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+1: Raney used a Medium gauge pick as well, and played with a 'reverse' angle, a little bit similar to the GB style. The reverse angle fattens the tone a bit for mediums and thinner picks. Reverse angle like Raney or GB doesn't suit my hands - feels uncomfortable. Jim Hall uses thinner picks a lot as well, amongst other picks. I seriously love mediums for strumming chords, in that dept. they eat heavy thick picks for breakfast. Problem is for single line you have to squeeze them a bit harder if you use a non-GB traditional picking grip like Oberg for example.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
On 'But Beautiful' (Raney) each note pops out with clear definition - a lot of that is the medium pick, they flex a little so the note pops out - not too hard though otherwise the tone is sharp and brittle. When I play around with a medium compared to my normal extra heavies, it feels natural, a bit closer to the feeling of playing with fingernails.
I suspect Grant Green might have used mediums as well, just from the way his playing sounds to my ears.Last edited by 3625; 05-25-2013 at 08:16 PM.
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05-25-2013 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 3625
Just listening to Raney and But Beautiful. Great tone. Love it. I totally agree that (apart from the guitar and the amp) it's the medium pick.
I can get that sound on my 125 using a Fender medium and angling the pick backwards....honestly, no problem.
The pick gives you the pop and then the note blooms and somehow you can hear the body of the guitar behind the note.
Unlike a thick pick that kills the note at birth......or rather obliterates the normal ADSR by taking away the Decay component and moves on the the Sustain and Release components.
3625 I have a crazy idea for you. Hold the med pick on second finger.....not index. Now place your index on the very top edge of the pick.
This will give you a lot more room to angle the pick back and placing the index on the top adds strength to the blade.
This is the way I now play and it also solved the muting problems I was having with the stricter Benson grip.
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I saw Benson many times during the mid 70's. Before Breezin' He either played a sunburst D’Angelico. Or a L5. Through a twin.
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Skip to 1.48 to hear the Sunburst D'Angelico. Awesome tone. Also interesting to hear GB using Melodic Minor over the V chords. Originally Posted by Jason S
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I'll try that out Phil, cheers - I dig trying out different right-hand techniques and pick combinations, you learn so much - often it'll give me insight into some other aspect of playing whether it be time feel or phrasing etc. I think I like the problem solving aspect - fun Originally Posted by Philco
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Cool. I think it's healthy to deconstruct if there is potential for improvement. Originally Posted by 3625
I'll try that out Phil, cheers - I dig trying out different right-hand techniques and pick combinations, you learn so much - often it'll give me insight into some other aspect of playing whether it be time feel or phrasing etc. I think I like the problem solving aspect - fun
I tried this new way out of frustration. I could not maintain the GB pick angle and mute with the side of my hand. Muting is something I've been doing all my playing life. So to lose that ability was a major blow. ...and ultimately not an option.
When I looked at GB's right hand he seemed to be able to mute AND maintain the angle.
My hand is way longer than his. When I rest the side of my hand on the bridge it means my pick is already over the pole pieces of the front pickup. His is well behind the pickup.
Plus I couldn't get the angle and my index finger to co operate.
One day a few weeks ago I changed the plectrum to rest on my second finger and started to adjust the angle by pushing my index finger on the top ridge of the pick.
Voila. It was like I'd been playing that way all my life. I could now mute like I used to and still have the advantages of the GB concept.
That was a great day.
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So, is anyone listening to the new GB album "Inspiration" (tribute to NKC) ?
Pretty mellow, but beautiful - and the guitar just does not sound the same as George's usual - the Ibanez.
Would like to know (once again) what guitar he used on this recording? And the amp!!!! It's quite warm and just beautiful sounding.
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I saw GB play live in a small club in Toronto around that time (the Colonial Tavern). He was playing a D'Angelico New Yorker and his sound was amazing. I expect it was the same guitar as the one in the tap-dancing video. George was unbelievable that night. He played like no one I had ever seen before. I talked to him about the guitar at the end of the night and he just handed it to me to have a closer look. It was spectacular, other than a big ding in the top. George was the nicest guy ever. That night was one of my best memories.
