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P.S.
Jay, you do realize that the peerless guitars are made using CNC machines (Numerical control - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
So I guess you're really saying the korean computers are smarter than the chinese ones?!?
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05-30-2011 04:13 PM
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But that's exactly my point! The Chinese marketing strategy in general (not only in guitar manufacturing) is to lower production costs, because they know the market for cheap guitars is much larger than the market for high-end guitars.
Originally Posted by jzucker
And indeed you can see that the market is changing and now also more and more high-end guitars are coming from China. And because of improving production-techniques (yes, CNC but also quality-control) even the low-end Chinese guitars get better and better. I have a cheap Chinese-made Harly Benton nylon string that is remarkebly good for it's price.
But at some point the discussion was about Peerless vs Epiphone, as they both make an ES-330 inspired model. I suspected that the Korean made Peerless is a better guitar than the now Chinese made Epiphone, based on my experience with Epiphone models as the Sheraton and the Casino, because I liked those models better when they were still made by the Peerless-factory. After production moved to China they lacked some of the quality they had before. That has nothing to do with Chinese not being able to produce good guitars, quite the contrary, Eastman and The Loar are excellent guitars.
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You're still not seeing the big picture. Epiphone and Eastman are *AMERICAN* companies. They just farm the guitars out for the cheaper labor. Thus, it is not the chinese or the koreans who are calling the quality shots. And by the way, the eastman guitars are higher quality than the peerless by far. Witness the 3pc spliced necks on the peerless vs solid wood on the eastman (among other things.) Originally Posted by Little Jay
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Ok I get you now. I know the parent companies are American. They have their guitars made in China, whereas Epiphone had their guitars at some point made in Korea. What I tried to say is that when Epiphone was still having their guitars made in Korea (Unsung, Samick, Peerless) their guitars pleased me more then the guitars they are having made in China at the moment. I have an early 90ies Korean-made Sheraton that feels and sounds better then the modern China version, in my experience. Originally Posted by jzucker
I have no clue what changed exactly that makes me like the Korean-made Epiphones better. Of course Epiphone (and Ibanez etc.) probably put their demands on the table in terms of a minimum quality for a certain price, and the Chinese just produce the demanded quality for as low as possible costs. Maybe those demands have changed over the years? Or back in the days that Epiphones were made in Korea better woods were available for lower prices? Perhaps the same Chinese factory that puts out the cheapest Epiphones is perfectly capable of producing high-end guitars, but of course they would have to be marketed at a different price.
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Bumping an old thread, because I'm considering the purchase of either a Casino or a Peerless Songbird.
Anyone have thoughts on the two? Is a new Peerless Songbird "worth" almost twice the price of a new MIC Casino?
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I haven't looked at these specific models, but I have a Peerless Sunset and have owned an Epiphone Joe Pass (1999, Samick, MIK) and an Epiphone Dot (MIC). Peerless has been making archtops for over 40 years initially for Gretsch and Gibson, now under their own name, and the quality IMO is outstanding. I would rate it quite a bit higher than the Samick or Chinese guitars I have owned.
I am also pleased with the Sunset pickups, which are described as "Epiphone Classic 57's" - very warm, balanced and to my ears much better sounding than the stock pickups on either of the Epiphone-branded guitars. (In fact I changed out the JP pickups but liked the Sunset so much I traded the JP for it.)
From my perspective the main challenge to evaluating Peerless, Eastman and Loar is lack of dealers in my area. It's hard to find them to try out, whereas Epiphones are ubiquitous.
That said, if I tried an Epiphone that I liked I would get it, a bird in the hand you know, or if by chance I came across one of the others that spoke to me. I would have no problem buying a Peerless site unseen, ideally with a generous return policy. I can't say the same for the others given my lack of experience with them.
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thanks for the info, Doctor!
I have to say, the Peerless line-up of guitars is quite seductive. I'm not at all afraid to buy a guitar sight-unseen, as I've done it many times and have almost always been pleased with what I received. Also, I know how to do set-ups and fret-levels and stuff like that, so even if I get a guitar that's not perfect, I can usually get it in good shape.
I've played a few MIC Epiphones in GC in recent years, and haven't been overly impressed with the overall feel, fit and finish. Not bad, but not great either. As of right now, I'm looking for a used Casino Elitist (MIJ) and still considering a Peerless (either the Songbird or the Revolver).
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Jeez, talk about hijacking a thread...
To the OP.
I have an oddball Casino, it's unknown where it was made, because it was some sort of sample or show guitar. I also have a Gibson "custom shop" ES-330 to compare it to.
First off they're not completely hollow, they have a wood support block to hold up and secure the TOM to. So, I'd call it an almost hollow. Gibson / Epiphone dropped the ball on this design decision. An archtop violin type bridge might have (IMO) been a better choice, especially since many do not like the TOM but few dislike rosewood and go to a TOM bridge.
Anyway... as far as sound and playability go, my Casino is every bit as good as the genuine 330. Of course this is my Casino I refer to but others may be just as well done.
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That's a tough one; I can't answer your question on the relative value. You'd have to have both guitars in hand to know. You can probably find an Epi Casino to try out in a store somewhere much more easily than you'll ever find a Peerless Songbird to try out. Trying an Epi Casino would give you a place to start in terms of value. Originally Posted by peskypesky
Peerless makes a decent quality guitar; that's been fairly well established. Quality aside, that doesn't guarantee that you'll like (or dislike) what they make.
The residents over on the Epiphone board have almost unanimously stated that the quality coming out of the chinese Epiphone factory has steadily improved to the point where there is no longer any need to look for an older Korean-made Epi guitar in order "to get a good one". I think this mainly refers to build quality, fit and finish. The electronics and hardware are still on the 'cheap' side although quite useable. Now those comments are all within the framework of asian-made Epiphone hollow/semi-hollow guitars , without much reference to anything outside it, so take it for what it's worth. They are also not talking about the really cheap entry level solid body guitars.
I guess all this is a way of saying that just a few years ago you might have been almost guaranteed that a chinese Epi Casino was going to be a noticeably inferior guitar whereas today it appears to be less so. Buyers of recent Epi hollow and semi-hollow guitars appear to be very pleased and happy with them.
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Nearhigh,
There is a very nice Peerless 330 style fore sale in the sales section. UK located, I believe, and selling for 550Euro. Looks really nice and pricing seems fair. Might be worth a look. I do not know the seller but am somewhat partial to the Peerless line. Epi's were nice but did not have the same tone quality to my sense of hearing.
Hope that helps.
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