Heritage Golden Eagle - acoustic use?

[Mick-7]

Most of their archtops were solid pressed tops and specs changed so I would confirm its carved.

Confirming it may be difficult though since most sellers will be unable to distinguish solid wood from pressed wood. I've also seen sellers state that the back and sides are solid maple when I know for a fact they are laminates.

If I had up to $4k to spend, I'd buy a Landscape, but I'm looking for their 15" model (AR-201), this is their 17" archtop:
LANDSCAPE AT1 model Archtop Guitar w-HB Pickup and OHSC — Guitars 'n Jazz
Landscape AR-101 Full Acoustic Jazz Guitar Made in Japan | Reverb.com

I have their nylon string electric model: Landscape ELEACO SE-01

[Jthompson48]

If you're ok with 16, the sweet 16 is worth considering. I have a 90s S16 with a floater that I really like acoustically.

[Rickco]

I passed on a Koa bodied one he about gave away here a few years ago, one of my major guitar regrets. Be great to hear from whoever got it. This ones quite beautiful

[2bornot2bop]

I’ve owned 8 GE’s, both with Humbucker’s and Floaters. The last was as pristine a finish as I ever owned. But every guitar is unique unto itself. I don’t generalize when it comes to arch tops. Some great, some not so.



I’m actually a fan of the Loar LH650. It has a great neck and a tone to die for. But I did change the electronics and the floater to a Bartolini 5J. Nothing better anywhere at 4 times the price. I own 2, both as a floating pickup, and a Humbucker.

A member here once told me over a decade ago. You pay your money and make your choices.

[Groooooove]

so a somewhat conclusive post,

I decided to go another direction for a few reasons.

Archtops "can" do what I need. I happened to want one because I love them.
but, effectively using the instrument in place of a piano when traveling to students homes, projection was most important.

Ended up buying the eastman DM2 gypsy jazz guitar that was in the classifieds here for only $900.

I don't recall if I've ever played this style of guitar. I think they look cool, and what I know of them they sound great.

I'll post an update when I get the guitar, but I think this was the right choice. I could use the rest of my spending money elsewhere, although I'd love an archtop, it wasn't quite the right tool for the job- and they're inherently expensive.

[Marty Grass]

The section in this book on Heritage was complimentary. That's not to say that every archtop Heritage makes is great, but it does give praise for their elite models.

One of the most finicky people on this forum was Patrick, now dead. He had a nice collection of Gibsons and Heritages and very high standards and keen ears. He definitely heard things I could not. He was consistent in detecting what he heard, and his opinions were strong.

There are so very many things that affect satisfaction and awe with and of a guitar that it is almost absurd to assign a verdict on how perfect an instrument is.

I've had the pleasure of spending quite a bit of time with the "Gibson builders" since I was a kid. Those who carved the upper end archtops each had their own approach. As an example Aaron Cowles would take the plates home sometimes to finish the carving for some extra money. After a rough carve, he often spent half a day on a top to get it right. Marv Lamb carved them differently. Several others had even different approaches. The bracing also varied. The Kalamazoo guitar was done differently generally by someone else. Aaron would choose the spruce from a stack of billets. His choice might be different than by someone else.

I don't believe what I've written would surprise many. There wasn't a uniform way to carve tops, backs, and braces. There were general standards but enough room for the individual luthier to have their own approach.

Over the years I've brought in archtops to Heritage, to Pete Moreno, and to Aaron Cowles for various reasons. These included older Gibson archtops. The comments were flowing freely. It might be naming the person who shaved the braces. It might be the top thicknesses in areas. They often could identify the person who did the carving and why some disagreed with that approach. Of course the choice of billets might come up, like this must have been on a day where there were few to select from.

A big concern was beyond tone. It was the wood figuring and density. Of course, the spray booth skills were very important in the desirablity of a burst, and this has virtually no relationship to tone or playability but a lot to do with a guitarist bonding to the instrument.

