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My guitar has shocked me a few times when I rested my arm over
the strings. I haven't noticed it anywhere else, so this could mean
it is just my house and not the guitar or amp?
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02-26-2011 09:31 PM
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Ah, memories. The good old days of poor, inconsistent, non-existent, or exactly wrong grounding. I miss the mystery of plugging in and wondering which microphone or band mate was going to zap you.
>>> I haven't noticed it anywhere else
Huh? Do you mean only in one building? One room? Only on your arm???
>>> not the guitar or amp?
It is not the guitar. On almost all guitars the strings are connected to ground. BUT, when this "ground" is not correct through either your amp or the wall outlet, then you can have trouble. It is exciting enough in the USA and Japan, but when you get into European line voltages, it gets really very serious.
Don't fool around. Someone who knows what they are doing can easily sort out the problem.
Any competent electrician can tell you if it is a problem with the wall outlet, and fix it.
Any competent amp tech can check the ground wiring quickly and easily.
Your strings should show no voltage at all relative to the ground in the building. Buy a cheap meter to check this.
Good luck. And really, don't mess around with line voltage unless you really know what you are doing. It isn't hard, but it is rather unforgiving to mistakes.
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One of my weekend warrior duties is providing live sound reinforcement for hire or with my band. Over the years we've played in enough funky churches, town halls and so forth to have encountered really "creative" wiring challenges. Particularly fun are the outside shows put together by hard working non-electrician volunteers.
I have two spare ace cards always at the ready for such situations. The first is a simple five dollar ground tester available at any hardware store. Plug it in to the outlet and you should get a bank of green lights. If there is something unusual (usually a lifted ground and occasionally reverse polarity, which can be very nasty) you'll get red lights along with little legends indicating why they are lit up. Just use one always - it is frequently the only way you'll spot trouble before you get hooked up.
The second thing is a heavy extension power cord/outlet box set I wired up. At 20 feet or so, it is long enough to reach the occasional inconvenient power outlet. And I rant at the band if they do not use this power source: no independent wall plugs! Everything plugs into this one source. It has a double wall outlet box with a ground fault interrupter taking the first hot lead, meaning that all subsequent sockets are also protected by the GFI. In this manner the entire band, the FOH board and all the outboard gear is pulling the same power from the same place - and is protected. Almost never is there an overload as I don't do the lighting. No matter what transients an amp might pull, nothing in a small to medium size band will be pulling enough current to trip a 15A breaker. We haven't had any issues with electric guitars / mic shorts since I started making everyone follow this practice.Last edited by TheCaffeinatedOne; 02-26-2011 at 10:48 PM.
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Vintage Fans.. remember the ground switch on your amp. I cant speak for other models but my fenders, regardless of how collectable, have a 3prong plug installed and the death cap clipped out. Save the old parts.
I remember when I got my 63 tremolux as a kid jamming in our bassplayers basement. Somethign weird was going on but couldnt figure it out until I realised I was in sock feet on bare concrete. I wasnt getting a big shock but I could feel a slight one.
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Reddy Kilowatt can be your friend, but he deserves much respect. Always use grounded outlets and a 3 prong plug.
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I've been trying to tell my parents but they won't believe me.
Originally Posted by NiAg
Our house is pretty old, so there's bound to be some electrical problems
here and there. We have a few outlets that don't work at all and some
are about to fall out. I thought my room had some decent working
electricity..
It is only on my arm. It's left burn marks. I can't feel it in my fingers
possibly due to the calluses. Forgot to note: Even though the shock
occurs on either arm, I have 2 metal plates in my right arm.
Looks like that except I have 2 of those in one arm.
It's narrowed down to my room, because it doesn't happen anywhere
else. It can't be the amp or guitar if it doesn't happen at school.
You recommend me buying an ohm meter, or something similar?
Sounds a lot safer than plugging in at a random place. Originally Posted by TheCaffeinatedOne
I have to buy one of those ground testers.
