Breaking in a new archtop

**Squint** · 08-02-2010, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by randyc

Jazzaluk wasn't too clear on one point: when he mentions "rotate your strings ever so often", don't confuse that with CHANGING your strings. You must actually ROTATE them. Move the first string to the second string position, second to third string position and so on until you get to the sixth string which is then rotated to the old first string position.

Don't forget to file out the nut slots as the strings are rotated. Maybe sprinkle a few drops of bat milk inside the body every other rotation. Forum members only: I have two-ounce containers on sale ($45.00 each) or super-size your order if you call within the next ten minutes, TWO two-ounce containers for $45.00 plus S & H. (If that seems overly expensive, YOU try milking the little rascals !)

This stuff is entertaining but seriously, ONLY guitarists seem to buy into it and it makes all of us that play the instrument seem .... overly credulous. (I prefer to keep my reputation as a cranky cynic intact

)

Cheers,
Randy

Randy! You forgot the part about the funny hats and drinking a glass of warm fat!! LMAO!!

**randyc** · 08-02-2010, 11:41 PM

Dang, Eric, did you read that book too?

Cheers (and is that KB Heritage still hanging in your store?)
Randy

TommyD · 08-03-2010, 12:38 AM

I really hate to do this, but here goes . . .No less a master than Julian Bream said that in the case of classical guitars, and others that have a flat top and bottom, the sound and sustain begin to deteriorate the moment it is played for the first time. He claims that it was taught to him by a Spanish master luthier. The reason for the slow but steady degradation in sound is that playing vibrations slowly stretch the wood fibers, and what was once a tight, drum-like top actually becomes bigger. But having nowhere to go because it is glued all around the periphery, it just becomes floppy and loses its resonance over time. Bream says the luthier unglued one of Bream's own older guitar tops and removed it whole. When they laid it back where it was supposed to go, it was bigger than the "hole" it was supposed to fill.
The luthier re-cut the top and re-installed it, and because it now had the tension that was originally built into it when new, it sounded great again.
Plywood arch tops being plywood arch tops, I don't suppose that this physical change occurs as it does in classical and other "acoustic" guitars which have thin, one-piece, spruce, cedar, or cypress tops (latter used in some flamenco guitars).

tommy/

**Steve Hoffman** · 08-03-2010, 02:16 AM

So collectors are right, don't play your guitars, just look at them.

Wise words.

**itsall4you** · 08-03-2010, 05:43 AM

I get what you guys are trying to say but Benedetto endorses the product.. And I think it just may be me but i think he might know what he's doing...

TommyD · 08-03-2010, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by itsall4you

I get what you guys are trying to say but Benedetto endorses the product.. And I think it just may be me but i think he might know what he's doing...

What product?
T/

**lindydanny** · 08-03-2010, 10:36 AM

Any product if the $$$ is right.

Hell, pay me enough and say things that go against physics and established lutheir and woodworking knowledge too. It happens all the time.

~DB

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 08-03-2010, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by lindydanny

Any product if the $$$ is right.

Hell, pay me enough and say things that go against physics and established lutheir and woodworking knowledge too. It happens all the time.

~DB

Maybe we should make some claims and start some rumors?

I find that chambered bodies sound better if they are filled with nitrogen instead of air!

**Papadoc** · 08-03-2010, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Maybe we should make some claims and start some rumors?

I find that chambered bodies sound better if they are filled with nitrogen instead of air!

Yes, and that way it doesn't bend if you play up the neck too fast.

Archie · 08-03-2010, 02:00 PM

If you fill it with helium it will go up an octave.

**Squint** · 08-03-2010, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by randyc

Dang, Eric, did you read that book too?

Cheers (and is that KB Heritage still hanging in your store?)
Randy

Yes, the Super KB is still here. Kenny (Yeah, we're pals...)

He's just waiting for me to call and tell him when to come in and either meet the buyer or at least talk to him over the phone while he signs a personal autograph on a pic of him with this guitar.

He should be in next Saturday if he's not gigging or teaching.

I plugged the Super KB into a Carr Viceroy and all I can say is that it has to be one of the DEEPEST sounding guitars I've played in a long time. I was really surprised. She's strung with flatwounds and is just freakin HUGE sounding. I'll be sure to ask Kenny why he's selling it, but I think it's just that he has so many guitars right now.