Many have strong feelings about guitars beyond what the principles of engineering would support. That's a good thing since music is art and is evocative of memories and feelings. One of my favorite guitars is a G&L Comanche with David Gilmour EMG pickups. Today I pondered why I like it so much. Here's what I concluded. I like the G&L story and have been impressed with their quality. David Gilmour is one of my favorite guitarists. The pickups sound very good and are different enough to be interesting. Changing the battery once a year or so is special. I bought it used from a guy who used it for a few years and needed to thin the herd, a very decent person. This story is not that remarkable, but the guitar felt natural to my hands and worked out perfectly. It could have gone a very different direction, as is sometimes the case with Reverb transactions.

Flickr

So what is my point? I'm not sure, but I've had a lifetime of learning and surprises. In the end though the joy one gets playing an instrument may have less to do with the technical details of that instrument than with the context of getting the instrument, the feel of it, the sense of casualness in not worrying about fastidious care for it, and unforeseeable factors that shape much of our life in other ways. It's almost like developing a friendship.

[SierraTango]

so a somewhat conclusive post,

I decided to go another direction for a few reasons.

Archtops "can" do what I need. I happened to want one because I love them.
but, effectively using the instrument in place of a piano when traveling to students homes, projection was most important.

Ended up buying the eastman DM2 gypsy jazz guitar that was in the classifieds here for only $900.

I don't recall if I've ever played this style of guitar. I think they look cool, and what I know of them they sound great.

I'll post an update when I get the guitar, but I think this was the right choice. I could use the rest of my spending money elsewhere, although I'd love an archtop, it wasn't quite the right tool for the job- and they're inherently expensive.

Congrats on your Eastman Gypsy! I'm sure there will be a ton of folks giving you advise on how to make these guitars sing. It's a whole other ballgame from a Archtop. To my ears, most of them sound best with Argentine strings and a very thick pick. The Argie's don't last real long.
You will have to just use what works best for you. There are a lot of Gypsy Jazz police out there but it's your guitar and work horse.

[joe2758]

Congrats! Toldja so, but congrats

[Groooooove]

Congrats on your Eastman Gypsy! I'm sure there will be a ton of folks giving you advise on how to make these guitars sing. It's a whole other ballgame from a Archtop. To my ears, most of them sound best with Argentine strings and a very thick pick. The Argie's don't last real long.
You will have to just use what works best for you. There are a lot of Gypsy Jazz police out there but it's your guitar and work horse.

Obviously I like the gypsy stuff, but honestly the choice of guitar was pretty disconnected from any particular love for that music - or jazz- at all.

as of today i'm using a classical style mandolin for this use, playing with my students. That works fine. a big ole archtop would work okay if i had one. a flat top obviously would as well.

I think they have a sweet tone and could likely be used in all sorts of music outside of doing my best django impression.

Maybe i'll even use it and make a little recording accompanying myself on a baroque piece with my primary instrument. Could easily replace a lute part and sound pleasant.

or not, who knows. but this one is a nice guitar, a little more interesting than a typical flattop, and it was a good price. I should have it friday. We shall see!

[Groooooove]

I doubt very many people are invested in this thread, but I'd like to conclude it.

I've had the eastman gypsy style guitar for two days now, taught several lessons, and played a bunch at home.

I really love it. it's plenty loud, has such a clear interesting tone, i find it to be physically (scale length, neck shape, etc) really comfortable to play.

I was going to say my only negative is that i wish I could try normal acoustic strings, but I just saw a minute ago that the tailpiece has slots to accommodate those - which should be interesting to try.

I love it, and consider it an ideal instrument for my use.
If I ever bought another acoustic guitar, it would almost certainly by in this same style. total home run.

[Marty Grass]

You'll get a lot of opinions. The GEs from that era were generally good. Some had the bracings shaved and the plates carved by Aaron Cowles, some by Marv Lamb, and some by others. They had somewhat different approaches. None of these guys were close to shabby luthiers.

If you are fussy, it may be worth a trip to try it in person. If you can't, I would wait until you can find one you can test drive.

