Suggestions for Replacement Speaker for DV Mark Jazz 12

[Mark Fowler]

I have a DV Mark Jazz 12 that I've had for many years but the speaker now has a distortion so I need to get something to replace it. It is out of warranty.

I contacted DV Mark awhile ago asking about buying a replacement speaker and they never responded (I followed up twice). So I'm now looking for another source for a suitable speaker.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

[Herbie]

Sorry to hear. Distortion might have multiple reasons, but if it is speaker, I would recommend Eminence Beta A12 – the same speaker I would recommend for any jazzy amp. Beta A-series is good for Polytones so I guess it might work with Your amp too.

[Mark Fowler]

Sorry to hear. Distortion might have multiple reasons, but if it is speaker....

I'm pretty sure it is the speaker. Headphone out has no distortion. When connected to an external speaker there is no distortion.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Herbie]

I'm pretty sure it is the speaker. Headphone out has no distortion. When connected to an external speaker there is no distortion.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Ok, good work! Is there screws holding the speaker? Could they be loosened?

[Gitterbug]

I'd look at a Jensen Tornado. As the story goes, years ago DV Mark contacted Jensen for some sample speakers. Half a year later, they were returned with thanks, after DV Mark had sprung up their own line of (MIC?) transducers. They're not outright copies, but that's all I can say in lack of technical details from DV Mark. They come in different colors, but with no clue as to what the differences are. The power handling is 150W as opposed 100W for the Tornado, but I have reason to believe that sensitivity is correspondingly lower. We don't even know the size of the voice coil; the very low weight points to a smallish magnet assembly. I've tried to eke out some info from DV Mark, with meager results. Looking at their current offering against a plethora of discontinued units, I wouldn't be surprised if there are no 12" speakers left.

If the Jensen name gives you goose bumps, I've had good results with Celestion's Neo Creamback and, even more so, the newer Neo V-Type. Those just aren't available in my neck of the woods the way Jensens are.

[Mark Fowler]

Ok, good work! Is there screws holding the speaker? Could they be loosened?

No, they are all tight. I've done extensive troubleshooting (I have a background in electronics and amp building) and I'm pretty sure it is the speaker. There was an incident when an effect that was plugged into the amp caused a very loud "Bzzzzzzpppp" due to a malfunction in the effect. Shortly after that I noticed the distortion.

Thanks for your ideas!

[Mark Fowler]

I'd look at a Jensen Tornado. As the story goes, years ago DV Mark contacted Jensen for some sample speakers. Half a year later, they were returned with thanks, after DV Mark had sprung up their own line of (MIC?) transducers. They're not outright copies, but that's all I can say in lack of technical details from DV Mark. They come in different colors, but with no clue as to what the differences are. The power handling is 150W as opposed 100W for the Tornado, but I have reason to believe that sensitivity is correspondingly lower. We don't even know the size of the voice coil; the very low weight points to a smallish magnet assembly. I've tried to eke out some info from DV Mark, with meager results. Looking at their current offering against a plethora of discontinued units, I wouldn't be surprised if there are no 12" speakers left.

If the Jensen name gives you goose bumps, I've had good results with Celestion's Neo Creamback and, even more so, the newer Neo V-Type. Those just aren't available in my neck of the woods the way Jensens are.

Thanks for such insightful feedback! I'll look into the Tornado.

[sgosnell]

I've heard that the speaker is securely held in place by an adhesive, and may be difficult to remove. That's just hearsay, though, and I've never tried to open up my Little Jazz. I also don't have a Jazz12, so take all that for what it's worth. Good luck with the work, and let us know how it turns out.

[Mark Fowler]

I've heard that the speaker is securely held in place by an adhesive, and may be difficult to remove. That's just hearsay, though, and I've never tried to open up my Little Jazz. I also don't have a Jazz12, so take all that for what it's worth. Good luck with the work, and let us know how it turns out.

Good to know - thanks for the heads up! I just googled this and found some people that also say this so it seems likely to be true. Good to know in advance that this could be an "interesting" repair but I'm game since right now the amp is not that usable.

I might try to do the removal before ordering the replacement in case things don't work out during the removal!

