Flat Wound Strings

[Moonray]

Oldane, it really is a shame about the La Bellas isn't it....I used either 15-56 or 13-53 flatwound for
years...Loved them!

Then the next batch I ordered in were the ones with the light blue silks.
...It's not that I care about the silk ...it's simply a way of differentiating the "old"/"good"
strings and the "new improved" ones...
That was around this time last year if memory serves.

The basses were sooo dead...they lasted about one minute on my guitar...
threw them away immediately....maybe a rogue set...
Nope....went through the lot..... not one decent set of basses to be had.

The customer service person was most helpful, in that they sent me replacements for the
entire order....Nice....
But the strings still sucked......dead and lacking in volume through the amp....

We bounced back and forth with them sending me samples and further replacements.
...Assured me that their best artisan string makers were on the case and their "professional" had been
test driving the new batches and pronounced them to be A OK.
They sent me a sample of the latest batch...they sounded every bit as crummy as the first bum batch.

They seem to be in denial that there is any change from the old, fabulous flat wound strings they used to make.
I find the whole situation most galling when it's obvious that there has been a change, and for the worse,and
the refusal to admit there has been a complete switch in design and raw materials used.
Still La Bella are not to be faulted on their customer service....except for the line that their "pro's" in NYC find
the strings fine and by extension, I, being no one and in the Southern Hemisphere know nothing.

I told the company rep I wouldn't say anything in a public forum that was detrimental to the company.
However, the comment Oldane posted above got me going...
The rest of La Bella strings are most likely still very fine [I used their 20PH classical sets for many years]
....That's not detrimental to the company, just honest comment on one of their product lines.

I have found it difficult to find another flat set that does it for me...I dig stainless rather than nickel.
Have always found a glaring lack of balance between the basses of the much-vaunted Thomastic
flats and the trebles in the set...the strings sound great and very "acoustic" to me when playing unplugged
on a variety of guitars....but plugged in I find there's simply not enough volume on the basses to achieve a
balance from treble to bass.
Deal breaker for me.

Ironically, or perhaps stainless-steelishly, I have come across a pretty close sub for the LB's.
They are from Webstrings, only available online....they offer a line of flats called "New York Jazz".
I've been trying their light set : 12-52 and medium 13-56.
These strings are stainless steel flats and sound pretty damn fine to me.
They also have the virtue of being very inexpensive, something like US $7.50 per set...and discount
for buying say 10 sets.....nice strings...cheap...what's not to like....
Just google Webstrings....they offer all the other standard types of strings [just their own brand]...all unbelievably cheap.
...Also very smooth basses, ie virtually no gap between wrap, unlike the DA Chromes, which have
undergone a change....DA's still sound great, but they now are quite rough due to wider gaps between
windings on the basses....Aaaaargh [They changed around the time that the DA text on the pack changed.
I'm really surprised no one here has commented on this...hmmm...is it just me?]


[I'm having a nice holiday from flats...all the way to 10-46 just like back in 19mumble mumble,nice
and easy to play and suit the Howard Roberts Fusion 111 I put them on. Could get me struck off the forum ]



Old guy rant over......normal transmission now resumes.

[oldane]

Oldane, it really is a shame about the La Bellas isn't it....I used either 15-56 or 13-53 flatwound for
years...Loved them!

Then the next batch I ordered in were the ones with the light blue silks.
...It's not that I care about the silk ...it's simply a way of differentiating the "old"/"good"
strings and the "new improved" ones...
That was around this time last year if memory serves.

The basses were sooo dead...they lasted about one minute on my guitar...
threw them away immediately....maybe a rogue set...
Nope....went through the lot..... not one decent set of basses to be had.

The customer service person was most helpful, in that they sent me replacements for the
entire order....Nice....
But the strings still sucked......dead and lacking in volume through the amp....

We bounced back and forth with them sending me samples and further replacements.
...Assured me that their best artisan string makers were on the case and their "professional" had been
test driving the new batches and pronounced them to be A OK.
They sent me a sample of the latest batch...they sounded every bit as crummy as the first bum batch.

Yes, it's really a shame, because they were good strings, and there wasn't really anything as heavy out there as the 20PH set unless you put a set together yourself.

