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Hi all! Due to slightly improved financial circumstances, I am anticipating making a modest amp purchase
. I already have a Polytone Minibrute, which I like very much for jazz use, but which is not very versatile (at least that's how I find it) for other sounds/styles. Plus I would like to have a second amp as a backup. The Roland cube 80xl appeals, since I know it can cover jazz pretty well, but also has other sounds in there. Also I like the built in looper which I feel would be a useful practice tool.
So the Roland is in my mind, but are there any other alternatives out there that I should at least consider before going ahead and spending the money? Any suggestions gratefully received, many thanks!
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06-07-2011 01:21 PM
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I'd toss a Fender Mustang III into your consideration set.
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Maybe the new Peavey Bandit but I have only heard the original which is good but not quite as nice as the roland 80xl IMO.
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What about the Ibanez Wholetone?
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Does indeed look a very nice, versatile amp, thank you for the suggestion. Certainly bears investigation - wish I could find someone using it for jazz on YouTube or somewhere, not that it can't do it, but would be useful to me.
Originally Posted by Al_F
Yes, I think he meant the Fender Mustang III amp Big Daddy - hadn't seen that one before but must be it! Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Will check out that one too, cheers! Originally Posted by jzucker
If it turns out the Roland is all there is for what I want, then so be it I guess - it is pretty good anyway from experience. Just nice to be aware of alternatives if they are out there is all. Originally Posted by drobniuch
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I have indeed seen that amp, and it looks extremely nice for a jazzer - indeed I might have bought it instead of the Polytone if it had existed back in the mid '90's. But I think in the end, for my second amp, I want something that can get into clean Fender-ish tones, and (dare I say it?) more distorted rock type sounds also, as well as the jazz thing - not sure the Ibanez would cover that stuff. Originally Posted by Pierrot
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Given 100 views of this thread at the moment, I'm suspecting that alternatives to the cube are few and far between, although I am grateful for the few ideas I have received - very useful, thank you guys!
Since the classic jazz guitar sounds were pretty much all created with tube/valve amps, I do find it a bit surprising that modelling amps have not yet become a big thing for us jazzers. You would have thought there was some pretty good potential for this technology.
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(relatively) nobody plays jazz so they don't spend any time working on a jazz tone. Metheny was using a Digitech dsp 2101 so you can get a great clean sound out of that. He bought an axefx recently but that is $2k and you still need an amp and speakers. Modeling can do it. It's now a matter of the metal-head engineers and the marketing folks at the various companies to decide whether there's a market for and and based on what I've seen, the answer is (unfortunately) NO.
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I guess you are right about this, though I still hold out the hope of a more specialist jazz oriented modelling amp appearing one day - if there is a small but appreciable market for jazz amps out there (there seems to be, given there are a few jazz amps being made, Ibanez WT80 for example) that eventually someone will get around to it. Maybe I'm just an optimist though! Originally Posted by jzucker
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I think the jazz amp manufacturers are *all* struggling right now. Stuff like the 80xl and ibanez wt80 are just pushing them towards the edge. I don't really want a "jazz" modeling amp. I just want a modeling amp that can get clean fender twin sounds. That ought to be enough. The axefx fender twin sounded great for jazz. The one on the pod sounds too bright and overdrives when you push it. The axefx would be great if it weren't so big and so $$$ Originally Posted by Meggy
I guess you are right about this, though I still hold out the hope of a more specialist jazz oriented modelling amp appearing one day - if there is a small but appreciable market for jazz amps out there (there seems to be, given there are a few jazz amps being made, Ibanez WT80 for example) that eventually someone will get around to it. Maybe I'm just an optimist though!
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Fair points, perhaps we differ a bit on things we would like in an amp, but without wanting to get into a discussion on mass-market products pushing smaller specialist manufacturers into trouble etc., you have given me some pause for thought. I guess I have my dedicated jazz amp for now (Polytone), and will probably end up with a Roland cube as my backup - as I said before, it's versatility beyond jazz is a factor for me, which I guess is the big benefit from modelling. Not to say I won't buy a Hendriksen or similar one day - I would agree that from a pure tone quality perspective, modelling amps are not quite there yet, and may never be. Originally Posted by jzucker
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funny thing is that I have a henriksen and AI and had an evans and IMO, my gries 35 (which is a vibrolux reverb clone) smokes them all.
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An interesting alternative for what you are looking for if I'm not mistaken i.e clean sound PLUS some versatility, would be the Yamaha used time ago by Holdsworth (I ignore what amp he uses currently) I can only remember it had DSPs, memories, a front digital display...
That would be of course second hand...but from time to time you can see them in message boards or maybe ebay...
