TI Jazz Swings

[58flame]

If you're literally having to tune every 30 seconds there is something very wrong, to be sure. One other possibility: if this is happening on the wound strings but not the plain strings, then you've maybe got an installation problem. TI Swings have a round rather than hex core and the wrapping wire needs to be "locked" onto the core when installed, otherwise the core wire can slip inside the wrappings resulting in detuning and deadened tone. I've learned this the hard way... I didn't think of it because in my experience the problem was immediately evident rather than a few weeks later (I was installing Pyramid Golds into Fender style tuners, so I cut the string to length first and it basically unraveled. Oops!).

How To Install Round Core Guitar Strings

Proper String Installation | DR Strings

Above I described my tuning method. I wind them on, tune up several times with stretching and then bend and snip.

Again - they stay in tune for a month. I pick it up off the stand in the morning and it's in tune. That condition has lasted one month approximately.

Next set is chromes and let's see how long.

[zephyrregent]

I think I got them on Amazon. I have one more set. They sound great and play great, just not for that long. I'm pretty sure they are legit as I've used them in the past. They feel exactly the same.

I think it might be my chemistry.

My friend and student of 20 years had some kind of condition with his skin that put oil or something on the strings. He'd clean them all the time.

[58flame]

And you are tuning up to pitch right? Flatten the string and then go up? Never try to take a sharp string down to pitch.

Sorry if this is obvious to you. Sometimes it’s best to start with basic things when troubleshooting.

I'm aware of this thank you. No offense taken. I've been playing for 40 years.

[58flame]

My friend and student of 20 years had some kind of condition with his skin that put oil or something on the strings. He'd clean them all the time.

My dad eats through silver plating. He's a retired band director and he knows his chemistry is bad. He was hell on flutes and clarinets. But I've never worn the plating off my trombone mouthpieces - gold or silver. I've been playing the same gold plated piece since high school 35 years ago.

I need to make this a serious experiment because my playing is regular.

[floatingpickup]

I have TI Jazz Swings on most of my guitars. They seem to last forever. About a year on the guitars that I play a lot.
Keith

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Above I described my tuning method. I wind them on, tune up several times with stretching and then bend and snip.

Again - they stay in tune for a month. I pick it up off the stand in the morning and it's in tune. That condition has lasted one month approximately.

You haven't answered any of the questions I posed:

You left out a few important facts. Is it only the wound strings, or is it all of them? What kind of guitar is it? What kind of bridge and tailpiece does it have? What kind of tuners does it have and are they locking?

"I wind them on" tells us nothing. If you're just pulling the string through the post hole and winding it around the post a few times, you may not be securing it well enough. There are several ways of "locking" the string against the post on a standard tuner - this helps keep the string fom slipping. Here's just one example:

Most importantly, do the unwound strings also go flat within minutes, or is it just the wound ones? ?

Is the guitar an archtop? If so, does it have a slotted tailpiece or do the strings just pass straight through holes to the bridge? Do the ball ends seat fully against the tailpiece slots or crossbar, or does the silk wrap make them too thick to seat fully?

Is the guitar designed so that the silk wrap on the free end remains within the post hole? If you have to pull the entire wrap through and the segment within the hole is not wrapped, are you crushing or breaking the wrap or the core where it bends around the edge of the post hole? Are you cutting the end off through the silk or below it? Do you pull it hard to create a bend where it comes out of the post or do you leave it straight and loose?

Cunamara offers two good sources for stringing options. If none of these things works, I'd try another set of string to see if the problem goes away. Chromes are stiffer than TIs, for example. So they'll hold a bend more firmly at the post hole and are less likely to slip back without locking the end under the turns around the post. But so many of us use TIs on so many different kinds of guitars that it's hard to believe the strings are at fault.

[entresz]

The TIs on my Telecaster are several years old. They do sound dead, as you would expect, but they have no issues holding tune.

[58flame]

You haven't answered any of the questions I posed:


"I wind them on" tells us nothing. If you're just pulling the string through the post hole and winding it around the post a few times, you may not be securing it well enough. There are several ways of "locking" the string against the post on a standard tuner - this helps keep the string fom slipping. Here's just one example:

Most importantly, do the unwound strings also go flat within minutes, or is it just the wound ones? ?

Is the guitar an archtop? If so, does it have a slotted tailpiece or do the strings just pass straight through holes to the bridge? Do the ball ends seat fully against the tailpiece slots or crossbar, or does the silk wrap make them too thick to seat fully?

Is the guitar designed so that the silk wrap on the free end remains within the post hole? If you have to pull the entire wrap through and the segment within the hole is not wrapped, are you crushing or breaking the wrap or the core where it bends around the edge of the post hole? Are you cutting the end off through the silk or below it? Do you pull it hard to create a bend where it comes out of the post or do you leave it straight and loose?

