Preamp Pedal Advice Wanted

[JazzPadd]

I’m going to go with the Caitlinbread 5F6 it’s one of their tweed style preamps, it’s got 3 band EQ, used ones on the Guitar Center website and hopefully I can resell it close to cost if it’s not for me.

That sounds like a good choice, Allan, it’s simple, light and elegant. I hope it works out well.

[Christian Miller]

Blues Jr is only 1 input and the SM55 is part of the vintage vibe. (No switch on my SM55)

Not trying to be dismissive or contrarian. I’ve put a lot of thought into this, but I’m happy to discuss why I want to do it the way I asked.

If this fails, I’ll look into an acoustic/mic combo amp. But it’s easier to try a pedal with stuff I already own.

I’ve not tried the Junior Barnyard through a PA but maybe that’s worth a go if you are going for a more 1940s type tone?

Anyone tried this?

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[GuyBoden]

That second one sounds too complicated for me. Guitar straight into a tube amp is what I like. But I’m sacrificing that for an easier load out. I’m beat after 3 hours of playing.

The Valeton Gp-5 is simple, once you setup the NAM file on your phone app.

You turn the pedal on and turn the volume up or down.

There are two knobs and a foot pedal.

But, I've only used the volume knob since setting up the NAM files a few weeks ago.

Vintage 1939 Gibson EH-150 NAM File.
Gibson EH-150 1939 NAM Profiles by @joels

Edit: I'm only stating what is available nowadays.

[Jim Soloway]

Has anyone tried the Boss IR-2? It has a bunch of amp models and a full set of tone controls (small but I think probably useable). I like the idea of never having to go into software to do the basic editing.

[pcjazz]

My goal is less overall trips to the car after the gig. I already have a lightweight amp option, But Guitar, amp, PA, backpack and mic stand isn't a single trip. If I change the amp to a preamp-pedal, I'll have a free hand and a single trip.

Folding handcart.

[Jim Soloway]

Another option is the Quilter Superblock US. As I understand it, it doesn't require a speaker load and you can use it as a preamp with the line out.

[rpjazzguitar]

The Boss IR-2 feature set looks good, but I'm not confident about it.

For one, I never liked the amp emulations in the ME series, 50, 70, 80 or 90.

The IR capability is interesting but I don't see how it's useful for gigging. Having something sound good at home is no guarantee it will sound good anywhere else. And, if the IR is part of the problem, how are you going to fix it on a gig? It strikes me a little like going to a pharmacy for an OTC medication and finding all the bottles in the store labeled with meaningless names and no indication of what the medicine inside the bottle actually is.

[pcjazz]

I’ve not tried the Junior Barnyard through a PA but maybe that’s worth a go if you are going for a more 1940s type tone?

Anyone tried this?

I have. It’s not bad but I prefer the greater subtlety of the JJ-150 which I run in front of a Yamaha StagePas battery-powered PA, having finally found a noiseless 9-volt battery box to power the pedal. This in a big band, playing a 1938 Epi Triumph with DeArmond. Pedal usually off for rhythm, on for solos.

Incidentally, our keyboard player forgot to bring an amp to today’s rehearsal, so plugged into the Yamaha which turned out to have sufficient juice to power both instruments for a couple of hours at volumes suitable to an 18-piece band.

[Hammertone]

I like the Koch OD '63. Very simple 2 channel box with a 12AX7. Maybe $150-200 used. They also make a "Superlead" - same thing, with some different voicing that is irrelevant if you play clean or just a bit dirty.
I run mine into one of two open-back cabs - either a 1x12" 8 ohm cab or a 1x12"+1x10" 4 ohm cab. Each cab has a 100 watt Hotone "Loudster" power amp velcroed to its floor. Dead simple, light, looks great on stage, works like a charm.

That's a cool system.

The dino-cabs do sound great, but they are really just ... a reminder.

[MarkL]

Another option is the Quilter Superblock US. As I understand it, it doesn't require a speaker load and you can use it as a preamp with the line out.

I have a Superblock US, and I occasionally run it into an acoustic amp or PA using the XLR line out. Cost ($300+ new) is well above OP's range, even used.