Inspired by my post here and by having reminded myself of the 12 annoyingly idle string sets I have in the drawer, I sent an e-mail yesterday to La Bella about the problem. I recieved a reply within a few hours (which means instantanously, considering the time difference between US and Europe) from the Junior President of La Bella Richard Cocco who wrote that they were in the process of revamping (that's the word he used) their line of flatwounds. They will send me 12 sets free of charge when the new batches are ready and I don't need to send the bad ones I have back to them (which would also have been an extra cost for me with only a hope of getting something better and then I'd rather say "oh well").

The answer to me implies that they have acknowledged the problem and acknowledge that it's no use sending poeple replament sets which are no better than the returned ones.

All this ranting said, I can very well imagine that this really is a difficult problem for them to solve. The 20PH set is really a product for the very few and thus it's likely not very profitable. I imagine they can't keep up a production 24/7/365. They will likely have to run a batch, say, maybe once or twice a year and put it on their shelves to send out when someone orders them. Test production runs could well be expensive for them.

[rwmol]

Yes, it's really a shame, because they were good strings, and there wasn't really anything as heavy out there as the 20PH set unless you put a set together yourself.

Inspired by my post here and by having reminded myself of the 12 annoyingly idle string sets I have in the drawer, I sent an e-mail yesterday to La Bella about the problem. I recieved a reply within a few hours (which means instantanously, considering the time difference between US and Europe) from the Junior President of La Bella Richard Cocco who wrote that they were in the process of revamping (that's the word he used) their line of flatwounds. They will send me 12 sets free of charge when the new batches are ready and I don't need to send the bad ones I have back to them (which would also have been an extra cost for me with only a hope of getting something better and then I'd rather say "oh well").

The answer to me implies that they have acknowledged the problem and acknowledge that it's no use sending poeple replament sets which are no better than the returned ones.

All this ranting said, I can very well imagine that this really is a difficult problem for them to solve. The 20PH set is really a product for the very few and thus it's likely not very profitable. I imagine they can't keep up a production 24/7/365. They will likely have to run a batch, say, maybe once or twice a year and put it on their shelves to send out when someone orders them. Test production runs could well be expensive for them.

Let us know when you get those strings. A good question is: how will we know if were getting the improved sets when ordering?

[oldane]

A good question is: how will we know if were getting the improved sets when ordering?

You won't know.

[Moonray]

I purchased my strings through Just Strings and was told by them to contact the manufacturer,
who would simply replace any defective strings.

So if you buy strings from a recognized source,and you do not get good quality product,
you are covered ,to some extent.

Good on you for following up about your situation oldane.


Pleased to hear that you were contacted by someone senior in the company.
...Keeps the pot boiling....
I'd run out of energy, and we seemed not to be getting anywhere.

I agree with your thoughts about the difficulties faced by string co's producing
a product that must be only a tiny part of their range and very specialized therefore
probably not that profitable.

Still, I gained the impression that LB were the pioneers in flatwound guitar
and bass guitar strings.

I have always been polite and understanding of their difficulties when I was in dialog with them[whereas one correspondent who is/was a member of this forum contacted me by PM and was so pissed off that he wrote some very rude, abusive
emails to the the co.'s customer relations person...needless to say, he didn't get very far.]
I am impressed once again with their faultless service, a nice touch in this age.

Now if only they would be able to match that with producing some flats like those of the past.
...One batch would do me....if they are back to their former glory, I'd buy sufficient quantity to see my
days out. ha ha

BTW did you notice that La Bella's now come in a sealed plastic bag....they will keep fresh for ages now.
[Of course this will mainly affect the plain strings, given that the wound ones are,well, stainless]
....and for those who don't know, LB include a spare 1st and second...nice touch.

I'd be delighted if you could let us know when you receive your replacement sets as to how they compare with the
previous [good] ones.

I don't normally get as exercised as this about equipmental issues....except strings and picks....I can get pretty much "my sound"
out of any reasonable instrument/amp but the most tactile part [for me ] is where I'm in contact with the strings.

I seemed to have found an ally in this matter oldane, hopefully things will work out now you've taken up the reins.


Look forward to further developments!

[D.G.]

I've been abandoning flats on most of my guitars recently and going back to round wounds. i just got sick of hearing a dead "thud" when hitting the bass strings. OTOH, I'm really liking TI swings on my Tele with WRH pups, so it's really just a matter of what I want to hear out of any particular guitar at any particular time...