Cunamara offers two good sources for stringing options. If none of these things works, I'd try another set of string to see if the problem goes away. Chromes are stiffer than TIs, for example. So they'll hold a bend more firmly at the post hole and are less likely to slip back without locking the end under the turns around the post. But so many of us use TIs on so many different kinds of guitars that it's hard to believe the strings are at fault.

This time it was G, B, and E. Again, the strings stayed in tune for almost month. Had I wrapped them improperly, or broken a core, they wouldn't stay in tune at all. Regular grover tuners. Guitar is Guild Benedetto JS Award.

I'm beginning to think it's a chemistry issue. Chromes are on it now, let's see how long they last.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Guitar is Guild Benedetto JS Award……I'm beginning to think it's a chemistry issue. Chromes are on it now, let's see how long they last.

Odd for sure! Both Howard Paul and Jackson Evans at Benedetto have used heavy TI flats for a long time.

It’ll be interesting to see how you do with Chromes on it. But there are more differences with TIs & Chromes than the wrap wire, so it’s hard to identify a specific cause if Chromes are fine. It’s also odd that the unwound strings went flat along with one wound string. I assume you’re using the gold tone brass plated TI plains, so the winding material and whether or not a string is wound almost certainly have nothing to do with the problem.

How flat are we talking about - a few cents or half a tone?

[58flame]

Odd for sure! Both Howard Paul and Jackson Evans at Benedetto have used heavy TI flats for a long time.

It’ll be interesting to see how you do with Chromes on it. But there are more differences with TIs & Chromes than the wrap wire, so it’s hard to identify a specific cause if Chromes are fine. It’s also odd that the unwound strings went flat along with one wound string. I assume you’re using the gold tone brass plated TI plains, so the winding material and whether or not a string is wound almost certainly have nothing to do with the problem.

How flat are we talking about - a few cents or half a tone?

Enough that it bothers me. Few cents, not a half step.

I'm definitely going to circle back with how long these chromes last. I also put a set pyramid flats on my Gibson JS the same day. I think I got about 3 weeks out of the last set of pyramids. I expect these to last a bit longer as I don't play the Gibson nearly as much.

[AllanAllen]

So, let me get this timeline straight because it feels like I'm having a reading comprehension issue.

You changed the strings and tuned them. Then for a month the guitar was in tune with no adjustments from you. Now after a month you have to tune the guitar for the first time, and you think this is a problem?

[joe2758]

No I think he said he now has to tune every 40 seconds

[58flame]

So, let me get this timeline straight because it feels like I'm having a reading comprehension issue.

You changed the strings and tuned them. Then for a month the guitar was in tune with no adjustments from you. Now after a month you have to tune the guitar for the first time, and you think this is a problem?

Here's what happened 2 months in a row. Put new strings on. Tune it up and play. Next day, take it off the stand, tune it up and play. Repeat for one month.

One day, tune it up and play turns into tune it up repeatedly because it won't stay in tune.

[John A.]

Here's what happened 2 months in a row. Put new strings on. Tune it up and play. Next day, take it off the stand, tune it up and play. Repeat for one month.

One day, tune it up and play turns into tune it up repeatedly because it won't stay in tune.

While playing, how long does it take before it goes out of tune and how badly? All my guitars, regardless of string gauge/type go out of tune in response to temperature and humidity changes and playing to at least some degree. If, under steady conditions, a guitar requires constant re-tuning during a playing session I might attribute that to the strings having deteriorated. But if it's just a matter of the guitar needing to be tuned at the beginning and tweaked a little here and there during the session I wouldn't. To me, that's just normal guitar string behavior.

[joe2758]

"It was in tune when I bought it." Sorry. Maybe someone here will see it for the first time. probably not haha

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

While playing, how long does it take before it goes out of tune and how badly? All my guitars, regardless of string gauge/type go out of tune in response to temperature and humidity changes and playing to at least some degree. If, under steady conditions, a guitar requires constant re-tuning during a playing session I might attribute that to the strings having deteriorated. But if it's just a matter of the guitar needing to be tuned at the beginning and tweaked a little here and there during the session I wouldn't. To me, that's just normal guitar string behavior.

See post #35, John - it’s a “few cents, not a half step”. I haven’t the faintest idea what to make of this. I’ve never had a guitar that stayed in perfect tune for a month despite being played daily. Minor retuning is the norm. I had to adjust one string or another a few times during a 3 hour gig this past Sunday.

We’re talking about a Guild Benedetto - the whole thing just seems very very odd. Something tells me that we’ll never know what is going on.

[AllanAllen]

Something tells me that we’ll never know what is going on.

Yeah, whatever is going on, hopefully some new stings fixes it.

[Rodney Gene]

All my guitars, regardless of string gauge/type go out of tune in response to temperature and humidity changes and playing to at least some degree....

But if it's just a matter of the guitar needing to be tuned at the beginning and tweaked a little here and there during the session I wouldn't. To me, that's just normal guitar string behavior...