The outlet works fine with everything else. I have a 3 prong adapter connected Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
to an adapter that has 3 outlets connected to an extension cord and another
3 outlet adapter. Due to the house being old, there are no holes in the outlets
for the ground plugs, which is why I need so many friggin' adapters..Last edited by Vintage; 02-27-2011 at 02:23 AM.
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I remember I had a 57 L5 CES where someone put in some PAF repros. I went and bought an old Fender Reverb unit and a vintage Fender amp. (I forget which model I had). All happy with my new vintage gear, I plugged everything in. I turned on the amp, turned on the reverb unit and ....... ZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAPPPPPPPP !!!!!!!!! I pulled out all the plugs and the amp and reverb unit went back that afternoon. No more vintage amps for me.
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>>> I have a 3 prong adapter connected
to an adapter that has 3 outlets connected to an extension cord and another
3 outlet adapter. Due to the house being old, there are no holes in the outlets
for the ground plugs, which is why I need so many friggin' adapters.
This is not a good idea. Not at all.
I am assuming that you are in the US? Are you in the US?
Even if your house has very old "knob and tube" wiring, it is worth the (remarkable) expense to get this changed. Any decent electrician can get a ground into the room in which you play.
>>> there are no holes in the outlets
for the ground plugs, which is why I need so many friggin' adapters.
That does not at all mean that there is no ground available. Many 1960's homes (again in the US) have grounds in the outlet box, but ungrounded 2-prong outlets. In such a case it is easy and cheap to simply replace the outlet. From your descriptions and practices, I suggest getting an electrician. You need to not only successfully get the ground attached to the new outlet, you need to observe correct polarity on the outlet prongs.
And any decent amp tech can make sure your amp is set up with modern grounding.
>>>You recommend me buying an ohm meter, or something similar?
I recommend having a multi-meter (AC volts, DC volts, Ohms). This allows you to check the grounding of pretty much anything. Also the ground and polarity tester that has been mentioned will be a great and cheap way to check an outlet.
This is not a casual problem. I suggest getting it taken care of, and not using any suspect outlet for any reason whatsoever.Last edited by NiAg; 02-27-2011 at 11:25 AM.
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Bingo. Originally Posted by Vintage
When you use an adapter, you screw the ground lug to the outlet box, right? That works only if the outlet box is actually grounded as well and I'll bet yours is not.
The solution is to run a dedicated line from the main panel to your room, that you KNOW is properly grounded. It's not that difficult to do, but either get an electrician to do it or snake the line yourself and get an electrician to actually hook it up so you know it's OK. If your house has a fuse box instead of a main circuit breaker panel, back away slowly and call an electrician.Last edited by TheCaffeinatedOne; 02-27-2011 at 11:22 AM.
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Good evening, Vintage... Originally Posted by Vintage
Yes, your room has indeed some electricity; your burns testify to that..!
I assume that finance is the reason for not re-wiring the whole house (that can be expensive, and has to be done by someone qualified...). The cheapest and simplest solution would be to run an extension cord (3-wire, with ground...) from the nearest convenient outlet which has a working and reliable ground connection. This should be installed so as not to just lie on the floor, or get trapped in doors, and may require a couple of holes in walls, or whatever, to feed your room with safe current.
You (and your parents...) are playing with your lives here. This is not a light matter. I'll leave aside the fire risks from old wiring; that's another ball game (but serious, just the same...)
On the other hand, you could buy a small battery amp (I have a Danelectro Hodad for practicing, the sound is 'shocking', but iadequate for practice, and not too bad with headphones...), or take up the acoustic guitar.
Whatever you do, don't carry on this way; you'll be in hospital, at best, one day, and no-one wants that. Show these posts to your parents, please, and try to find a solution in the best interest of you all.
Hope this helps...
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Hey Douglas. Unfortunately, you're between a rock and a hard place. I can understand your situation completely when disbelieving parents are involved. I see two very good solutions here for you that will not involve rewiring the whole house. One is getting the battery powered amp or using an acoustic guitar of some type. At least that will keep you in the music. I know those two solutions come with some expense but rewiring can be a lot more expensive especially if you have no control over it.
