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So, I was in my favorite guitar shop Saturday and came across this little girl. It was a "had to" moment.
(Sorry for poor photos. Cell phone photos in a hurry.)
I've been able to track down that it is an early '50s Synchromatic, but all I have to go off of is the serial number penciled in the "F" hole. Any better ideas on age and model from anyone?
Other notes:
The tailpiece and bridge are not original (and need to be replaced). Tone is good, but it needs better jazz strings (regular acoustics on it now). The fretboard has been lacquered and it could use a fret overhaul. The tuning machines are Schaller's but they are not made for this size guitar so they need replacing.
It came with what I assume is the original case, but it is rough condition. I have it in a gig bag now until I can address the case's issues.
In all, it looks like I could drop some cash into it and have a happy little box to play with.
~DB
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04-18-2011 10:06 AM
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:O
That is awesome!
For a bit better pinning down, go to Gretsch-Talk or GretchPages and go into the forums there. Lots of help.
I love those old non-cut models.
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Looks like a Synchromatic 100 to me
Gretsch-GEAR: Gretsch 100 Synchromatic 1978 The Gretsch Pages
Tortoise shell binding?
It's a shame it is missing the stepped tailpiece and bridge, but you can get modern repro ones on eBay for about $50 each.
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Interesting find, DB! Thanks for sharing.
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The "100" series is what I am thinking as well. My serial is "9913" (if memory serves; penciled in).
The binding on the fret board is shell, the binding around the body looks more like a solid wood (possibly ebony).
I'm planning on taking this one through several steps of improvements to get it the way it should be. My first step is concentrating on the bridge and tail piece. I'll have to keep my eyes out for a tail piece, because all I've seen are around $150+.
Other steps include a fret overhaul, possible neck reset (it may be a little off and in need; I can't tell with that bridge), new/refurbed finger-rest/pick-guard, and finally a floating pickup.
~DB
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The upper end synchromatics had cat-eye soundholes, and since this is labelled "Synchromatic" it is a safe bet it's the 100.
Originally Posted by lindydanny
Both the Chrome tailpiece and synchro bridge are $50 each from Blackrider (they sell on ebay too). Call them.
Before you do all of that, do you like the sound? I've "overhauled" 2 guitars for way more than they were worth only to later decide i didn't actually like how they sounded. It looks awesome though and if you don't need a neck reset you wouldn't have to pour much in to make it good again.
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I agree. It looks like a 100. I had one of those also, a sunburst with all original parts including the pick guard. What a cool guitar that was. Great find.
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Nice find. If you like the sound of it, it may well be worth speding a little on. The tuner are definetely not original too - looks like Shallers - but keep them. The originals were crap compared to these. I have an old Gretsch New Yorker on which I replaced the original tuners with Shallers which was a huge improvement. My New Yorker sound and plays nicely enough despite being made of pressed plywood and not carved solid wood. I believe that the Syncromatic had a (machine) carved top).
Those old Gretsches are very different though, even within the same model, so I would never buy one unseen. In addition the glues used by Gretsch in the 1950s and 1960s was of mediocre quality, so manye instruments from that time has literally fallen apart with has loose necks, loose bindings and often need a lot of work. My sample is, miraculously, in good condition.
BTW, I have sometimes wondered if the real reason for the monstrously high action on Freddie Greens Gretsch Eldorado was a neck set problem, which Green never got around to do something about. Acoustic rhythm guitar calls for a high action, but THAT high? In Denmark we had a guitarist playing in the style of Green who befriended Green. He had examined Greens guitar which he found to be in an awful condition, badly needing repair. In his last years the guitar had two strips of red gaffa tape radiating from the treble F-hole. Some say it was an indication to sound techs of whereto to point the mic. Others say it was because of a loose and buzzing binding.
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Yeah, I can tell that this is going to have its quirks. But, I think it's worth it.
I've wondered if the neck is set correctly on this one since I picked it up. It seems like the bridge is dialed down all the way and the tail piece (which does need to be replaced) is almost touching the top. With that, there is still some high action at the 12th fret. I haven't measured, but I'd believe 1/4" or more.
I'm not debating that the Shaller tuners are good quality, but they way they were installed made the knobs extremely close to the headstock. That bothers me a bit. But, that is low priority on the replacement scale.
As a question of style, I've got a couple of pieces of 1/8" solid maple that I was considering making a finger rest out of. I'd basically match the cutout with the original (which is in poor shape). Then, finish and mount. This would give me a better base for attaching a floating pickup. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
~DB
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A neck set problem is not at all unlikely with an old Gretsch. Of course, you can always leave it as it is and begin practicing finger strength to become the new Freddie Green. With an action of 1/4" you only need to raise it to the double of that be where Green was. Originally Posted by lindydanny
One thing: That tuneomatic bridge saddle has to be replaced by a wooden one, doesn't it?
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I would assume so. My plan is the rosewood bridge from Stewmac. I'd be open to suggestions if someone has something better. Originally Posted by oldane
~DB
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That would be the long term goal. For now, getting it in better playing condition is my main concern and that bridge that is on it is just horrible.
