Gretsch 5120 Electromatic for Jazz

[raylinds]

I like to occasionally fool around with Duane Eddie style pop guitar instrumentals, so when I got the opportunity to purchase a Chet Atkins Gretsch for a good price I grabbed it. The guitar riff from the James Bond theme sounds cool on it. I love the guitar.

I've recently been thinking about trying it out for jazz, but haven't done it yet. I'll have to give it a try.

Dan Duffy,
Thanks you for your very interesting posts- I will be ordering your book.

[dan duffy]

The guitar should give you a great jazz sound. I have a 1960 Country club and it is great. Just use the fingerboard pickup and a very little reverb. adjust the tone on the amp NOT the guitar. This always worked for me. My book has a few pages of CHORD Structures that was taught to me by Hy White. I studied with him in1954-55. A good teacher. Many studied with him back then. Study this and you will cut any Jazz chart. Good Luck - Dan

[oldane]

The guitar should give you a great jazz sound. I have a 1960 Country club and it is great. Just use the fingerboard pickup and a very little reverb. adjust the tone on the amp NOT the guitar. This always worked for me. My book has a few pages of CHORD Structures that was taught to me by Hy White. I studied with him in1954-55. A good teacher. Many studied with him back then. Study this and you will cut any Jazz chart. Good Luck - Dan

Dan, I bought your book at Amazon in December and it was an enjoyable read in the quiet X-mas days.

I have a Gretsch New Yorker from 1961. It plays and sounds quite good despite having a laminated top (which is much thinner than the laminated top on my Gibson 175 -also from 1961) and it's still in good shape after all those years. The neck is not adjustable, but it is just fine with a tad of relief and have been very stable in the 20 years I have had it. The bindings are still in good condition (not too much binding on this cheaper model, though). It's amusing to think that you have actually had your hands on my guitar.

I agree to setting the tone on the amp (and maybe on an external preamp/EQ). The all important mid range and the taming of the bass can't be controlled sufficiently by just rolling off treble on the guitar. I use to set the tone control on the guitar to 7 or 8 (out of ten) and then shape the tone on the amp. With the tone character set, I can then add or subtract a little top shimmer with the guitars tone control as as the situation and the given room demands, but here I'm mostly stying within a narrow range of +/-½ (still out of ten).

I must admit that except for my New Yorker I haven't had my hands on Gretsch guitars for many years, but I tried some second hand samples from the 1950s and 1960s back in the 1970s and 1980s. I found it easy enough to get my idea of a good classic jazz tone with a couple of Country Clubs and also with a White Falcon. That was with both the older D'Armond PUs and Filtertrons. I don't think anyone could tell if it was a Gretsch, a Gibson or something else if a blindfold test had been made(well, maybe you could, Dan, because you knew those Gretsches inside out).

[dan duffy]

Hey the White Falcon had a Great sound -- Here's a story . Back in the early 60's I had a Gig in a club called THE DESERERE (a French word for DESERT) I looked it up. The club had live ACTS. I usually had contracts in clubs for six weeks - 3 or 4 nights a week. One week they had a Female vocalist '. Her name was Meg Myles. The 1st night it was raining out. She came walking up to the bandstand wearing her raincoat and hat. She looked like she belonged on the TV show The Greatest Catch. She asked "are you the guitar player --can you read? most of you can't ! I said "I can" She handed me some charts. They said arranged by Jimmy Raney . I took the charts into the kitchen to see if i could play them. They were chords written out. The charts were marked with chord symbols over the written notes by other guitar players who played these charts. I had trained my self in melody chord playing by reading the chord symbol and adding the top melody note. These tunes were done with just guitar and vocal. She said if I had a problem She would use just piano. That night when they introduced her and she came out on stage . The rain gear was gone and hear stood this beautiful creature. The night went OK. The next night I borrowed a White Falcon from work. I was on a mission to impress this girl. After her final number that night she said to the audience “ How about the sound of that BEAUTIFUL GUITAR. “

[barrymclark]

Take Dan's word as gospel folks. Well respected name in the Gretsch world.

Dan, you helped me get my 6120 that had been stripped down of all hardware but the frets dated to an approximate number of years. This was on the Gretsch Pages about 5 years ago.

Thanks again!

