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Well I have a Taylor 414CE here and I don't see any grounding of the strings, same with my Godin Acousticaster. I do believe my Fender Strat does have grounded bridge. If there is a malfunction in the amp why would I want my strings connected to the electronics. Seems to me that it would be better for the strings to be isolated from them? I believe one archtop builder Laplante does not ground his strings (I'll have to verify that).
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03-02-2011 01:08 AM
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Yes, you make a good point. Many acoustic guitars with piezo pickups do not have grounded strings.
Likewise there are indeed some archtops w/o grounded strings. These are rather unusual, but yes especially those with truly wooden tailpieces can be found without grounded strings.
So my comment above was sloppy since it lacked Sambooka's term "electric guitar".
In terms of what is typically called an "electric guitar", I remember that some Gibbo solid-body guitars were made without grounded strings for a short time in the late 70's (maybe very early 80's).
>>> why would I want my strings connected to the electronics
It generally results in lower hum. Even the ultra-shielded Gibbo's with HB pickups - and built for a short time without grounded strings - would have more of a tendency to hum.
By all means, try un-grounding the strings on your Strat, and see if you are happy with the noise level.
EDIT: My guess is that you'll re-ground them after trying un-grounded strings. I got many requests to ground the strings on 1970's Les Pauls.Last edited by NiAg; 03-02-2011 at 09:43 AM.
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I tend to go on rants about this but not this time. I will just tell my personal story.
I have a fender jazzmaster. Noisiest pickups ever. The pickguard is shielded. The cavity is shielded with paint. I replaced the pickups leads with braided shielded wire (like you see on gibsons). Shielded the pickup covers. Grounded everything (dont get on my back about ground loops until you can prove they are an issue in passive circuits).
What was the end result? No real difference in hum BUT touching the strings has no effect on the level of hum either. I could remove the string ground on the guitar with no ill effects (the shielding I did does however kill a bit of the topend, doesnt bother me that much since I rarely have my tone control wide open anyway)
So, next expirement. My telecaster hums. When I touch the strings the hum goes away. If I place the guitar on a couch (in the playing position) and stand away from the guitar it hums. If I touch the high E string at arms length (e tuner) the hum level doesnt change. Why? because even though I am grounded I am too far from the guitar for my body to act as a shield.
This isnt rocket science and is all very easy to test and validate. I dont understand why there is so much voodoo on this subject. I am sure I havent heard it all but when people tell me "the strings need to be grounded or the pickup cant read the string movement" or "you need to ground your body because it gives of EM Radiation and THAT is the hum you hear" I get a litte pissy. This is sooooo easy to prove or disprove.
Once you get all the old wives tales out of the way you can discuss what is really important. Aluminum or Copper sheild? What works best? What affects tone the least? What is the happy medium? If both affect tone but going the old fashioned "ground the strings" approach is the best compromise then so be it. Maybe other ways of shielding we havent thought of?
Ok... rant over.
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Nice rant.
>>>dont get on my back about ground loops until you can prove they are an issue in passive circuits
Two separate issues: ground loops and passive circuits
Ooooh, three issues:
- Ground loops
- Passive circuits
- Grounding everything
Agreed that in almost all cases you can hear no difference if you have a ground loop inside the guitar.
I do not think that this is really due to the fact that it is a passive circuit, but this is a minor point at best.
I just feel like I'm doing a crappy job if I have a ground loop anywhere for any reason.
You can ground absolutely everything without having a ground loop. The typical way is to use a "star" pattern for all grounding. Easy enough.
In my opinion.
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Note for lurkers: A "ground loop" refers to a condition in which there is more than one path to ground for any point in a circuit. This includes the player if the strings are connected to ground. A ground loop can result in anything from no practical effect, to death. Sambooka suggests that inside a guitar, a ground loop has no practical effect, and this seems to be the case.
To die from a ground loop, you'd usually have to be involved in an unfortunate condition regarding mains voltages. It's hard, but possible.
The COMMON ground loop problem in guitars is running two amps.
If your cord goes into one amp, then from that amp to a second amp, AND both amps have three-prong grounded power cables, you now have a ground loop.
Your guitar strings (if "grounded") now have one path to ground through one amp, as well as another path to ground from the other amp.
EDIT: In fact EVERYTHING connected to ground now has two paths.
You can sometimes get a hum from this. The solution is to have AN EXPERT advise you on lifting the ground somewhere to get rid of the loop.
Doing this at one of the amps can be very effective, but it can also be problematic. Know what you are doing.
A safer method is to make up a custom cable to go between the amps.
Again, attack the problem with an expert.
****************************Last edited by NiAg; 03-02-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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On my home made ES-175 clone I ran a wire from the low E string to the end pin under the wood tailpiece. The other strings grounded at the tunematic bridge. I experience hum at certain tone settings. I've used Gibson braided wire between pots, switches and end pin. I will try it without the ground wire.
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Well, there's enough advice here for you to get on with...but do something about it NOW. And I speak from a horrible experience.