~DB
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I would highly recommend buying the "real" bridge now for two reasons: Originally Posted by lindydanny
1. You are going to spend $23 on the stew mac bridge after shipping, and then $50 later for the Synchromatic.
2. You are going to spend an hour or more shaping / shaving the bridge to fit the top of the guitar twice. I've done this on an already installed bridge. Doing it on a new bridge has to suck 3x's more.
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So, I'm still holding on to this baby, but I've got a few reality checks that I'm dealing with right now.
First off, money is an object. I haven't invested time or money into any new parts for this girl yet. I'm kind of following the spend-money-once idea that has been suggested. Plus, I'm concerned about "upgrading" parts one at a time before the major body/neck work is completed.
Second, money is an object. (Yeah, repeating myself...) After talking with a couple repair guys and Elderly I'm looking at the following expenses just to get it to play better: $350 to $500 for a neck reset, $250 to $350 to re-fret. Let's assume for a second that I am good with tools and could spend $100 on what I need to do the fretwork, that's still at least $450 to reset and refret the guitar. I'd also quite possibly be looking at some re-gluing of the top (I found a spot where it "taps" the side) and cutting a new nut. All in all, I could sink $1,000 into it once it comes to parts (tailpiece, bridge, and tuners) and labor and just be getting it "playable".
Third, what do I want to be when I grow up? I know we all struggle to some extent with this. I'm finding myself constantly under demand to play styles other than jazz. Most people I play with/for want me to play bluegrass, folk, and rock. Now, I've been playing the Gretsh as my acoustic (since I traded my dreadnought for it) and it sounds pretty okay. But it isn't a flat top. It doesn't blend well with flat tops (or mandolins and banjos for that matter). So, long term I'm going to need a good acoustic flat top to play where the time/money is likely to be (and that gets me back to "money is an object"). This whole issue with style is probably a new thread waiting to happen.
Lastly, space is becoming a problem. My wife and I are expecting a new household member at the end of the year. So, we are basically trading spaces where I am loosing a "studio" and we are gaining a nursery (again, money). As a result, my wife and I (who are both musicians/music-instrument-collectors) have decided to limit ourselves on how many damn instruments we "store" in the house. For me, that means I'm down two guitars as a limit from now on. Ultimately, I'd like this Gretsch to replace my Joe Pass sig (so I can get a good flat top). But, obviously, I've got about a grand to go before that will be possible. So, in the meant time I'm stuck with one guitar, the J/P, and a half guitar, the Gretsch.
(Ultimately, what I would like to have is a good archtop that plays well both acoustically and electrically and a descent JP guitar that would double on some of the folk stuff I do. That might not work out the way I want it too, but I can dream, can't I?)
Okay, so this post/update is getting long...
Basically, I feel like I'm trapped in my own hobby. I'm good enough to start teaching and playing regularly, but still poor enough to not be able to afford something nice to teach on/play with. Again, I know I'm not alone here, but it sucks and I hate it. 8-(
So, bring me some kind words and tell me it's going to be alright. I'll do my best not to b!tch too much more (year, right). Thanks for your support here at the forum.
~DB
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>$350 to $500 for a neck reset, $250 to $350 to ....
at the time it was made, it was a budget model and the gretsches didnt stand the test of time as well as the Gibsons and Epi's did
a synchro 100 is a 700-800 guitar in good condition. yours is refinned and has all its parts donated to elsewhere. If it needs $50 in some missing aftermarket parts to make it play right, go for it. If it needs more than it is just wall decoration, or a nice project to experiment with repairs yourself.
I wouldnt spend that kind of money on it but thats just my 2 cts
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Totally agree. Originally Posted by fws6
I know it hurts but it seems like you have basically come to that conclusion already. Like i mentioned before, i put lots of money and time into two OK guitars, and eventually sold them. Though, it was fun to learn about how they are made and what goes into fixing them.
Unless there is sentimental value involved or something really rare, stick to guitars that are good right now. For that kind of cash, I would take a current Gretsch G100, G400, or Loar over a redone vintage Gretsch based on the ones i have played. Hey, this gives you an excuse to buy a G400. You're saving money!
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I guess maybe I'm just not the right guy to be buying/owning a vintage guitar...
Still, for the time being I'll be holding on to her and saving up for a flat top and then a replacement for the Gretsch (or the repairs if I kick myself into it anyway).
~DB
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Peronally, my advise is to put it on ebay or so, for about what you have in it. Projects are usually easy to sell if priced attractive. And it could be a worthy project for someone capable of doing such work on their own.
Take the money this raises, and add the cash you had in mond for the repairs. Then buy one that is in much better / playable condition
It'll save you a lot of time frustration and money
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This is also an option I've pondered.
My wife is a little "on me" with the idea of selling it off. I oversold getting it to her in the first place. She (as well as several of my friends) likes the guitar now. I guess the looks of it are enough to make people take shine to it. I wouldn't say it's sentimental, but a wife liking a guitar (actively speaking) is a rare and special gift.
That said, I'm still not sure that I wouldn't sell it. For the time being, I'm still going to put myself in a holding pattern at least until after the summer season comes to a close (maybe good deals or eager buyers at that point).
~DBLast edited by lindydanny; 06-16-2011 at 11:38 AM.
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