[shamu1]

I think Gretsch hollow body guitars make great jazz boxes. I have a 5122 with Blacktop Filtertron pickups installed, and I think it has a superb jazz tone. It's a tad brighter than what you usually hear on jazz recordings, but I think it gives it a unique, glassy sound. If you don't like the brightness, cutting down the treble on your guitar or the amp takes care of that. Don't like the Bigsby? Just swing the tremolo arm backwards 180 degrees, and it's out of your way, and it looks like the guitar has a trapeze tailpiece. I used to have a 5120, and that had an even darker, "jazzier" sound; I sold that guitar because the tone was actually too muddy and dark, to the point that I couldn't get that Gretschy rockabilly sound with it.

Personally, I think most jazzers simply don't consider Gretsch for jazz because of their appearance and reputation as a rockabilly guitar. The crazy orangey colors and the big, clunky Bigsbys don't exactly scream out "jazz" when you first look at them. However, I think if more jazz guitarists sat down and played a Gretsch for a while, I think they'd be a lot more popular in jazz circles.

If you've got jazz in your soul, you can play it on just about any guitar. I believe that sound or "tone" comes more from the player than the guitar or amp. Hell, I play jazz all the time on my Gibson SG and Fender Stratocaster, and it sounds great for jazz.

[Greentone]

For 20 years I played jazz on an early-60s 6120, like the one Buddy Fite used. It worked just great. The tone was super on the neck pickup...not too bright, at all. I owned two, over the years--a '64 and a '67. They were both great guitars. Wish I had one, either one, back.

[mattymel]

I have TV Jones Classics in my 335. And put a Bigsby on it. some might call sacrilege, but i couldn't be happier. i tried 2 different humbuckers and was never happy with the muddy quality until the TVs.

for me, too bright is preferable to too dark. with too bright you have the option to roll off highs with the tone knob on the guitar. and i seem to keep more definition while still getting the dark tone i like. trying to add treble on the amp to a dark pickup just never did it for me. though i think this may have something to do with the EQ on Blackface amps being slightly weird for jazz tone purposes.

and the TVs don't buzz like single coils…not that that usually bugs me, but its nice when you play somewhere with sketchy electricity.

also, the bigsby adds its own special quality. you definitely are adding mass to the guitar, which for me seemed to be more sustain. stop tails are preferable to me than a trapeze, but the bigsby may even have something that stops doesn't. i have only played my 335 with a bigsby and a few Gretchs in stores (which I also really liked), but i have to say i like what it does to the sound. and i have gotten a tone of compliments from other guitarists that my 335 is the best sounding they have heard...

i have to say my main complaints with hollow body Gretschs are solely cosmetic. i love the looks of their solid body guitars. especially the Duojet. i might have to get one of those at some point. but for me, its all about the dynasonic PUs. its the best of both worlds…the definition of a single coil, with the body and quiet of a humbucker. AND they look COOL.

[docbop]

I've only known of a couple Jazz guitarist with Gretch, have a couple buddies that are Gretch fanatics, but they play Country and Rock. I don't like the note attach on a Gretch, using my term they sound plinky to me. Fender strat's can get plinky too if that help understand what I mean. Seemed like Chet was the one who knew how to get a smooth attack.

[Greentone]

The Gretsch can sound plinky, but needn't. A 50s-60s Country Club, or even a Country Gentleman can do a fine job of providing a jazz tone. One of the best jazz archtop guitars (laminated) I ever played was a Country Club sunburst with two Filtertrons. It had a decidedly nice, articulate tone on the neck pickup without any tendency towards plinky tone--and I do know what you mean.

[docbop]

The Gretsch can sound plinky, but needn't. A 50s-60s Country Club, or even a Country Gentleman can do a fine job of providing a jazz tone. One of the best jazz archtop guitars (laminated) I ever played was a Country Club sunburst with two Filtertrons. It had a decidedly nice, articulate tone on the neck pickup without any tendency towards plinky tone--and I do know what you mean.

Thanks. Growing up in the Beatle's era I've always wanted a Country Gentleman, but never owned one. Maybe one day.

[entresz]

My Gretsch is a really nice jazz guitar. It has a nice warm, loud acoustic sound. Not quite sophisticated sounding as a vintage high end carved archtop, but it compared very favourably with a couple Eastmans I tried out. Only negative is that it didn't come with any pickup at all, but being a very good acoustic instrument I can understand the sense in that.

I can't see any reason why a Gretsch Country club or similar (with more acoustic style bracing) would not be an excellent jazz guitar. The Filtertrons and Dynasonics also are so much clearer sounding, but can be really mellow with the tone rolled back. I'm biased on that though as I'm not keen on the PAF style humbucker sound much, they can get too muddy on the low strings for my taste.