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do not use that socket
(till its been fixed by a proper electrician)
Run an extension lead into your room from a safe socket for now
seriously ...............
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RIP Keith Relf, singer-guitarist for the Yardbirds...
Keith Relf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Last edited by Doctor Jeff; 02-27-2011 at 10:13 PM.
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A few minor precautions that could actually save your life:
Wear rubber-soled shoes.
Avoid playing while wet or damp.
Get a portable cord that is equipped with a ground-fault circuit interrupter, as someone has already suggested. This device is designed to stop the current flow if that flow is trying to go somewhere other than the circuit, i.e. through your body.
I would have the amp checked out as well. The shock is coming from it.
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That's what I love about the tuba. It's not electric, so I can play it in the bathtub.
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i remember reading about george benson's electrical adventure, which happened right around the time he started singing on a regular basis (re: the "breezin'" album). during a sound check, benson grabbed the mic stand and couldn't let go. he was frozen in place and was essentially 'completing the circuit,' if i remember the phrase correctly. anyway, someone saw what was happening and threw a chair at him (à la rahsaan roland kirk), thus saving his life.
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This is very serious and should be attended to by a licensed electrician. Use of an extension cord with a ground fault interupter adapter will not help the situation because the circuit it is plugged into may not have an effective ground. The GFI adapter does not work on its own but detects a difference between ground potential in the circuit. If the adapter is not properly grounded, it can't work.
In addition to the danger of electrocution, there is the risk of burning down the entire house!!! GET THIS CHECKED BY A PRO.
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Look at also that:
http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/shock.pdfLast edited by YocoYur; 02-28-2011 at 06:19 PM.
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Wow, that (singlecoil.com) link is full of terrible advice. Remarkable.
Look at the various recommendations above in this thread. Get a suspect amp checked. Check the supply outlet, fix if it is wrong in any way (polarity or ground). Use modern mains wiring in the amp. Upgrade ANY older amp.Last edited by NiAg; 02-28-2011 at 07:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by NiAg
Terrible or terrific? I think that there are manny useful advices
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Well, yeah. That is the idea of a forum. We can state different opinions.
My opinion is that one should not goof around with line voltages, especially if one is not extremely familiar with how they work both in the wall and in the amp.
We just disagree. Mine is just one opinion.
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I remember a gig I played about 14 years ago for a retirement party for an Air Force Colonel in Northwest Florida. The party was originally planned to be outside but it was raining heavily. I was glad the party was inside because I just hate to play in puddles but about 30 minutes into the party, some "bright" officer noticed it had stopped raining and that his weather group assured him it wouldn't rain anymore that night. They then instructed us to go outside to re setup our equipment. "Bright Boy" said it should be safe for us to go out with our instruments. The area he said that was set up for us had a number of large puddles at least 3/4 inch deep !!! I told them I wouldn't play a note unless they put us either back inside or on a platform with big rubber covers on the legs. On top of that, there was condensation all over my guitar having gone from a cool dry room to the muggy outside. All the while, these so called educated ding dongs couldn't understand why I was worried about playing outside and being a nervous nelly. After all, the other musicians were all playing non electric instruments except one doofus and that was ME. I never played with that bunch again and that was my decision. The point of this diatribe? You don't fear electricity. You just have to have a deep and lasting respect for it because if you disrespect Mr. Electricity, he will get mad at you and fry you like a potato chip.
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I think in most cases guitar strings are not grounded. I would not want the strings connected in any way to the electronics.
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I am going to say 99.999% of electric guitars do have the strings grounded. +/- .001% Originally Posted by Likeke
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>>> I think in most cases guitar strings are not grounded. I would not want the strings connected in any way to the electronics.
Wow. A guitar with ungrounded strings is a very rare thing. They are out there, but it is very unusual.
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