Fender vs. boutique amps for jazz

**teleman3726** · 08-17-2011, 05:50 PM

I play my Campellone Deluxe through my Princeton reverb and it sounds good. For a week or so, I played the Campy through a Rivera (Club) and it sounded even better. The Lindy Fralin pup works well and the Rivera picked up all the nuances. (for the lack of a better and less pretentious word).

TH · 08-17-2011, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by rschwa9966

I currently have a Super Champ XD, which is pretty good but brings up a nasal sound in the lower trebles with all my guitars

Have you considered a speaker change? I have an old silverface Champ, had it worked on and modded for more headroom, and it has a Weber speaker in it now. Does everything jazzy and it's really compact.
70's silverface Princeton too, and if you want more bottom end punch, re-baffle it for a 12".

David

**rschwa9966** · 08-18-2011, 03:45 PM

Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue. I tried a few solid-state amps like the Roland 80XL and Vox, and while they were clean, they seemed a bit sterile to my ears. I never got to try a Henriksen, which oddly enough, is not available at any NYC stores.
The nasal quality of the Fender Super Champ XD is absent on the DRRI, apparently because size matters. I also had tried a Princeton Reverb, and it was not a big enough step up from the Super Champ. Again, size matters. I couldn't justify a still-larger amp than the DRRI, the Twin Reverb, because I live in an apartment and am not a gigging musician.
The DRRI is Fender-clean, yet sweet, and sounds good even at low volumes. Since my jazz is taking on more of a blues tinge, the amp's versatility versus a Henriksen is probably a plus, though I regret not trying one.
Oh, and my favorite amp tryout was a 1955 Fender Deluxe at 30th St. Guitars. It was a pure sensuality machine, but it cost $2,700 and I've always had this fear of old, vintage guitars and amps being too fragile and crapping out.
Thanks for all the help folks!

**jzucker** · 08-18-2011, 11:34 PM

i've found the deluxe reverb to be underpowered for loud gigs with organ trio or with a mic'd sax or electronic keys. The vibrolux reverb or gries 35 will give you the same fullness and satisfaction along with way more headroom.

**Stackabones** · 08-19-2011, 12:11 AM

If you are a gigging working musician, get a Fender. Otherwise, get a Fender.

**jzucker** · 08-19-2011, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by Stackabones

If you are a gigging working musician, get a Fender. Otherwise, get a Fender.

Fender's build quality on their new amps is very poor so I respectfully disagree

**marcwhy** · 08-19-2011, 07:51 AM

Fender gets a Fender sound -- which is fine if you like it -- and various boutique tube amps can get different sounds -- which are also fine if you like that. Just like pickups and guitars, it's a personal taste thing.

I've enjoyed my tube amps by Jack Anderson in Washington (he makes Bill Frisell's amps). He understands sound and music, and if you said, "I want that smoky, late-night jazz club sound," he'd say, "OK," and then make you a wonderful amp for a fantastic price that won't break your bank like other "boutique" companies. That, and he's one of the nicest guys in the biz.

Marc

**jzucker** · 08-19-2011, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by marcwhy

Fender gets a Fender sound -- which is fine if you like it -- and various boutique tube amps can get different sounds -- which are also fine if you like that. Just like pickups and guitars, it's a personal taste thing.

I've enjoyed my tube amps by Jack Anderson in Washington (he makes Bill Frisell's amps). He understands sound and music, and if you said, "I want that smoky, late-night jazz club sound," he'd say, "OK," and then make you a wonderful amp for a fantastic price that won't break your bank like other "boutique" companies. That, and he's one of the nicest guys in the biz.

Marc

hmmm, the clips are not impressive IMO. He needs me to do some better ones.

**Mark James** · 08-19-2011, 10:23 AM

Mr. Anderson may have made an amp for Bill Frisell but every time I see Bill playing, whether out or on the net, he's playing thru one or two Fender DRRI's.

TH · 08-19-2011, 10:37 AM

That's because when you have a contract rider, it's not a good idea to ask the venue to supply "one just like my custom amp in my living room." I guess it's like every piano player's got his/her own preferences in a piano but on the road, people don't see that.
David

**Stackabones** · 08-19-2011, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Fender's build quality on their new amps is very poor so I respectfully disagree

Duly noted.

**D'Aquisto Fan** · 08-19-2011, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Stackabones

Duly noted.

I'd get a silverface instead of a new Fender. Blackface if you can afford it.

**Stackabones** · 08-19-2011, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan

I'd get a silverface instead of a new Fender. Blackface if you can afford it.

I agree, but I think the new ones are still worth a listen.

I love the Fender clean sound, and most of the Fenders I've played get that sound (or do a good job of getting there

). When I try out other amps, I'm always looking for that sound.

So I just stick with Fender. Plus, they make 'em for every budget, boxwine to Bordeaux.

**marcwhy** · 08-19-2011, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

That's because when you have a contract rider, it's not a good idea to ask the venue to supply "one just like my custom amp in my living room." I guess it's like every piano player's got his/her own preferences in a piano but on the road, people don't see that.
David

Yep, that's right. He's recorded with the Anderson's, and he actually has several.