Back in 1967 I was playing in some club up north. I had my right hand holding the guitar neck (a Gibson 345), but then tried to move a mike stand left by the support band with my left hand. I suddenly froze and my vision went to bright blue. I couldn't breath, couldn't shout, couldn't let go, and remember looking across the stage at the others who were all looking at me rather strangely. I staggered backwards toward the curtains, went right through them and landed on my back on someone's table at the front of the hall. The fall fortunately broke my guitar lead and along with it, the electrical circuit. I'd taken 240 volts across the chest.
And now, rather than ask how I was...I'm sure you are all more concerned about the Gibson! Well, amazingly, it was fine. I never let go, and (I'm told) when I was carried out of the hall to the ambulance, they couldn't get it from my grasp. My right hand was burned, and over forty years later you can still slightly see the marks on the index finger. Some of the audience was told that I'd died, but I later came back (not from the dead by the way) and did the gig. I was absolutely dreadful...but got the biggest applause that night!
So get the problem sorted quick!
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>>> So get the problem sorted quick!
What, and give up all that applause???
I can only hope that the guy who started this thread has taken all of this to heart. Really.
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I'll try the cheapest way - get an extension cord so I can use an outlet that is grounded correctly another room. (mentioned by Dad3353) I will have to show these posts to my parents, it is the only way they will listen. Recently, a kid at my school had their house burn down due to the same issue. It isn't worth the risk. There really is no excuse for not getting this problem sorted out, if we know what the culprit is. Everyone, thanks for the advice!
Originally Posted by NiAg
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Update: So, we bought a ground tester and a 25 ft extension cable.
The ground tester showed 'open ground' on MOST of the outlets except
the one I was using (it said 'correct'?!). Then there are some that don't
show up as anything, no LEDs light up.
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Word from technical support at Stewmac is that Gibson ES-175 type guitars do not have grounded strings.
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Hee-hee.
Well now that definitely tells you something. it just possibly might be saying more about Stewmac "technical support" (so to speak) than about guitars,...
As Sambooka said earlier in this thread: "This isnt rocket science and is all very easy to test and validate."
A cheapo multimeter will tell you.
And to not cast doubt on the authority of any ostensibly authoritative source: We can sincerely hope that the term "Gibson ES-175 type guitars" was simply misinterpreted by someone along the line in this bit of tech advice.
In my opinion, it would be a disservice to suggest that guitars out there of the general "175 type" can be relied upon to have ungrounded strings. But that is just one opinion.Last edited by NiAg; 03-08-2011 at 11:21 PM.
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I was hoping to get a response from Dan Erlewine, but I encourage you to contact technical support at one of the suppliers for their opinion. Perhaps I'll check with the Gibson forum.
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Hi Likeke,
I suspect that I am somewhat off-base here, but:
>>> for their opinion
It is not much a matter of opinion. I suppose there is a tiny amount of resistance in a ground wire, but for all practical purposes there is a genuine dichotomy: Strings are either grounded or not.
Between full-time and part-time I have been a luthier for decades. I would hate to have to count how many times I have gotten mistaken info from the 'employee of the month' on the phone at many ostensibly reliable sources.
While many places are famously great for simple, accurate info - Taylor comes to mind as #1, some companies are a little un-amazing.
This just strikes me a such a simple question with such a simple answer (via a multi-meter).
Anyway. Nice thread all in all and with any luck someone will be less electrocuted as a result of this discussion. O&O
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Interestingly my Taylor 414CE does not have grounded strings.
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I will do one better.. I have an es165. This is a single pickup ES175. Originally Posted by Likeke
It has grounded strings. the ground wire exits the guitar under the tailpiece next to the strap button.
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Then you should ground them immediately. Originally Posted by Likeke
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A friend of mine has an ES-175 and it has no such grounding wire - the beat goes on!
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03-10-2011, 03:07 AM #43Archie Guest Originally Posted by Likeke
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Grounded strings or not, who cares? A ground strap to the strings offers no protection when there is no effective ground in the electrical socket. This case cries out for professional electrican to prevent serious injury.
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Another "expert" source says "yes" ground the strings. The ES-175 has grounded strings by virtue of its metal tail piece connected to the end pin. I'll have to attach a wire to the ball end of one of the strings (other strings grounded through the tunomatic bridge) to the end pin.
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Have fun.. remember each string shoudl not be grounded to the same ground source or it may cause all sorts of unexplained phenomenon Originally Posted by Likeke
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>>> unexplained phenomen[a]
Ah, see I knew my ex-mother-in-law's mustache had a cause,...
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Stewmac posted this timely article on how to ground strings using a wood tailpiece (a la Benedetto).
Trade Secrets! Newsletter at Stewart-MacDonald
If the link doesn't work you can go to the "free information" link at the Stewmac site. It should be the latest newsletter posting.
A solution I'll employ with my archtop.
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All of my 175s (earliest being a '56, latest being a '98) are grounded at the tailpiece...from the factory. Even the Bigsby'd ones.
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Did I ever tell you all about the time I asked Bob Benedetto: "how do you ground the strings on your all wooden tailpieces?"
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