[arnie65]

If you want to keep the same weight of the amp, I would replace it with another Neodymium speaker to keep the weight down. The Celestion "Copperback" 12 Inch Neodymium speaker would be great for that; with tight lows, neutral mids, and tamed highs. My buddy used it on a Princeton Reverb, and it sounds amazing for jazz...



Arnie...

[Mark Fowler]

If you want to keep the same weight of the amp, I would replace it with another Neodymium speaker to keep the weight down. The Celestion "Copperback" 12 Inch Neodymium speaker would be great for that; with tight lows, neutral mids, and tamed highs. My buddy used it on a Princeton Reverb, and it sounds amazing for jazz...



Arnie...

Yes, maintaining the low weight would be ideal but would consider losing that feature if there is a good reason to go that way.

Anybody have a list of the available suitable neo speakers?

[BBGuitar]

Why not get it reconed?

[garybaldy]

Good to know - thanks for the heads up! I just googled this and found some people that also say this so it seems likely to be true..

Shakes one's head in despair!

[Mark Fowler]

Why not get it reconed?

That could be a possibility but I'm not sure if that is possible (I don't know much about reconing). Is there somewhere I could have that done for *this* speaker? The info from Gitterbug's post makes me think that specs for the speaker are not well known. So would that make it less likely to able to recone it?

[Gitterbug]

I'd be surprised if DV Mark glued in a 12" speaker. This, indeed, is the case with Little Jazz - a dubious practice IMHO.

I've already mentioned the two probably best-selling Neos, Jensen Tornado and Celestion Neo Creamback. This is my perception of aftermarket speakers at least. Fender has been/is using both in several combos, currently in the Tone Master versions. Fender also uses Jensen's N12K, which is more vintage/twangy voiced and less of a jazz speaker. The Neo Copperback stands out for its 250W power handling but you don't need that with your amp's 50W/8 ohm output. OTOH, Celestion's BN12-300S (300W) bass speaker is great for jazz guitar; in terms of construction, it's rather a guitar speaker with an extended bottom end.

Alas, I have no fresh experience with Eminence's current Neo offering for guitar, because the company has been virtually absent from the European market for years. I had a couple of Lil Texas units a decade ago but knew nothing about speakers then. On the bass side, Eminence is a market leader in Neo speakers. Not so for guitar, although strong in the ferrite-magnet territory, both retail and OEM. There are many other makers - several based in Italy alone - but their products tend to be more expensive and less accessible.

The country of manufacturing may weigh in, as a matter of principle and subject to US tariffs swings. Celestion is a Chinese-owned company, and most of the products come from PRC. Eminence also has a factory in China. Jensens are made in Italy.

Edit: Reconing is hardly an option. Even if the term may be misleading, in that the actual cone is not replaced, just re-suspended, it's a specialist job likely to cost a lot more than the 150$ +/- for a new Neo speaker. Plus, problem may be in the voice coil area.

[Mark Fowler]

I'd be surprised if DV Mark glued in a 12" speaker. This, indeed, is the case with Little Jazz - a dubious practice IMHO.

I've already mentioned the two probably best-selling Neos, Jensen Tornado and Celestion Neo Creamback. This is my perception of aftermarket speakers at least. Fender has been/is using both in several combos, currently in the Tone Master versions. Fender also uses Jensen's N12K, which is more vintage/twangy voiced and less of a jazz speaker. The Neo Copperback stands out for its 250W power handling but you don't need that with your amp's 50W/8 ohm output. OTOH, Celestion's BN12-300S (300W) bass speaker is great for jazz guitar; in terms of construction, it's rather a guitar speaker with an extended bottom end.

Alas, I have no fresh experience with Eminence's current Neo offering for guitar, because the company has been virtually absent from the European market for years. I had a couple of Lil Texas units a decade ago but knew nothing about speakers then. On the bass side, Eminence is a market leader in Neo speakers. Not so for guitar, although strong in the ferrite-magnet territory, both retail and OEM. There are many other makers - several based in Italy alone - but their products tend to be more expensive and less accessible.

The country of manufacturing may weigh in, as a matter of principle and subject to US tariffs swings. Celestion is a Chinese-owned company, and most of the products come from PRC. Eminence also has a factory in China. Jensens are made in Italy.

Edit: Reconing is hardly an option. Even if the term may be misleading, in that the actual cone is not replaced, just re-suspended, it's a specialist job likely to cost a lot more than the 150$ +/- for a new Neo speaker. Plus, problem may be in the voice coil area.

