Best Jazz Archtops under 5000 USD?

**lizandvk** · 09-14-2010, 09:03 PM

Hey guys!

I've been playing for twenty-five years and recently got the Jazz bug! I've been learning all the standards like crazy and quickly building up my set list and chops. I live overseas, so getting to try all these great jazz boxes is something that isn't likely to happen. I'm going to sell a few pieces and get a nice jazz box that I can keep for awhile, hopefully without wanting something else!

Can anybody suggest some makers to check out? I am most interested in, playability and sound. Re-sale and future value are also considerations. I like a low action, easy to play, slinky, guitar.

Thanks for the time and info!

Cheers!

**NSJ** · 09-14-2010, 09:31 PM

www.sadowsky.com less than $4k, the best you can find.

**82Benedetto** · 09-14-2010, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Sadowsky Guitars less than $4k, the best you can find.

Eh, If I'm spending anything close to 5k on a laminate I'm getting a Tom Painter. You can do a lot with 5k. You might consider getting a Campellone.

**D'Aquisto Fan** · 09-14-2010, 10:08 PM

I'm a big fan of Bryant Trenier's work.

**kamlapati** · 09-14-2010, 11:12 PM

I think the best value is an old Epi or Gibson L-5. But will also second D'Aquisto, we both think Trenier makes great guitars at a great price.

**spiral** · 09-14-2010, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by lizandvk

Can anybody suggest some makers to check out? I am most interested in, playability and sound. Re-sale and future value are also considerations. I like a low action, easy to play, slinky, guitar.

That is a magic number. It is in the sweet spot of getting a top notch, hand-made instrument. Are you concerned primarily with acoustic or electric sound?

I am on a similar journey but am primarily concerned with acoustic sound. In that price range i have been very impressed with American Archtop (Dale Unger), Campellone, and Borgeois. I also want to try a McCarthy Skylark Spirit, but like with you, geography is going to be a barrier to playing one (Michael is in California). I've visited a few shops and bought and sold a bunch, but those three names stand way above what i have tried so far.

**lizandvk** · 09-15-2010, 12:17 AM

Wow!

Thanks for all the great info everyone!

I am looking for more of an electric instrument. Can anyone enlighten me as to the benefits of a laminate as opposed to a carved top? Sorry for my ignorance...I'm coming from a rock and roll/Les Paul background here!

I've really liked looking at both the Campellone and the Trenier...has anyone played them? How do they feel to play?

Many thanks for all of your answers! I really appreciate the help!

Cheers!

**Bill C** · 09-15-2010, 02:05 AM

A laminate body will typically give a slightly "darker" more electric sound and is more resistant to feedback. A carved top typically gives a slightly more "refined" sound and typically has a bigger acoustic voice. A good laminate may have a pleasing acoustic voice though. A laminate will tend to be more able to deal with rough handling and temperature/humidity fluctuations.

If you consider Sadowsky note that they have recently introduced the SS-15 15" archtop.

**Cooperro** · 09-15-2010, 04:22 AM

I'm a big Benedetto fan. Both the Bambino Deluxe and the Bravo can be had at your price range. The Bravo is the bigger of the two. Check out these links, and call Jim at Guitar Rodeo for the best prices. Only the Bravo Deluxe will come in a couple hundred over your limit. I ordered the block inlays on my Bambino Deluxe for a small upgrade charge - still coming in way below your price ceiling. PM me if you have any questions.

Bravo? | Benedetto Guitars

Bravo Deluxe? | Benedetto Guitars

Bambino Deluxe? | Benedetto Guitars

**goshawk** · 09-15-2010, 09:08 AM

With a $5000 budget, the challenge is going to be to narrow your choices. If I had that budget and was shopping for an electric jazz guitar, I would probably look at:

Tom Painter's archtops. These start at $2500 and you can select body size, depth, finish, pickup, etc.

Richard Moll's instruments. Moll makes John Pizzarelli's guitars. If you like his sound, the Workingman's Hero ($4000) is a bare-bones versions of the Pizzarelli signature model.

The Benedetto Bambino. I was lucky enough to demo this in a local store. To me, just an amazing guitar.

The Sadowskys.

The Gibson ES-175. With that budget, either a new or vintage instrument is in range.

There are several Heritage models I'd want to demo. (Heritage was founded by ex-Gibson employees in Kalamazoo)

The Ibanez GB series (my teacher plays a GB-15)

I also think what I'd try to do is not spend the entire amount on the guitar, so I'd have enough to pick up a good amp.

**barrymclark** · 09-15-2010, 09:11 AM

Heritage fan. Real shocker, I know (just look at my signature). There are very few models you can't get for under 5k.

http://heritageguitar.com/indexb.html

**fumblefingers** · 09-15-2010, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Cooperro

I'm a big Benedetto fan. Both the Bambino Deluxe and the Bravo can be had at your price range. The Bravo is the bigger of the two. Check out these links, and call Jim at Guitar Rodeo for the best prices. Only the Bravo Deluxe will come in a couple hundred over your limit. I ordered the block inlays on my Bambino Deluxe for a small upgrade charge - still coming in way below your price ceiling. PM me if you have any questions.

Bravo? | Benedetto Guitars

Bravo Deluxe? | Benedetto Guitars

Bambino Deluxe? | Benedetto Guitars

ditto on this. go for the deluxe.

also very important - those are retail prices, take off 25%.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-15-2010, 10:44 AM

5k? I'd be seriously considering what I could nab in the vintage market...but that's me--I'd rather have a 40's Gibson over a new Benedetto any day of the week.