**rschwa9966** · 08-23-2011, 08:58 PM

Update: Though happy with my DRRI, I keep shopping because (1) amp shopping has become addictive, and (2) Guitar Center has a 30-day no-questions-asked return policy.
Today I went to Sam Ash and Rudy's Amp Room, trying a Fender Custom '57 Deluxe Reissue, a Carr Mercury, a ValveTrain Trenton and Mesa Express 5:25 amps. None approached the DRRI. The closest contender was the Fender Custom '57 Deluxe. It cost twice as much ($2,000) and, while it had nice vintage tones, it was unable to sound clean and warm at the same time. Clean was too trebly and warm was too muddy.

**Mark James** · 08-24-2011, 10:26 AM

Speakers do need time to season. I installed a new Ceramic Weber Californian 12" in a Tweed Deluxe for a cleaner, more headroom before breakup effect. It sounded trebly and muddy to start with but soon delivered as promised shortly thereafter. If you are going to use the old tweed amp and want clean headroom you need to make sure to swap out the rectifier tube (if that's what you have), with a Diode rectifier like the Weber copper cap. This drops the plate voltage and reduces tube "sag" which helps as well.

**jorgemg1984** · 08-26-2011, 07:09 AM

Good break-in is essential to get a good sound from any amp. Buy a proper CD for that and put it in loop for as long and as loud as you can.

**monkmiles** · 08-26-2011, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan

I'd get a silverface instead of a new Fender. Blackface if you can afford it.

A silverface can be a good value. I just pulled the trigger on a silverface Bandmaster head that I'm going to put into a 2x10 combo cabinet.

Originally Posted by Stackabones

I agree, but I think the new ones are still worth a listen.

I love the Fender clean sound, and most of the Fenders I've played get that sound (or do a good job of getting there

). When I try out other amps, I'm always looking for that sound.

So I just stick with Fender. Plus, they make 'em for every budget, boxwine to Bordeaux.

I love the Fender clean tone too. I have a Princeton Reverb RI that I love and my SCXD has been great too. I put an efficient 12" speaker in the PRRI and an old jan/ge 5751in the v1 spot. I'm able to use it for most of the jazz and rock situations I play in. But will also have the Bandmaster for situations when I need more volume.

**rschwa9966** · 08-26-2011, 09:57 AM

OP here. So a week into my purchase, I'm happy to report complete satisfaction with my new Deluxe Reverb. It seems to be getting warmer and better with use as the components get played-in.
Maybe at some point I'll get an old Fender tweed to satisfy my GAS for a vintage amp, though it's not a sound I'd want all the time and it would just be a supplemental rig.

**Anandbhat** · 08-26-2011, 10:02 AM

Great choice! You won't regret it.

**mambosun** · 09-25-2011, 05:59 PM

In my quest for great clean jazz tone, I recently gave a try to the Superchamp XD with my archtop and liked it a lot; Good tones from the clean channel and reasonably loud enough for small gigs. Icing on the cake, extra sound options from channel 2 make it really versatile for other guitar styles.
For the asked price, with everything stock, it's a really good value, if not a sort of bargain.

I've compared it to some pricier Fender contenders such as the Deluxe VM ( too noisy gain channel, no better tone) and the Blues Junior III (too shrilling, far brigher than BJ II) ; beside extra headroom, they simply could'nt justify the extra expense, at least for my need.

Regarding speaker upgrade, some posters have commented this is a mandatory for a supposedly "better tone" but since it seems impossible to compare side by side two amps with the stock vs new speakers, your only option is to rely on somebody else taste ....

**MikeJ** · 09-25-2011, 06:55 PM

Had a fender twin with JBL's back in the 70's and sold it to help pay for my first wedding (both big mistakes).
Sine then used the Cyber twin for a while (gave that away to my son) then bought a Ulbrik Venue 30 class A tube Venue 30 really clean sound with dual preamp that will crunch it up as much as you like. switches from 15 watts to 30 watts and sounds great at room volumes (at 15w). However weighs a ton..
Recently bought a Phil Jones Super Cub. Light as a feather and for clean sounds with my JS and super400 really sounds as good if not better than the Ulbrik (cant get the crunch) So for now the Tube amp sits very quietly in the corner of my studio.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-25-2011, 07:02 PM

[QUOTE=MikeJ;172685]Had a fender twin with JBL's back in the 70's and sold it to help pay for my first wedding (both big mistakes).

Man i just gave a very good laugh with this sentence!

BTW wasn't a twin with JBsL extremly bright?

**MikeJ** · 09-25-2011, 07:19 PM

[quote=jorgemg1984;172690]

Originally Posted by MikeJ

Had a fender twin with JBL's back in the 70's and sold it to help pay for my first wedding (both big mistakes).

Man i just gave a very good laugh with this sentence!

BTW wasn't a twin with JBsL extremly bright?

Yep much brighter than I was at the time as with it I sold my Gibson ES175 D and lost 20 good years that I could have devoted to my first love of Jazz Guitar.

**kawa** · 09-25-2011, 07:42 PM

JBL D or E or K series are not only for guitar speakers.

These are musical instulments loud speaker series with wide frequency range and etc.

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/components/eseries.pdf