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Who knows, I might see one on ebay! Or do they still make them? Interesting anyway Originally Posted by jzucker
A good thought, thanks for that Pierrot! You're right - I would like a good jazz clean sound, plus versatility (other clean sounds, plus maybe bluesy distortions - I'm not much into heavy metal ha ha!) Actually, I think I remember seeing Holdsworth with one of those too, so I think I know which amp you mean. Another one to search for on ebay maybe. I used to love Holdsworth's playing (well, still do) but gave up trying to sound like him a long time ago (still have an Ibanez AH10 though, a surprisingly good guitar for straight-ahead jazz IMO). A friend has an old Yamaha G112 50 watt combo, which is a fantastic sounding jazz amp also - I have yet to find one on ebay though. Originally Posted by Pierrot
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What about the ZT Club? Is that in the same class? Powerful SS, 12 inch speaker, good jazz tone, light.
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It sure would.
But remember, our OP has a polytone...he's looking for a amp that could back that up as far as jazz tone, but also be more versatile.
In other words, he's essentially describing a Cube 80
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i tired a zt lunchbox and the tone was muddy and uninspiring. Nothing like what a cube80 modeler can do.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
It sure would.
But remember, our OP has a polytone...he's looking for a amp that could back that up as far as jazz tone, but also be more versatile.
In other words, he's essentially describing a Cube 80ZT Club is an interesting amp, cheers for the thought taxman - in fact cheers to everyone who has done their best to think of alternatives for me, I appreciate the effort. It does seem a very limited field though and I think Mr Beaumont has it in a nutshell. I will at least try to find a Fender Mustang III to test, but probably in the end a Cube will be my choice, it seems to me. Originally Posted by taxman
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Don't forget about the 40xl too. I just found one on ebay for $130 and it can be had new for $100 cheaper than the 80xl. It is light, powerful, and does everything the 80xl does. From what I've read about the Mustang amps, you have to set up a model to get a clean sound; that is, I don't think there is a clean preset right out of the box. With the Cube you just plug it in and its the JC clean sound that everyone knows and loves. Not to mention, I'm a little anti-modeling amps in general, so I'd hate to be forced to use a modeled sound. I'll never use the models on the Cube, but the effects and looper sound great, especially for the price I paid. Oh, and the Cube could probably be set on fire and dropped from a building and still be in working order. Seriously, this thing will outlast us all...
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So how about a straight-out review of the 80XL? Does it sound clean, warm, smoky, etc.?
How does it sound compared to the more expensive pure jazz amps?
Can it function well as your main jazz amp? Thanks!
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I know photo and video guys who said they'd always use film, folks saying they'd always use records and never switch to cds...But time marches on. Modeling is getting better and better. With the axefx nobody would ever know you were using a modeler. The roland Cube 80xl set to a fender reverb amp just sounded like a great amp. Just use the one amp model if you want. How is modeling really any different than tone controls? Originally Posted by histind
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That is worth a thought, cheers! It turns out the local music store has a Mustang III and a Cube 40XL in stock (but not an 80XL) so I plan to try them both out next week (when funds become available!). If I think the 40XL is loud enough for the gigs I do, and I like the tone better than the Mustang, I may well go for it. Thanks for the information, though isn't the JC clean sound on the Roland also achieved through modelling? Always thought so, but maybe I'm wrong. Originally Posted by histind
I have a friend with a Cube, and have tried it out a few times. For my money, the jazz tone is really very good indeed, if not quite up to the quality of a "boutique" jazz amp. I would describe it as very clean, with the impression of a lot of headroom. It has a bit of warmth, but is pretty open and articulate - which helps to bring out quite a lot of "acoustic" sound detail from an archtop. It is not really a very valve/tube amp type sound, certainly not what I would call "smoky". I do prefer my Polytone, which to my ears has a richer, warmer sound, but from experience I could get along very well with a cube, which is why I'm considering one as a backup/second amp. Hope that helps, but just my own subjective opinions! Originally Posted by rschwa9966
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I always thought the JC setting on the cubes is a model of a jazz chorus..? Meggy just beat me to this question.
Last edited by Al_F; 06-09-2011 at 02:30 PM. Reason: double post
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Yeah, that's true. Though, on the cube the JC clean is a separate channel. But you guys are right, a model is a model. I guess I don't associate a clean solid state amp sound with a "modeled" one, but I realize that makes no sense Originally Posted by Al_F
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Just looking at the issue of the built-in looper (80 seconds) on the Roland. The Mustang may be cheaper, but it has no looper. Looking at the cost of a separate looper unit, then the Roland starts to look like the obvious choice for me. Will still try the Fender, but really swaying towards a cube at this point.
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