KeithLast edited by floatingpickup; 06-09-2013 at 09:43 PM.
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Originally Posted by floatingpickup
Great story Keith. When you look at that clip you can see that GB is not even looking at what he's doing. It's as if the guitar is an extension of his personality. As if he's just having a conversation with his band mates. And then.....he plays these very difficult and harmonically complex lines from out of the blue......just part of the vernacular. My guess is that he wasn't studying any books on bebop scales at the time!
I think it was a time when all the musicians would hang together and jam and travel and gig. Like a melting pot of players exchanging ideas, trying to out gun each other. Even Martino talks about the fierce competition between players at that time.
So when we dip into that era of playing I think we are trying to decode more than just the notes. What we really need to know is how they got the knowledge and how did they digest and integrate it. A product of an era gone by.
But I fear that stuff is un learnable, as some cultural things are......unless lived.
But we can have the notes!
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Pretty confident from the sound and period that it was Benson's Johnny Smith.
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To me Benson sounds like Benson.
His tone and playing are always great no matter what guitar he is playing.
Yes they sound different but all sound like Benson not anybody else.
I agree there is hint of Kenny Burrell in this recording.
If you want some more examples listen to him playing with Jody Fisher on the Ibanez with gold sparkled top.
I think this sounds very woody.
Then listen to Softly as in a morning sunrise.
Beautiful sound but doesn't sound like a normal guitar, maybe a lot of effects going on.
BTW Joe Pass did a nice version of SOYS on classical guitar. I have been practicing that one.
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That is beautiful. I vote for the Johnny Smith as well, but Benson sounds like Benson!
I think the easiest Benson tone to cop is the GB10 tone.... 13 gauge flats, medium fender pick, decent tube amp (or polytone... Don't know, I've never played one) And of course, a GB10 (I'm lucky to have one... best playing guitar I own!)
What distinguishes his tone to me is the snap and articulation of a medium gauge pick (a .73 works) with the heavy flat wounds. Notes pop out better, but still sound full. Not sure about that wonderful woody tone, though. It's some secret ingredient, like the same spice in Peter Bernstein's tone, although they are very different. I notice Peter playing more over the neck pickup than Benson, so I don't think that's the only missing ingredient. The heavy gauge strings are definitely making a contribution, though.
Great mystery to solve... When we figure it out, let's put it in a pedal
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Matter of taste, but while I do love 'El Hombre', my favorite Martino recordings are his 70's albums, like 'Footprints' and 'Conciousness', and one of my absolutely all time favorite jazz guitar albums, 'We'll be Together Again'. Beautiful jazz tone on that last one - from a solid-body Gibson L5S. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
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George Benson has mentioned in numerous interviews that "Breezin'" was the first recording where he used a Gibson Johnny Smith. This recording of "The Shadow Of Your Smile" was done years before that.
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First let me say what "Woody" means to me, it means a lot of acoustic archtop sound and easy on the pickup sound. That said my example of a "woody" sound is Howard Alden on "My Shining Hour" and "Your Story - The Music Of Bill Evans" those are my idea of "woody" tone.
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Originally Posted by balthazar
Mon cher Balthazar,
thank you very much for this information. This one will be on my radar from now on.
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Another great Benson moment (15 -20) referencing the GB10's and a newer GB model, Pat Metheny, Wes, and esp. Johnny Smith. Watch it, time well spent:
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BTW the new Benson album Inspiration is a great recording--vocal versions of songs made popular by Nat King Cole, most with classic orchestral arrangements. He does a spot-on impression of Nat except for just a hint of the trademark Benson croon.
The guitar parts are not the centerpiece of the album, but he does toss off some tasteful solos (including some awesome scat guitar). I'm not sure what instrument he's using, but the tone is more subdued and dark than usual for GB--more Wes or Kenny, not "woody" at all.
At age 70, I think he cements his reputation as the best male jazz singer around today. And he's still the Guitar Man.
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