Wow! Thanks for all the info!

Sounds like the Jensen Tornado is the way to go for what I'm aiming for. I see there are several variations of the Tornado - I'm guessing the "Classic" is what I should be looking at, correct?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I have a DV Mark Jazz 12 that I've had for many years but the speaker now has a distortion

You haven't described what you're calling distortion. What exactly are you hearing?

It's very unlikely that the speaker is distorting on its own without having been subjected to some kind of physical abuse. IME, the most common causes of what are thought to be speaker sound problems (after electronic faults in the amp) are loose mounting bolts, other loose parts in the cabinet that are vibrating, and foreign material that gets between the back of the cone and the frame. I've seen cables, sheet music, paper bags, napkins, etc etc do this when they were tossed in the back of the cab and forgotten about. Ferrous metallic things can end up held to the underside of the magnet. The first thing I'd do is check carefully for anything inside the speaker itself or the back of the cab that's contacting the cone (front or back). Even the amp chassis could be vibrating and causing noise. I've even seen speaker wires that were wedged inside the speaker's frame and hitting the back of the cone. Then check the speaker mounting hardware to be sure it's tight.

The failure modes that actually cause distortion in a speaker are essentially all some kind of damage to one or more of its parts. Torn surrounds and cones can cause buzzing if there's loose material flopping around. A simple hole in the cone will probably not cause audible distortion unless it's huge. The dust cap in the center is purely protective of the voice coil - it keeps debris out that could interfere with voice coil motion, and that would cause distortion. But it wouldn't cause distortion unless it's been pushed into the voice coil and is actually interfering with voice coil motion.

The voice coil can get knocked off axis by a sharp blow to the cabinet (e.g. dropping it). It can get overheated and suffer damage to the windings, insulation, etc. These things cause rubbing of the voice coil against the housing and produce distortion by physically interfering with normal cone motion. But the most common cause of these problems is hitting it with too much power or blocking air flow around the speaker if it's in an open back cab. A Jazz 12 doesn't make enough power to overheat the stock speaker. Maybe if you run it wide open for hours at a time with your jacket stuffed in the open back, you could damage the voice coil - but I seriously doubt that you have.

All of the above are compatible with noise that is only heard when the internal cabinet speaker is in use. Extraneous noises like these would not be heard through headphones or an external speaker.

[Gitterbug]

Classic is a safe bet. The Special Edition may be even better for jazz, as both the lowest and highest frequencies have been suppressed a little. The difference is small. The SE version comes with a "manly" yet redundant magnet cover, which adds a bit weight. It's roughly a pound heavier than the DV Mark original. The Celestions land in between.

[Herbie]

I hadn’t hears the Markku’s story about DV speaker development, interesting!

Now I see that DV sells speakers, now only problem is which of these is closest to Jazz 12 original speaker?

Search Results for “DV NEO SpeakerS” – DVMark

Then there is the question that have You been satisfied with the sound before the speaker started to distort or are You wishing an improvement. Although modern Neodymium speakers are very convincing, I have decided to carry a 1-2 kg more and stay with ceramic or alnico speakers only for no-compromise sound.

I read that some have found their joy replacing the Jazz 12’s original speaker with Cannabis Rex.

Lot of options! Only Your ears know what is best!

[Mark Fowler]

You haven't described what you're calling distortion. What exactly are you hearing?

It's very unlikely that the speaker is distorting on its own without having been subjected to some kind of physical abuse.

As I mentioned in one of my follow-up posts: "There was an incident when an effect that was plugged into the amp caused a very loud "Bzzzzzzpppp" due to a malfunction in the effect. Shortly after that I noticed the distortion." Couple that with the fact that when this was shipped new to me the power cord was just stuck into the back and was bouncing around... no evidence of damage to the speaker then but it is possible that there was some small non-noticable damage then and then the "Bzzzzzzpppp" that came later caused more damage.

I've been living elsewhere for the past 6 months so it has been awhile since I've played the amp so I can't really describe the sound but it does not sound like distortion I'm familiar with coming from electronics. Back when I did my testing I did think about the possibility you mention that my test with an external speaker might not show up the problem since the external speaker would not be vibrating the chassis like the internal speaker does. I may try to test that further by stacking the amp on top of the speaker cabinet. But that will have to wait until tomorrow.