[yurkie]

I just bought a carved toped Eastman with out a pick up I am going to add a floating pick up any suggestion's.... I will def go with flat wounds as well... I hope it brings the mellow out...

[Philco]

I play an AF120 , lam spruce stuffed with foam
Yeah aren't flats cool !
next try going up the guages ........it just keeps getting better man !

I'm onto TI Benson 14s now
I've admittedi ts one step too far for me now
on the hand strength thing
going back a step to 13 TI Jazz swings next time which I had on prior
to the 14s

more metal = more music power
the TIs are pricey but fabulous by the way and last for ages

Interesting as I just did the opposite. Went from 12 to 14 Benson's. Well.....I am really going "back" to them as I used to use them.

Worth noting.....all NEW sets of Thomastik Benson's now come with tin plated first and second. If you dislike the gold first and second as I do then this is a real bonus. There is actually a small sticker on the front of the pack.

Your store may have old stock so if you want the tin then shop around.
Anyway the thing I noticed was that there is a big difference between the 2 gauges in feel and tone. I was very surprised. I would go as far as to say they feel like a different set (brand) of strings completely. Different sound and feel.
I love these strings though. Both sets are great!

[kgscott]

Hi all

I've just recently picked up a godin kingpin II and strung it up with daddario chrome jazz lights (11-50). I am new to flats but I love the feel and am hooked on the sound. The thing I find strange is that the wound G string in this set is very much like a round wound (sounds and feels very scratchy), whereas the E/A/D strings feel like silky ribbons.

At first I thought that perhaps a the wrong string was put on when the shop set my guitar up, so I asked them to open another of the same set and found the same thing. The people at the store don't deal with flats very often and no one really new why.

Before I change string brands, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed this? Perhaps I need to change to a heavier gauge or just order some thomastiks.

thanks in advance for any feedback from the seasoned "flatwound" players out there ��


Cheers

Ken

[339 in june]

It's been 2 years that I use D'Addario Chrome 11 on 2 of my guitars. And I'm happy with them.
I never noticed any difference in feeling between the wound strings
Don't know what happened to your strings but it certainly is not as it must be

[kgscott]

Thanks 339 in June

Good to know. Perhaps the store I purchase from has a few sets of strings with the incorrect G string.

Cheers

Ken

[SuperFour00]

Hi all

I've just recently picked up a godin kingpin II and strung it up with daddario chrome jazz lights (11-50). I am new to flats but I love the feel and am hooked on the sound. The thing I find strange is that the wound G string in this set is very much like a round wound (sounds and feels very scratchy), whereas the E/A/D strings feel like silky ribbons.

At first I thought that perhaps a the wrong string was put on when the shop set my guitar up, so I asked them to open another of the same set and found the same thing. The people at the store don't deal with flats very often and no one really new why.

Before I change string brands, I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed this? Perhaps I need to change to a heavier gauge or just order some thomastiks.

thanks in advance for any feedback from the seasoned "flatwound" players out there ��


Cheers

Ken

Hi Ken

I use that set on several guitars, and I've noticed what your saying. This is a recent development, I've only noticed it in the past year or so. Previously, the windings on the wound "G", I believe wound 22 in that set, was identical to the other strings. Now the "G" in that set of chromes resemble the flatwound strings from Guitar Fetish, which are noticeably different than Chromes, with a "ropey" feel.

[vinlander]

Hi Ken

I use that set on several guitars, and I've noticed what your saying. This is a recent development, I've only noticed it in the past year or so. Previously, the windings on the wound "G", I believe wound 22 in that set, was identical to the other strings. Now the "G" in that set of chromes resemble the flatwound strings from Guitar Fetish, which are noticeably different than Chromes, with a "ropey" feel.

I compared the d'Addario flats 13-56 sets I have on both my Joe Pass and Regent and I feel also that difference on my 26w G string; It is indeed now much less smooth, don't know however if it is just a certain batch.
I still have a set or two, but won't open them until I need to change strings.
Hopefully it is not the new way; might be the time to look for other brands...
Sad that Rotosound is not heavier than 12-52 would have been a potential contender; I still have that 15-56 Labella 20PH waiting on the desk...will see

[rpguitar]

I just purchased a set of D'Addario Chromes in 12-52 and the G string would not intonate on my L-5 (wooden bridge). I've had no issue with either TI Swings or D'Addario XL roundwounds on the same guitar with no changes. The intonation wasn't even close, and I had to bail on the Chromes altogether.

