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Their Hardwire series is getting better reviews in general, the digital reverb particularly liked because it has Lexicon algorithms in it which I understand pros favor.
Originally Posted by strumcat
Hehe, I'll look into the whammy and freeze after I get the basics. I gotta watch my spending.
I had kind of gotten a bad impression of the DigiTech stuff in general from some of the reviews of their Multi-FX boxes, but I'll keep an open mind about it and give the RV-7 a listen.
Regards,
Joe
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07-06-2011 05:24 AM
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Thanks mtierney, I guess I am being lazy since I have an RC-50 looper and have not fully used it. I was thinking maybe something simpler would get me to practice more. Your comment made me realize that for me loopers are for practice not for performance whereas good effect pedals are for performance and should not suck tone. So I gave up on the idea of having a practice friendly feature in a serious effect pedal.
Originally Posted by mtierney
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Strumcat:
I just got a Cathedral. I was hoping I'd convert you... lately I feel like if I could only have one pedal it would be that one. I don't think you'll regret it. Also, for your jazz country bluegrass band, consider a mandolin, or at least one other instrument, just to thicken things out. Would there be vocals?
Medblues, the RC-50 is regarded as the best looper on the market! But I can see where you're coming from... the thing makes my head hurt just by looking at it. For practice, one of the delays MIGHT work. But I think they only have 50 seconds or so... I think your best bet is to get comfortable with the RC-50 or get the smaller RC-30 because both are excellent.
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You're right. I'm now finding some better reviews, too. At any rate, I've decided on the EHX Cathedral at this point. I do appreciate the help. Originally Posted by medblues
Joe
Oh, absolutely. I didn't make that clear. The jazz musicians would be in addition to a country-folk singer/guitar-player. I know it sounds weird, but I think the combination could be the epitome of cool if done right. And what could be more American than a blend of American musical genres? The mandolin is a good idea, especially if he/she also played keys, or even violin. Originally Posted by mtierney
A sweet and sour slight dissonance of styles - country jazz. I can almost hear it in my head. Or maybe it's just the tinnitus again...
JoeLast edited by strumcat; 07-06-2011 at 08:56 PM. Reason: typo
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The only effect i have ever used is delay, but i've been through lots of them. I've never found a better sounding tape / analog delay in the sub $400 range than the Ibanez DE7. It is very cheap used, maybe $45-ish, and fairly durable.
Once you get above that price the Eventide Timefactor is pretty good, and the Strymon Timeline is insane... but so is the price.
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My brain hurts from listening to far too many effect demo videos on Youtube. Most of them are useless, but there were enough fairly good ones to learn a few things about available effects.
1. The Cathedral is gonna take care of most of my needs. The reverbs are superb, the delay is fine. The sort of flange effect on the "flerb" setting, if turned way down to a very subtle resonance, is really all I wanted from a chorus pedal anyway. It's stereo, so I can go out to two amps with no problems at all, even from a mono input. And it has presets. And it just sounds really, really good.
2. The Small Clone chorus is beautiful, but most of the range of settings is way over the top for me. I'm not gonna need a chorus pedal.
3. The Memory Boy would be my choice if the Cathedral didn't exist. Sounds great and does a lot of the same things as the Cathedral, and it's a lot less expensive. The Cathedral just does a lot more.
4. The only other thing that really interests me is the TC Electronics Nova System mentioned by Pierrot, but I don't want to spend that much at the moment.
I want to thank every single person who responded here. I benefitted a lot from all of your expertise. Thanks for taking the time.
Regards,
Joe (Strumcat)
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Maybe TC wants me as an endorser, from now Originally Posted by strumcat
... Please pm me, TC guys, hahaha
Now, seriously, Nova (or whatever other multiFX of that quality) is cheap, is you compare with 10 individual pedals PLUS a pedalboard PLUS a current supply PLUS cables.
More, you DON'T get noise, which is more than probable with many pedals, neither the complication of connecting all the gear,.....and you do get memories for preferred single FX configs, presets for recalling on-the-fly your preferred FX combinations, and a small, light, solid and compact device.
Now, frankly, for straight ahead jazz guitar, just a touch of a good reverb is supposed to be enough. For that, I'w recommend the aforementioned Hardwire RV7, which has ALMOST studio quality reverbs by Lexicon.
That said, the real Lexicon sound even much more better, if you want the truth...
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3. I owned the Memory Boy but noticed lots of noise in echoes. It was pretty lo-fi in not a desirable way. The delay chips these use can vary so some people may have good ones. I think its strength was crazier modulated delays. Originally Posted by strumcat
4. The Nova series of pedals sound awesome. I owned the original Nova Delay which sounded great but the UI was terrible. They have fixed that with the simplified and cheaper Nova Repeater. It has a good variety of time and sound settings without losing the simplicity of a pedal.
