB said that a lot of his recordings on CTI were done on a Guild X-500 and he indicated in "Guitar Player" the same year that "Giblet Gravy" ("Blue Benson" and "Compact Jazz") were also the X-500.
Back to the OP's question, I think we would all be speculating as to what guitar Benson played on the live recording of "The Shadow Of Your Smile." It's kind of hard to tell what year it was recorded because it was from a sampler recording...possibly the early '70s. If that's the case it could be a D'A, a Guild AA, or a Gibson. The JS Gibson and the Polytone 104 don't show up until 1975-1976, the "Breezin" period. The amp on "Shadow" is probably a Twin.
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I, too, would guess that the amp on "Shadow" is probably a Fender Twin Reverb. I think that Benson didn't start using Polytones until aroung '78.
I think he sounds pretty good on the "Stella" clip. I think he is using a Polytone 104 in the clip and the Ibanez replacement for his JS. Same guitar strap as always. ;-)
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I'm not sure about the strap, there is a big difference in tone between leather and woven backing.... then there are the overlays, stainless for sustain or alloy for highs? The man is a master of nuance after all.....
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and above all we don't know if any secret materials are hidden somewhere in-between the layers of leather Originally Posted by Cavalier
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This is true, there even may be a need for material secrecy, some textiles can upset people. Years ago playing in a hippy jam band I was accosted for using cow hide for my straps "totally uncool man!" I replied that I planned to Dally in Llama and things didn't go well..... Originally Posted by JazzNote
I now use a natural material that has the comfort and feel I like as well as the tonal response I need for selectively damping certain harmonic overtones... it looks just like my old leather strap.
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how sad is that statement... Originally Posted by kenbennett
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