Here's a teaser...

**randyc** · 08-03-2010, 06:06 PM

Just GORGEOUS ! Thanks, Eric.

**cosmic gumbo** · 08-03-2010, 09:00 PM

A violin gets better the older it is and the more it's played. That's why you can't construct a new violin that sounds as good as a 400 year old Stradivarius. Why wouldn't it be the same for a guitar with a solid wood top? It's all about molecular physics.

**randyc** · 08-03-2010, 09:10 PM

See the article that Billkath posted from Gryphon Strings - blind testing couldn't reveal the accoustic difference between two old guitars (same model, same age), one stored and not played, the other played regularly. Moisture is lost and resins solidify - both processes occur over time. The difference is age, not "exercise".

That's why I've decided to stop exercising and just get old.

**lpdeluxe** · 08-03-2010, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

A violin gets better the older it is and the more it's played. That's why you can't construct a new violin that sounds as good as a 400 year old Stradivarius. Why wouldn't it be the same for a guitar with a solid wood top? It's all about molecular physics.

What did that Strad sound like 400 years ago? We don't know. Apparently it sounded pretty damn good, or it wouldn't still be around. Paganini certainly liked them: was he saying to himself, "damn, this'll be KILLER in the 21st Century?" Nope.

There's no, as in ZERO, evidence of what a Strad "used" to sound like. Until someone can demonstrate this, your argument is meaningless.

**randyc** · 08-03-2010, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

... Paganini certainly liked them: was he saying to himself, "damn, this'll be KILLER in the 21st Century?" ...

Dang, John, you did it again: made wine spew out of my nose !

TommyD · 08-03-2010, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

A violin gets better the older it is and the more it's played. That's why you can't construct a new violin that sounds as good as a 400 year old Stradivarius. Why wouldn't it be the same for a guitar with a solid wood top? It's all about molecular physics.

"molecular physics"?? Want to explain the topic to us?
And a violin is not a flat-topped guitar, and cannot be compared in terms of what happens with age.
tommy/

**frogeye** · 08-04-2010, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

It's all about molecular physics.

Hm, no pun intended, but for me personally it's all about playing guitar, drinking beer, and a few other beautiful things in life that I don't want to describe here.

**freddy j** · 08-04-2010, 02:10 PM

maple doen't have resins, no north american hardwoods do. no offense . the biggest difference in wood, is that which has been left to dry in a natural, and controlled way, vs. that which is kiln dryed. the latter while expedient for the commerce of woodcraft, does take something away. i would venture statement here, no offense to anyone, if no one has yet to fiquire out the recipe for a strad violin, i think its safe to assume, all of it will remain largely conjecture, as well as a mystery. gotta love it

**praesentire** · 08-04-2010, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by freddy j

maple doen't have resins, no north american hardwoods do.

I assumed all trees contained resin to some degree. I gotta check my sources.

**randyc** · 08-04-2010, 07:01 PM

We could spare making this a research project by using the generic term "sap".

TommyD · 08-04-2010, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by randyc

We could spare making this a research project by using the generic term "sap".

No, we can't, because the term "sap" is no longer generic. It is reserved for the inhabitants of a certain western hemisphere nation who allow their elected representatives to sh*t all over them while continuing to re-elect them ad infinitum.
tommy/

**freddy j** · 08-04-2010, 07:33 PM

no argument from me on what they used to sound like. kinda like stating the obvious, isn't it? people have seem to spent a lot of time , and money trying to fiquire it out ? maybe it is just 400 years, and nothing else?

**billkath** · 08-04-2010, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by TommyD

No, we can't, because the term "sap" is no longer generic. It is reserved for the inhabitants of a certain western hemisphere nation who allow their elected representatives to sh*t all over them while continuing to re-elect them ad infinitum.
tommy/

Bloody hell, Tommy-my computer monitor is now sprayed with my after-gig drinkie-a particularly nice cabernet sauvignon!!!!

**Papadoc** · 08-04-2010, 09:40 PM

Stradovari was considered one of the great instrument makers of his own time. His violins and violas were in great demand while he was alive. He kept his techniques secret because he knew he had some proprietary advantage. We do not know what that advantage was, but we do know that his instruments were exceptional before they had 400 years on them. They remain the greatest sounding violins in the world. Why? No one knows.