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The Cathedral trumps all!
In all seriousness though, although the Lexicon reverb is nice as is the Boss reverb, the Cathedral can be subtle when necessary. Post again (everyone, not just strumcat!) if you wanna talk pedals, I'm a dork about them. Huge Mars Volta fan, post-rock fan and sometimes a fan of the shoegazers as well.
Anyways, good discussion everybody!
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Send them a demo video. Who knows? Originally Posted by Pierrot
Maybe TC wants me as an endorser, from now ... Please pm me, TC guys, hahaha
Well, that's all true, especially the noise issues and and the setup issues. But also consider that fx should be in two places: the modulation, delay, and reverb do best in the effects loop, between the preamp and the power amp. The eq, overdirve, etc fx do best in front, between the guitar and the preamp. With a one-piece fx box, you have to put everything one place or the other. The Cathedral is perfect for sitting in the fx loop, and my old HM-2 will suffice as a boost pedal in front until I find something more appropriate. Originally Posted by Pierrot
That being said, the Nova System, with all its wonderful, clean sounds and interface options, is very, very attractive. Also has a really clear, logical layout, and seems built well. So one day I may indulge, and that's something to look forward to. Anticipation is half the fun.
Your comrade in FX,
Joe
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I did notice some of the metallic-sounding artifacts at the end of the delays on some of the heavier settings. However, tamed to more subdued settings, as I would be using it, it sounded ok. Of course, I haven't owned one, and it takes a while and a lot of fiddling and experience to really get to know a piece of gear. Originally Posted by spiral
Joe
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And the eternal quest for the elusive perfect sound continues... Originally Posted by mtierney
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Why not? Originally Posted by strumcat
That's completely true in a mixing desk set-up, with multiple signals. In an amp, beeing the guitar the only signal, I never appreciated noticeable differences, but maybe it's just me, dunno... Originally Posted by strumcat
Agreed, 100%. Thanks for your kind manners, and, whatever FX you choose, enjoy it. Cheers. Originally Posted by strumcat
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There's no two ways with this pedal, when it's on it's ON Originally Posted by strumcat
I only occasionally use mine, but I actually love the way it chirps and warbles like a little live thing when I do.
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The Nova System has some really stupid software issues:
1 - The boost is not real (you have to lower your original signal too have it)
2 - No volume level in tremolo so you loose some volume when you turn the tremolo on
3 - If you use high gain drive. when you have the drive off it makes your clean sound distorted... I almost went crazy with this one! Its really stupid...
Its also a little hard to program if your knew to fx - specially the input gain / output range section to have maximum headroom and minimum noise. After you program it its really great for what it costs and with a gator bag its a really pratical way to have reverb, delay and tuner in one pack (and compression and eq are also useful sometimes).
If they fixes the above mentioned issues it would be perfect!
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Originally Posted by Peter C
There's no two ways with this pedal, when it's on it's ON
I only occasionally use mine, but I actually love the way it chirps and warbles like a little live thing when I do.
Agreed. I think it's garbage; used to have a Boss CE2 which was great. This thing is just rubbish as it's (as Peter C says) either on or off. And when it's on, the only useable sounds are so low, it might as well be off...
Phil
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What I like out of a chorus is something very subtle, more of an ambiance than a noticeable effect. Most of them sound too metallic or buzzy when you turn them way down. Maybe what I'm after is really a slightly detuned sound without the oscillation of a chorus or flanger. More of an opened-up acoustic sort of sound with a little natural resonance. Originally Posted by Peter C
There's no two ways with this pedal, when it's on it's ON
Thanks for taking the time to write that, Jorge. It's exactly the kind of information I'm after. The effects I have mainly used are subtle chorus, delay, reverb, pitch-shifted 12-string kind of sound, and low-key crisp overdrive with some punch for bluesy stuff. Then of course you want a good tuner and an easy to use boost pedal for solos. The Nova system seems to do all or most of that well. The reverb and delay trails are PRISTINE. No metallic resonances. That rock-quarry in the woods sound. Everything sounds very clean and noise-free, an imperative for me. For the kind of quiet, clean, pure sounds I'm interested in, I've seen nothing else as good as the Nova System in that price range. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Programming complexity isn't an issue for me. I kind of like having enough rope to make my own designer noose. Have you found any good workarounds for the boost and tremolo volume problems?
Joe
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Hi joe!