Some people have super hearing it seems. Some also have idiosyncratic tastes. And some will never be satisfied. They are tormented souls. That's how I see it. It's like listening to movie and food critics.

I've been pretty happy with the Golden Eagles and with other Heritage archtops. I've got a lot of experience with Kalamazoo Epiphones, Gibsons from both places, and Gretsch and Guild carved archtops. I believe a person could be happy with quite a few choices. Consider that Kenny Burrell, Johnny Smith, and Mimi Fox had their models built there. I don't think those artists were on the skids when designing their signature model.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mOZqsQ4NLs8

I do believe that the floating pickup can be a point of criticism. This was made by Ken Rambow. It is a low output humbucker. Many had Kent Armstrong rebuild the pickup and make it hotter. Nowadays, others will do that work. It's a matter of preference.

A friend of mine designs and builds Heritage pickups as well as their instruments. He is brilliant and a perfectionist. Here is their latest in the traditional archtop line. Heritage Core Collection H-717 Electric Guitar | Heritage Guitars

I have suffered from tonequest disorder for years. This is about a dissatisfaction that is very hard to conquer. Those who don't have it won't fully understand it yet hear the complaints from others frequently. They will wisely play your guitar and tell you it sounds good. But that's not a cure. Many of us make peace with that inner restlessness over the years. That's a good feeling.

[2bornot2bop]

You'll get a lot of opinions. The GEs from that era were generally good. Some had the bracings shaved and the plates carved by Aaron Cowles, some by Marv Lamb, and some by others. They had somewhat different approaches. None of these guys were close to shabby luthiers.

If you are fussy, it may be worth a trip to try it in person. If you can't, I would wait until you can find one you can test drive.

Some people have super hearing it seems. Some also have idiosyncratic tastes. And some will never be satisfied. They are tormented souls. That's how I see it. It's like listening to movie and food critics.

I've been pretty happy with the Golden Eagles and with other Heritage archtops. I've got a lot of experience with Kalamazoo Epiphones, Gibsons from both places, and Gretsch and Guild carved archtops. I believe a person could be happy with quite a few choices. Consider that Kenny Burrell, Johnny Smith, and Mimi Fox had their models built there. I don't think those artists were on the skids when designing their signature model.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mOZqsQ4NLs8

I do believe that the floating pickup can be a point of criticism. This was made by Ken Rambow. It is a low output humbucker. Many had Kent Armstrong rebuild the pickup and make it hotter. Nowadays, others will do that work. It's a matter of preference.

A friend of mine designs and builds Heritage pickups as well as their instruments. He is brilliant and a perfectionist. Here is their latest in the traditional archtop line. Heritage Core Collection H-717 Electric Guitar | Heritage Guitars

I have suffered from tonequest disorder for years. This is about a dissatisfaction that is very hard to conquer. Those who don't have it won't fully understand it yet hear the complaints from others frequently. They will wisely play your guitar and tell you it sounds good. But that's not a cure. Many of us make peace with that inner restlessness over the years. That's a good feeling.

Hey, any post with JD in it gets my vote!

[nyc chaz]

That new Heritage looks nice but 13K is absurd to me with whats available today.All the guys wishing for Gibson to go back to building archtops can use the Heritage price as an example of what a new Gibson archtop would cost.

[SierraTango]

I doubt very many people are invested in this thread, but I'd like to conclude it.

I've had the eastman gypsy style guitar for two days now, taught several lessons, and played a bunch at home.

I really love it. it's plenty loud, has such a clear interesting tone, i find it to be physically (scale length, neck shape, etc) really comfortable to play.

I was going to say my only negative is that i wish I could try normal acoustic strings, but I just saw a minute ago that the tailpiece has slots to accommodate those - which should be interesting to try.

I love it, and consider it an ideal instrument for my use.
If I ever bought another acoustic guitar, it would almost certainly by in this same style. total home run.