[Woody Sound]

I've seen Artcores with .009's in shops hanging on the walls for a while. I said at one shop that their Artcore would finally fly off the shelf if they put flats on it.

Don't be too sure about that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=q7k02HREmtc

[oldane]

Don't be too sure about that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=q7k02HREmtc

Oh dear. Not him again.

[kgscott]

Super004/vinlander/rpguitar -

thanks for the feedback. I've emailed D'Addario about this, and will post their reply if they get back to me. I may try out a different brand. They only have the one brand in my town so I'll have to have some different ones shipped here.

Cheers

ken

[matt.guitarteacher]

Don't be too sure about that...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=q7k02HREmtc

Wow. " The crazy thing is it has these f holes in it..." :-) nice... "but I really don't know what I'm talking about...".

[Greentone]

Phil-X...oh, boy...put a priceless guitar in his hands and watch it depreciate. Can't understand how Fretted Americana entrusts instruments to him. Well...it's their money. Phil is a talented guy, but he sure can flail on Loar-signed, irreplaceable instruments and one-of-a-kind prototypes (Gobel's original L-5CT). When is he going to set fire to one of Jimi's Stratocasters?

[rwmol]

I too have had intonation problems with Chromes. Not only the G string but after a short period of time the whole set looses intonation. I tried a couple of sets with the same result. I've abandoned Chromes.


I've had really good luck with Labella 20PHs. A year and a half ago the word was out that Labella was making a design change in the 20PHs. I emailed them and got the following answer:

"Hi Randy,

Thanks for your email! We are in the beginning phases right now of developing new sets.


We will likely have some samples ready in the next 6-8 weeks.


Please let us know if you'd be interested in testing them out!


Best,
Lorenza"

I told them I would be interested but never got an answer back. I emailed them again today. The main issue is how do you tell the difference between the old and new sets. I asked for this answer. If I get an answer I'll report back.

[vinlander]

The main issue is how do you tell the difference between the old and new sets. I asked for this answer. If I get an answer I'll report back.

Not sure but on another thread someone mentionned the lighter blue silk on the newer sets as opposed to the former darker blue one and how they no longer sounded the same...
I still have that unopened 20ph bought 2 months ago

[rwmol]

I remember reading that thread about the colors. Hopefully I'll get a reply.

[oldane]

Not sure but on another thread someone mentionned the lighter blue silk on the newer sets as opposed to the former darker blue one and how they no longer sounded the same...
I still have that unopened 20ph bought 2 months ago

That's right. Darker blue = old batches. Light blue = new batches. About two years ago, I tried both and the new ones had very dead low strings even when new. They also had irregular spots when you slide up the string with two fingers. If they have revamped the production as they said they would, that may have changed to the better, but I switched to TI and never got around to trying a new set of LaBella. Anyone here have experience with the recent LaBella 15-56 flatwound set.

[vinlander]

I had just lately swapped the 13 and 17 of the d'Addario 13-56 I had on since a couple month for a 14 and 18 extra from an old set of Labella black tape 800M that I experimented with in the past.
I liked the overall tension and tone it was giving but that thing about the now ropy G string was growing on me in a bad way...Its is supposed to be flat and smooth not abrasive and ropy.


Being the thinkerer I am, that was too teasing and I decided this morning the Labella 20ph package on my desk was staring at me with invitation...
Don't know if the silk color on that 15-56 flats set is the light or dark blue; only people with past experience with Labella could probably tell.
If it is the dark color then it might by NOS I dunno if Italmelodie were I bought these has a huge turn over on them...



Impressions so far:
At first like on my extra 14 and 18 from the previous Labella set set the plain strings feel sticky at first, dunno if it is a coating they put on or if it was an older package, in any case a simple cleaning with an old t-shirt cared for it.
They are new strings and as such they are a bit on bright side but already sound less twangy than the brand new d'Addario.
I have the feeling tension is a bit less than d'Addario.
I can already feel they are a bit more balanced than the d'Addario tension wise and tone too.
I will give them the time to really set and try them plugged in later on, but so far sounds good.

[tony.quayle]

I've got a Gibson 335 with roundwound 11's - flatwounds better for straightahead jazz & less fusion !