Less expensive options I sometimes use are a Blackstone Department 10 tube boost (about $200) and a Quilter Phantom Block (about $120). The Dept. 10 is a good compromise into an acoustic amp or PA (I like it with a drive pedal for fusion, or with some mild compression for extra sweetness and sustain). The Phantom Block is more limiting - I have only used it once on a gig (it was fine), but I keep mine handy as a backup because it is small, inexpensive and seems dependable.

I generally like Fender black panel (DR or larger) and play clean, so I can't comment on how close they get to tweed emulation. I have heard good things about Hagerman's tube boost and preamp pedals but haven't tried one or heard one live.

Hope this helps.

[AllanAllen]

The Valeton Gp-5 is simple, once you setup the NAM file on your phone app.

You turn the pedal on and turn the volume up or down.

There are two knobs and a foot pedal.

But, I've only used the volume knob since setting up the NAM files a few weeks ago.

Vintage 1939 Gibson EH-150 NAM File.
Gibson EH-150 1939 NAM Profiles by @joels

Edit: I'm only stating what is available nowadays.

So I get to have my data mined by the guitar pedal company too. Sweet. Love the future, love being a product.

[Stringswinger]

Another option is the Quilter Superblock US. As I understand it, it doesn't require a speaker load and you can use it as a preamp with the line out.

+1 on the Superblock US. This used, will cost in the low 200's. but what a great pedal! It can be used as a preamp with a LOT of tone shaping possibilities, and it can be used in a no amp situation, and it can be used as a backup amp if you have a problem with your open cab combo amp. This is an excellent tool for a working jazz guitarist on several fronts.

It is small, well-made and ticks a lot of boxes. And it is NOT digital (a big plus IMO)

[Christian Miller]

Tbh the Superblock US is kind of my main amp lol


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[AllanAllen]

The superblock might be the better choice. I'm not sure 25 watts will cut it for general use, I went from a microblock to a BAM200 because I didn't think the MB had enough push.

[Stringswinger]

The superblock might be the better choice. I'm not sure 25 watts will cut it for general use, I went from a microblock to a BAM200 because I didn't think the MB had enough push.

The 25 watts are surprisingly loud. I would say it is the equal to a Princeton, volume wise.

[AllanAllen]

The 25 watts are surprisingly loud. I would say it is the equal to a Princeton, volume wise.

Why would 25 watts in one amp be louder than 45 watts from a different amp of the same manufacturer?

To be more clear, it's the clean volume that the Microblock is lacking, well clean to a little dirty. I can crank it and have a loud distorted blues rock tone, but that's not what I'm looking for.

[Stringswinger]

Why would 25 watts in one amp be louder than 45 watts from a different amp of the same manufacturer?

To be more clear, it's the clean volume that the Microblock is lacking, well clean to a little dirty. I can crank it and have a loud distorted blues rock tone, but that's not what I'm looking for.

I believe that they are different architectures. The Superblock stays clean for quite a way up the dial. You can dial in some dirt with the gain knob, but I think it gets loud enough with clean headroom to do small gigs for sure and medium gigs if you don't have an overbearing drummer. I have never tried the Microblock.

Gitterbug has called for a Superblock with 50-100 watts and an internal power supply. That would be a superb amp, but it would be bigger. Where the Superblock really works though is that you can use it as a preamp or pedal amp with 9 volts instead of the bulky power supply if you are not driving a cabinet. The Superblock can fit in your gig bag as it is, so I see it as a great tool. And with the 3 band EQ, limiter and three different voices (not to mention cabinet simulation in the DI), it brings a lot to the table for dialing in whatever sound you want.

[Stringswinger]

Why would 25 watts in one amp be louder than 45 watts from a different amp of the same manufacturer?

To be more clear, it's the clean volume that the Microblock is lacking, well clean to a little dirty. I can crank it and have a loud distorted blues rock tone, but that's not what I'm looking for.

Searching the web, some users say that the 25W Superblock is actually louder than the 45W Microblock as Quilter claims the Superblock is 25 watts of tube power rather than the Microblocks 45 watts of solid-state power. I am not sure I believe any of that so YMMV.

[Sam Sherry]

Why would 25 watts in one amp be louder than 45 watts from a different amp of the same manufacturer?

Allan, your question calls for a geeky response. Sorry (but not too sorry).