That is so great to hear! You found a instrument that meets your needs. And have 3K left over from the potential Heritage GE. There is no doubt in my mind that just about any Gypsy Jazz guitar will be louder acoustically than many archtops. And yes, sound quite different.
I learned a long time ago to use the loop end type strings on a GJG. If you have to make any adjustments to the bridge, which can happen seasonally, you just have to lift the strings off the tailpiece and pop them back on. However, by all means try out whatever strings work best for you.
One last comment: just like archtops, it's easy to go down the GJG rabbit hole. 4K will put you into Dupont territory and they are the real thing.

[Marty Grass]

That new Heritage looks nice but 13K is absurd to me with whats available today.All the guys wishing for Gibson to go back to building archtops can use the Heritage price as an example of what a new Gibson archtop would cost.

I will never own this model, but I have played the prototype and know the history of its inception and build. It was in a room with high value archtops such as Benedettos and older Gibsons.

If it is officially in the product line, I'm sure few will be built and it will take many more hours for each than a Golden Eagle. I would not call this a rugged model. It makes me nervous to handle one for fear I may ding it. I feel the same way about Citations.

I heard the story of this model. I don't think it is a con at all. It's about designing something with the best materials and craftsmanship one at a time to meet the needs of the ordering guitarist requesting an acoustic full sized archtop. I like the idea of this as a team building morale booster, if nothing else.

Long ago, Heritage did this for Gretsch as Synchromatics. These were 18" archtops as a limited run. Less than 10 were made as I recall. They ended up in the hands of collectors for the most part, Randy Bachman getting three of these if I remember correctly. They cost a lot to build due to no economy of production size, resulting in a higher price. Here's one. Flickr

My practical experience from when I was doing gigs was to use a ES-175. In fact that instrument was stamped BGN (bargain) on the back of the headstock, greatly reducing the purchasing price, the reason for the BGN was never clear to me. Taking a good instrument on the road as opposed to a collectible dainty flower never affected the listening pleasure of the those seeing the show and greatly reduced my stress level. In fact in some cases I used my ES-330 to the same good effect.

There will always be a small market for those who want "the best of the best" however they define that. The Heritage builders can compete in that arena if they really want to. It is not the same company as it was in the 1990s, meaning there is a clear administrative heirarchy that extends to Asia, the ultimate boss being a thoughtful guitarist himself.

[Groooooove]

what really is the difference - or purpose, really, of the silver-plated string being specific to this?

my guitar came setup with the loop end normal GJG strings, and i like them, so I'll probably try regular acoustic strings for a short while just to see.

My eastman only cost me $900 used here on the classifieds. Honestly, I can't imagine a guitar in the $4k+ range being more than just marginally better. It's about as nice of a guitar as you can get.

I've taught more with it, played a ton at home, and i just adore this particular guitar.

still love the sound and idea of a floating pickup style archtop, but i have very little room for more stuff at the moment. I used to have a godin kingpin, i could grab one of those for the occasional amplified archop sound.

That is so great to hear! You found a instrument that meets your needs. And have 3K left over from the potential Heritage GE. There is no doubt in my mind that just about any Gypsy Jazz guitar will be louder acoustically than many archtops. And yes, sound quite different.
I learned a long time ago to use the loop end type strings on a GJG. If you have to make any adjustments to the bridge, which can happen seasonally, you just have to lift the strings off the tailpiece and pop them back on. However, by all means try out whatever strings work best for you.
One last comment: just like archtops, it's easy to go down the GJG rabbit hole. 4K will put you into Dupont territory and they are the real thing.

[ThatRhythmMan]

what really is the difference - or purpose, really, of the silver-plated string being specific to this?

my guitar came setup with the loop end normal GJG strings, and i like them, so I'll probably try regular acoustic strings for a short while just to see.

My eastman only cost me $900 used here on the classifieds. Honestly, I can't imagine a guitar in the $4k+ range being more than just marginally better. It's about as nice of a guitar as you can get.

I've taught more with it, played a ton at home, and i just adore this particular guitar.

still love the sound and idea of a floating pickup style archtop, but i have very little room for more stuff at the moment. I used to have a godin kingpin, i could grab one of those for the occasional amplified archop sound.