This is my interpretation as well.

I have many guitars, and I keep 7–8 out at any given time simply because that’s all I have room for in my studio. Here in Texas, we use a lot of A/C. We also use both the heater and the A/C in the same day—it can be 50/50. We deal with significant humidity, which is countered by the A/C, and then the cycle repeats. That said, some guitars I pick up after a few days are still tightly in tune, while others are flat or sharp. But once tuned, they typically stay stable, with anywhere from no drift to a small degree of sharpness or flatness within the day.

This may include short-term nut binding, requiring a quick pull, even on guitars that are precisely set up for the string type and gauge. Humidity—or lack of it—can affect everything. It’s also common during seasonal shifts to make a quick truss rod adjustment if tuning becomes an issue.

The issue I’m seeing here, however, is that the OP says the guitars are fine for a month or so with new strings, and then the trouble starts. For me that still points to a metabolic factor / personal chemistry as bonafide culprit. Dirty or acidic strings won't maintain consistent pitch /tension.

[58flame]

While playing, how long does it take before it goes out of tune and how badly? All my guitars, regardless of string gauge/type go out of tune in response to temperature and humidity changes and playing to at least some degree. If, under steady conditions, a guitar requires constant re-tuning during a playing session I might attribute that to the strings having deteriorated. But if it's just a matter of the guitar needing to be tuned at the beginning and tweaked a little here and there during the session I wouldn't. To me, that's just normal guitar string behavior.

Normal string behavior for one month. Yes it needs tuned here and there. But once it's there, it stays there while I'm playing. Then one day, I'm tuning every minute.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Normal string behavior for one month. Yes it needs tuned here and there. But once it's there, it stays there while I'm playing. Then one day, I'm tuning every minute.

This is a long shot. But if you have the Grover tuners that I've seen on a few of these (or similar tuning machine heads), you may find that they're loose. Most of the time if this happens, you just need to tighten the screw in the stem a bit. Since they're all the same age and have had the same usage, it wouldn't be surprising that they all developed a little slack over time.

[John A.]

See post #35, John - it’s a “few cents, not a half step”. I haven’t the faintest idea what to make of this. I’ve never had a guitar that stayed in perfect tune for a month despite being played daily. Minor retuning is the norm. I had to adjust one string or another a few times during a 3 hour gig this past Sunday.

We’re talking about a Guild Benedetto - the whole thing just seems very very odd. Something tells me that we’ll never know what is going on.

Normal string behavior for one month. Yes it needs tuned here and there. But once it's there, it stays there while I'm playing. Then one day, I'm tuning every minute.

I give up. I think all you can do is try other strings to see what happens, but I wouldn't fully dismiss giving the guitar a thorough going-over to check for mechanical/slipping going. That and actually measure how badly out of tune it's going? A guitar going a "few cents" out of tune under some conditions strikes me as normal (e.g., due to temperature changes if playing outdoors or in a room where sunlight shifts from direct to shadow while you're playing).

[nyc chaz]

This is a long shot. But if you have the Grover tuners that I've seen on a few of these (or similar tuning machine heads), you may find that they're loose. Most of the time if this happens, you just need to tighten the screw in the stem a bit. Since they're all the same age and have had the same usage, it wouldn't be surprising that they all developed a little slack over time.

Good thought.The same thing happened to me a few years ago and like you said just tightening the screw problem solved.

[John A.]

This is a long shot. But if you have the Grover tuners that I've seen on a few of these (or similar tuning machine heads), you may find that they're loose. Most of the time if this happens, you just need to tighten the screw in the stem a bit. Since they're all the same age and have had the same usage, it wouldn't be surprising that they all developed a little slack over time.

But that wouldn't cause the string to go out of tune, though it might make bumping the tuner inadvertently more likely to do so.

[58flame]

This is a long shot. But if you have the Grover tuners that I've seen on a few of these (or similar tuning machine heads), you may find that they're loose. Most of the time if this happens, you just need to tighten the screw in the stem a bit. Since they're all the same age and have had the same usage, it wouldn't be surprising that they all developed a little slack over time.

You mean the tuner button screw? I'm fairly anal about keeping those snug. If I feel a little wiggle I'm getting the truss rod wrench out of the case (it has a screwdriver).

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

You mean the tuner button screw? I'm fairly anal about keeping those snug. If I feel a little wiggle I'm getting the truss rod wrench out of the case (it has a screwdriver).

Yes. On Grovers and several other brands, that screw also controls how tight the worm gear is against the gear at the bottom of the post.

If you’ve been tightening them more than once a year, you’re probably being too compulsive about it. I don’t think I’ve had to tighten one more than a dozen times in my life. If you’ve been tightening several times a year, you probably overtightened it. This compresses the crush washer between the button shaft and the body of the tuner, eventually making it impossible to tighten enough to hold tune. If that’s the problem, replace the washers and don’t overtighten the screws.