Unfortunately when people review this products they don't talk about this issues and that's a shame! First of all, I really like the Nova System. In my usual pratice, reharsals, sessions and small gigs I need at least reverb, delay and tuner - I don't usually play without this three things. The Nova allows me to have all this in a small package - no transformers, no patch cables, etc... The quality of the effects is excellent, specially delays and reverbs - that's what made TC famous. But all the rest is really good for the price - I also have a pedalboard and the Nova keeps up with it easily. I find it much superior to Line 6 for example.
I didn't have a hard time programming the nova, but I think its not a product for the entry-level. I can imagine someone that is not used to work with pedals having a really hard time with it - input gain, output range, settings for the effects, serial parallel semi-parallel... its not something you plug and play - well it is after you learn how to work with it.
I e-mailed TC about those three issues and I am waiting for an answer. I don't think there's anything you can do except praying for TC to release software updates.
For the boost thing there's nothing you can do about, I think the Nova would need an analog circuit to do that - there's no digital boost. Its not really a big issue if you have a lot of clean headroom! You increase the input gain than take it on the volume and use it as a boost. I think you can find online another options for that - I think some use the compressor and maybe overdrive without gain... I don't need the boost that much
The tremolo is a little annoying.. I don't use it that much but sometimes is great for blues or for that Kurt Rosenwinkel sound on "Season of Changes" by the Fellowship. I think TC should really do an update and add the level button.
The drive thing is what really bugs me! Its a shame that a company like TC releases a product with that problem and does nothing about it.. Just do this: put your drive off and slowly increase the gain setting. Put it maximum (30 I think) with the drive always OFF.. see what it does to your clean sound! I am not so sure this one could be fixed by software...
It still is a very good product for the buck, if they solved this issues it would become perfect. I see a lot of cats using just reverb and delay and carrying pedals, transformers and patch cables.. with this thing you just plug and play! Oh and there's a Gator bag that's perfect for the NS!
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Sounds like Pat Metheny's live rig with a Lexicon Prime Time Digital Delay may be what you're after: Originally Posted by strumcat
Guitar Equipment | Pat Metheny's Guitars, Amps & Effects
edit: I have no idea what they cost and I think you were originally looking for a reasonably priced pedal.
edit 2: ok, I saw what they cost used. I wonder if there's a much more economical way to get in the ball park....Last edited by Peter C; 07-13-2011 at 08:33 PM.
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That's why I don't just Google the name of a product. I follow it with the word "problems". That way you get real reviews from people who have used the stuff, like yours, and not a lot of hype, spin, and phony reviews. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
As for the drive problem, I gather that you can completely bypass the whole analog drive section by going into the line input instead of the drive input. So maybe if you went from your guitar to a DI box to the line input of the Nova System, you could completely eliminate the noise at any volume. Or just put a good overdrive pedal in between if you still want that.
Anyway, great talking with you about this and I still think it's a good unit.
Joe
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Well, actually, it's Pat Metheny's *talent* that I'm really after, but a good collection of gear would be a nice consolation prize. Originally Posted by Peter C
That site is really interesting, and how he gets his sound with the two delays oscillating at two different frequencies is pretty neat. I wonder if you could get something useful with just two vibratos in stereo oscillating at the same two frequencies, 14 Ms and 26 Ms.
I love playing with sound and gear that way, and also with software synth stuff. You can go for hours getting nothing but mud, then some combination or other crystallizes into a beautiful clarity over pure silence, like vivid Russian colors over pure black.
One of the best examples of that kind of wonderful sound is the album Buena Vista Social Club, the Cuban thing put together by Ry Cooder. There's nothing but perfect sound playing over perfect silence, mostly due to the skill of the musicians. Another example is the live rendition of Paul Simon's "Graceland" by Alison Krause and a group of fantastic musicians at Simon's music award ceremony a couple of years ago. When I see people play like that it gives me chills.
Anyways, thanks for the info and the link.
Joe
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The Vahlbruch Chorus does exactly that - and more of course, depending on the setting. But if you turn the Speed all the way down, Depth and Mix less than halfway, it hardly makes a difference, just fattens up the sound a little with some subtle ambience. Goes very well with the jazzy tone of an archtop. Turn up the Speed, use it with a Strat and you're in Chorus heaven. Highly recommended if you're looking for a versatile Chorus pedal with a beautiful sound. Originally Posted by strumcat
Vahlbruch - effects made in Germany
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Yes I can bypass the drive section using the line input or just put the gain really low but that's not what I wanted and that's not what you assume you will get when you buy the NS. I will bring an extra distortion pedal but that sort of ruins the idea of the thing.. :/
But yeah its a great product, the quality of the effects is amazing for the price of the unit!
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BTW what about EQ pedals? I am thinking about a MXR 6-band EQ. Any thoughts?
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Thanks, Drifter, I'll check 'em out. Sounds like what I'm after. Originally Posted by Drifter
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