[DawgBone]

Edit: Reconing is hardly an option. Even if the term may be misleading, in that the actual cone is not replaced, just re-suspended, it's a specialist job likely to cost a lot more than the 150$ +/- for a new Neo speaker. Plus, problem may be in the voice coil area.

Not sure where you get the idea that the cone isn't replaced? The recone kits include the cone, voice coil, and dust cover. The speaker cone and voice coil are glued together during assembly, as well as to the edge of the frame. To replace the voice coil means cutting the cone out. I've never seen any other way of doing it but I'm not an expert in speaker rebuilds either.

OP sounds to me like you likely have a coil rub. You can remove the speaker and use your hand to depress the cone EVENLY with your ear close and you can often hear the coil rubbing. I have blown many speakers so have done that many times to determine if my coil is shot.

Unless it's a rare vintage speaker it's probably easier to throw it in the trash and buy another rather than recone it unless you can find someone local. The to-from shipping will take it to the $ level where you could just buy new. I would still check around your area if you are near a metro, there are usually one or two shops who still do that kind of work.

[Woody Sound]

I'd look at a Jensen Tornado. As the story goes, years ago DV Mark contacted Jensen for some sample speakers. Half a year later, they were returned with thanks, after DV Mark had sprung up their own line of (MIC?) transducers. They're not outright copies, but that's all I can say in lack of technical details from DV Mark. They come in different colors, but with no clue as to what the differences are. The power handling is 150W as opposed 100W for the Tornado, but I have reason to believe that sensitivity is correspondingly lower. We don't even know the size of the voice coil; the very low weight points to a smallish magnet assembly. I've tried to eke out some info from DV Mark, with meager results. Looking at their current offering against a plethora of discontinued units, I wouldn't be surprised if there are no 12" speakers left.

If the Jensen name gives you goose bumps, I've had good results with Celestion's Neo Creamback and, even more so, the newer Neo V-Type. Those just aren't available in my neck of the woods the way Jensens are.

Gitter, you are a great resource for us here.

[Gitterbug]

Thanks, Woody! My comment about reconing missed a qualification like "not always" or "not necessarily" - some people know how to rejuvenate old speakers by replacing/reinforcing tired suspension with some elastic compound. Also, minor holes can be fixed with a small amount of elastic contact cement. (It would be interesting to know the amount of cones that have been accidentally pierced by a screwdriver in the mounting phase. Neo speakers are much easier to hold steady for the first critical bolt.)

One more point to OP: Most speaker manufacturers still use the flimsy connecting tabs which are a relic from the days when radio sets were hand soldered one by one. Matching 5.2 mm receptacles are hard to find, and the more common 4.8 mm is a tad too narrow. DV Mark speakers sport thicker and wider 1/4" tabs requiring 6.3 mm connectors, which tend to remain loose on other speakers. Soldering is of course what many would advocate, but not within everyone's reach.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

……

We still don’t know what kind of distortion is being heard. Is it a fuzziness in the tone, some kind of extraneous noise (knocking? buzzing? fizzle? other?), odd frequency components (shrill? boomy?), or something else? The nature of the sound is often a clue to its source.

[Mark Fowler]

We still don’t know what kind of distortion is being heard. Is it a fuzziness in the tone, some kind of extraneous noise (knocking? buzzing? fizzle? other?), odd frequency components (shrill? boomy?), or something else? The nature of the sound is often a clue to its source.

Well.... I just played it and can NOT replicate the issue I had back in October right before I headed off for warmer temps for the winter. So the amp was sitting in my upstate NY house for about 6 months at a temp of about 55 F.

So for now I'll just keep playing it and wait and see if the problem returns.

Here is what I *can* say about the sound as I remember it:

• "Knocking".... no
• "Buzzing".... no
• "Odd Frequency Conponents"... no
• "Fizzle".... not sure what that is.
• "Fuzziness in tone".... yes, that is a good description. Not all the time... but on the loudest parts of playing there was some fuzz introduced to the sound.

Not present through headphones nor with an external speaker. Yes, it could be vibration-induced issue in the electronics but I did not test for that. Seems most likely a speaker issue of some sort.