**Dad3353** · 09-15-2010, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by lizandvk

...Re-sale and future value are also considerations. I like a low action, easy to play, slinky, guitar....

...I'd rather have a 40's Gibson over a new Benedetto any day of the week...

I wonder how much a now-new Sadowsky or such will be worth in 70 years time, considering the (apparent; I don't own one...) inate quality of the beasts? Vintage guitars have their charm (I have a couple...), but someone bought them new, once.

**FatJeff** · 09-15-2010, 12:06 PM

I'm going to be in the same boat as the OP (maybe slightly more $$$ to spend) in another year or two. I'm following this thread with interest.

Obviously, the L5 would be the ultimate, but it might be hard for me to justify spending $10k - $15k.

A few weeks ago I purchased an Ibanez Artcore AF105NT, and was amazed at how great it played for only a $600.00 guitar. I'd definitely think about another Ibanez at a higher price point - how do the GB models stack up against their less expensive brethren?

TommyD · 09-15-2010, 02:12 PM

One of the very nicest jazz guitars I've heard in a long time is the custom George Benson Ibanez - wonderfully dark, never muddy, clean in the lowers and bright in the uppers with good separation all the way. It has a great fretboard and neck as well, and is a nice compact size.
My experience with carved top guitars is that they are boomy (Had an L4, hated it!) There's a lot to be said for laminates in terms of clean amplified sound.
tommy/

**NSJ** · 09-15-2010, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by TommyD

One of the very nicest jazz guitars I've heard in a long time is the custom George Benson Ibanez - wonderfully dark, never muddy, clean in the lowers and bright in the uppers with good separation all the way. It has a great fretboard and neck as well, and is a nice compact size.
My experience with carved top guitars is that they are boomy (Had an L4, hated it!) There's a lot to be said for laminates in terms of clean amplified sound.
tommy/

Had one GB 10, wound up selling it ,along with a lot of other guitars--better fewer, but better. No regrets--that GB 10 and other cheaper axes wound up morphing into a Jim Hall. GAS leaves you bloated, best to be happy with what you have

**NSJ** · 09-15-2010, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

I'm going to be in the same boat as the OP (maybe slightly more $$$ to spend) in another year or two. I'm following this thread with interest.

Obviously, the L5 would be the ultimate, but it might be hard for me to justify spending $10k - $15k.

A few weeks ago I purchased an Ibanez Artcore AF105NT, and was amazed at how great it played for only a $600.00 guitar. I'd definitely think about another Ibanez at a higher price point - how do the GB models stack up against their less expensive brethren?

You can see people trying to offload their used L5s (recent ones, not vintage) for 5-6k. $5800 seems to be a good ballpark figure. Just saw a Wes model for that one USED on a local CL.

now an even better bargain is a Heritage Golden Eagle, which can be had for about $3k used. archtop.com: #1 Online Marketplace for Vintage Jazz Guitars is a good barometer of prices.

TommyD · 09-15-2010, 02:53 PM

In my experience, Heritage necks are too skinny. They're not beefy enough to hold still through weather and temperature changes.

**msr13** · 09-15-2010, 09:04 PM

As has been said many times by guys on this Board much wiser than me, best is in the hands of the beholder. I just got a Sadowsky Jimmy Bruno, and this is it for me on the archtop front. I tried the Benedetto and thought it was pretty awesome, but not the one for me. I also have a 175 that I love, as well-- but it was after several tries before finding that one. Every one of us here will have an opinion-- laminate/ solid, 15/16/17, mahogany neck/ maple neck, brand x/ brand y. If you like it, at that price point, you can't go wrong. But, you have to love it, and only you can figure that out. But... if you can't, go for a Sadowsky

.

**bigeric** · 09-16-2010, 11:37 AM

Lotta nice choices for 5k. I have been playing arch tops for a long time.
Used is the way to go. If Im going laminate early 50's gibson es 175.
3k thereabouts for a good one. Leaves some dough for a great setup.
Solid wood guitars I like Heritage guitars. Again buy used. Have it setup by the best pro you can find. Dial it in with the strings that will make it sing.
The biggest mistake with new archtop players is string choice.
The strings gotta be stiff. If you want a fat singing tone you have to do it.

I like the Sadowsky guitars. But I'm old school. I like guitars made in the USA.
I know quite a few people like Asian guitars and they are getting better.
But I have yet to play one and say I gotta have this.
Again I stress arch top guitars need accurate setups.

good luck

**Bill C** · 09-16-2010, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by bigeric

If Im going laminate early 50's gibson es 175.

I agree, the early 50's 175's can be great guitars. I love the sound of the old p90's but hum and feedback can be an issue imo in recording or loud gigging situations.

**bigeric** · 09-16-2010, 01:09 PM

No doubt Bill. They can be a pain. But tonally they really cant be beat.
Geez I should say that I have been a Heritage guitar endorser for the last dozen years. I play em cuz I like em. I am not trying to shill for them.
I know a lot guitar players dont care for them. I have heard it all. Funny headstock. The tops sink. The necks warp. They are ugly. Cant stay in tune. Tiny necks. Humidity problems. The list goes on.
I play what I like. You should do the same.
All guitars need accurate pro setups. I stress this point.
Its all good.
5k will get a whole lot of guitar these days.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-16-2010, 01:24 PM

I routinely check out the J Hale web site. They link to their used instruments for sale page on eBay. I just noticed they have a custom order (carved spruce top) Heritage H575 for $1,800. Just a tip!