Power vs volume is a logarithmic function.
Doubling volume is 6 dB. It takes not 2x the power, but 2-squared=4x the power.
So 45W is about 2-2.5dB louder than 25W, all other things being equal. Not tons o' louder. Closer to 'the same' than to 'lots louder.'

But there are plenty of speakers that are more sensitive than other speakers, which is to say that they put out more volume from the same amount of signal.
For example, you've got a nice old vintage Jensen with a sensitivity of, say, 92dB 1W/1M. You replace it with an Eminence Cannibus Rex that has a nominal sensitivity of 101+ dB 1M/1W. Your amp is suddenly moving more than double the air, even though it's the same wattage.

Finally, there's "tube power" versus "solid-state power." Tubes are measured with 5-10% distortion allowed on the signal. Solid-state amps and digital amps are measured at a fraction of a percent of distortion allowed on the signal. That's almost like apples and oranges. And it lets tubes amps sound louder per nominal Watt, because they're allowed to be less precise.

Above all this word of caution: This is an abbreviated response which skips more than it includes.

Is that a fair answer?

[Alter]

If going through a powered speaker you only need a preamp. I use a quilter phantom block. Tried replacing it with a tonex one but the quilter sounds way better to me. Playing through an rcf 708 mk5 powered speaker.

I should probably dig up my sansamp blonde and try it too, it'll probably be more versatile than the quilter. But I like the sound as it is, and I carry this rig 5-6 nights a week, sometimes two gigs a day (wedding + hotel), so real estate on my board is valuable. I have about 10 pedals there, pedaltrain jr plus guitar plus speaker. One trip to the gig using a small cart if it's far.

If it wasn't for looping octave bass sounds I'd keep doing these gigs with a Fender pro junior iv and be reaaally happy, but the bass is too much for it..

[MarkL]

The superblock might be the better choice. I'm not sure 25 watts will cut it for general use, I went from a microblock to a BAM200 because I didn't think the MB had enough push.

Al - The Superblock should be fine through the powered speaker you mentioned in the original post. It's a very useful piece of gear, and others may differ on this, but I wouldn't use mine as a power amp for anything other than small lower volume spaces (e.g., coffee shop) - and even then I'd use an efficient speaker cab and test carefully before gigging.

[Jim Soloway]

Speaking of Quilter, they also have the DirectAmp which is a true all-in-one guitar preamp. I don't know anyone who's actually tried it and it's a bit pricey but the feature set and the logic of the layout look really good ... both powerful and intuitive, a rare combination.

DirectAmp
– Quilter Labs

[AllanAllen]

Al - The Superblock should be fine through the powered speaker you mentioned in the original post. It's a very useful piece of gear, and others may differ on this, but I wouldn't use mine as a power amp for anything other than small lower volume spaces (e.g., coffee shop) - and even then I'd use an efficient speaker cab and test carefully before gigging.

I've got a Toob, i was playing gigs with the microblock into the toob, but swapped it for a BAM200. It would be cool to have one piece of gear I can run into the toob, or powered speaker depending on the situation. Then I could sell some of this other stuff that'll just end up in my closet.


Thanks to StringSwinger and Sam Sherry for insight on the wattage/volume question.

[rpjazzguitar]

It took me a while to convince myself that no amount of careful EQ could make my JBL Eon One Compact sound like a guitar amp. Or, at least, I couldn't figure it out.

Adding the Joyo American in front of the JBL solved that problem to my satisfaction. Would I prefer it to my favorite tube amp in an A/B comparison? I don't know. Can I get a good enough sound to forget about it and just play? Yes.

[sgosnell]

Quilter claims it's the equivalent of a 25 watt tube amp in terms of power and volume. That said, it's not all that loud through a Toob Metro, but it's very loud when using my Vibrolux Reverb as a cabinet. I think it sounds better than the VR, and i haven't fired that thing up in a long time. I use the cabinet, because the twin 10" speakers sound so good, and at 4 ohms in parallel, it's amazingly loud. The downside is that it's only available at home. I will not carry that monster anywhere, not even to another room, unless the boss should ever insist. I have a dolly available for that. The SBUS also sounds very good through the RE Stealth 10ER, with just a tiny touch of tweeter. Whichever cab, the SBUS is loud enough for my needs, but I can't speak for anyone else on that.