There can be a lot more difference in the sound of some of the really nice and early Manouche guitars like a real Macaferri, Busato, Favino, than you might think when compared to an Eastman.

I had a Castellucia here for a while that was the same model guitar as one that Dorado Schmitt was seen playing for a while that could cut through about anything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SierraTango]

what really is the difference - or purpose, really, of the silver-plated string being specific to this?

my guitar came setup with the loop end normal GJG strings, and i like them, so I'll probably try regular acoustic strings for a short while just to see.

My eastman only cost me $900 used here on the classifieds. Honestly, I can't imagine a guitar in the $4k+ range being more than just marginally better. It's about as nice of a guitar as you can get.

I've taught more with it, played a ton at home, and i just adore this particular guitar.

still love the sound and idea of a floating pickup style archtop, but i have very little room for more stuff at the moment. I used to have a godin kingpin, i could grab one of those for the occasional amplified archop sound.

Adoring is a good thing. As far as the Argentine Gypsy strings, it depends of course on what kind of tone or sound you are looking for out of the guitar. I've tried 80/20 Bronze, Silk and Steel and others however found that they just don't allow the GJG to sound like a GJG. With 80/20's it sounded more like a Dreadnought flattop. Not a bad thing, just not what I was looking for-strings are inexpensive so try finding whatever works best for you.
You are just going to have to trust me on the 4K GJG sounding better. As someone who has been down the rabbit hole, first with Asian builds and then upgrading to a Dupont and back again. If you are looking for the true or pure Gypsy tone, a 4K GJG is the ticket. If you don't particularly want to chase that dragon, then it doesn't matter much.

That Rhythm Man speaks the truth. Although it's almost impossible, you need to sit down in a situation where there are several Asian and Euro build guitars and play them back to back. I was fortunate to spend time at Tommy Davey's shop and played my Latcho Drom (Altimira build) against vintage Oliveri, Favino, and DiMauro and newer high end Duponts. There is a very noticeable difference in tone. If it matters to you, then that's a good direction, if not play your Eastman and enjoy-it's a fine instrument.

[Rickco]

"If it is officially in the product line, I'm sure few will be built and it will take many more hours for each than a Golden Eagle." why would that be, werent they built to order?

[Groooooove]

Adoring is a good thing. As far as the Argentine Gypsy strings, it depends of course on what kind of tone or sound you are looking for out of the guitar. I've tried 80/20 Bronze, Silk and Steel and others however found that they just don't allow the GJG to sound like a GJG. With 80/20's it sounded more like a Dreadnought flattop. Not a bad thing, just not what I was looking for-strings are inexpensive so try finding whatever works best for you.
You are just going to have to trust me on the 4K GJG sounding better. As someone who has been down the rabbit hole, first with Asian builds and then upgrading to a Dupont and back again. If you are looking for the true or pure Gypsy tone, a 4K GJG is the ticket. If you don't particularly want to chase that dragon, then it doesn't matter much.

That Rhythm Man speaks the truth. Although it's almost impossible, you need to sit down in a situation where there are several Asian and Euro build guitars and play them back to back. I was fortunate to spend time at Tommy Davey's shop and played my Latcho Drom (Altimira build) against vintage Oliveri, Favino, and DiMauro and newer high end Duponts. There is a very noticeable difference in tone. If it matters to you, then that's a good direction, if not play your Eastman and enjoy-it's a fine instrument.

Maybe i should clarify that I am under zero delusion that my eastman would be "better" than any of the high end premium instruments.

but, I am genuinely satisfied with the tone and projection. I taught one violin and one double bass lesson with the guitar today. was plenty loud. playing scales with my students, I was able to hear the guitar perfectly. and the tone is great.

perhaps I would upgrade one day. but it's a really nice sounding instrument and i'm fine with it for the time being.

[jim777]

You can't go wrong with a Vestax made D'Angelico NYL-2, mine is going to someone in my will.