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My recently ruptured disc made it necessary to rethink my gear completely. Selling the heavy tube amps was a no-brainer. But I discovered on my first gig some weeks ago that I needed a lighter guitar too. A 2 hr solo show with the Ibanez AF207 had me really feeling its weight within minutes, playing in my usual classical position with guitar on left thigh. I tried standing with it, but that wasn't any better. So I tried sitting with it on the strap, which was the least bad of the 3 alternatives. I still get stiff sitting in the same position for over an hour, so I need to be able to shift the guitar's angle while playing and have it stay there. The AF is too heavy and pulls itself back to where it wants to be, even on my widest and grippiest suede strap. The El Rey is fine on a strap if I'm standing, but I really prefer a full size archtop I can play sitting down for serious jazzing.
Yes, I have 16" and 17" carved Eastman archtops that are wonderful guitars. But they're more prone to feedback than a laminated box, they're gorgeous, and they're unmarred. So as strange as it sounds, I'd rather gig with a battle scarred Benedetto. I almost sold the 16", but I couldn't pull the trigger. Once I'm completely at home with the Bravo and at equilibrium with the black, I'll probably sell at least one of the others.
Along comes Rustic to the rescue! The Bravo is a hair over 5 pounds, which is about 65% of the Ibanez. I struggled with the fact that I really don't like black guitars (especially archtops). But I decided that it was the right one for me because it's a wonderful guitar and it was there when I needed it. It was made by Bob B in 2012 for Doug Neel, a music educator and seasoned pro who used it long and hard. So it has a fair amount of linear finish checking on front and back and carries the patina of use. Fortunately, there's no other physical damage and a little Virtuoso really brought it back to life. Frets are fine and should be good for several years with my light touch and TI flats. Wintermoon, I promise not to do anything about the checking - it's fine and I'll live with it.
It sounds beautiful (even acoustically) and plays incredibly well. Overall, I think it's the best playing guitar I've ever had. Tone is even and rich from bottom to top, and it just feels fantastic in my hands. It may not be a Cremona, but it's excellent for my needs and well worth its cost.
Here's how it sounds. First comes a chord melody solo piece through the EG250 and RE10:
Here's a thunkier piece through the TB202 and RE 10:
I LOVE this guitar!!
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04-08-2026 05:46 PM
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Congrats,enjoy that beauty my friend.I thought Benedetto built his last guitar in the late 90's or am i wrong about that?
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Welcome to Club Benedetto! I think the "Tux" black looks very classy.
I'm blessed with a 1990 Benedetto Cremona built by Bob. I has a few minor battle scars from gigging out, but it just makes me LOVE it more.
Play it in good health and enjoy!
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He was (and to some extent still is) intimately involved with the ongoing operations at the Savannah facility. Doug Neel was the original owner of this guitar and is a friend of both Bob and Jackson Evans (a great guy and very fine guitarist who's in charge of customer relations and sales). Bob involved himself in the making of this guitar, and the back of the headstock carries Bob's note that it was "made for my friend Doug Neel" over his signature. He checked specs and followed production of special instruments for specific people, inspecting them before delivery and adding personal notes over his signature. I called Jackson when I got the guitar, and he immediately remembered the guitar and details of its production. So while he apparently hasn't made a complete guitar for general sale in a long time, he's still attentive and somewhat involved.
Originally Posted by nyc chaz
Here's a picture of Doug Neel from the Benedetto website with this guitar when it was new:
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A lot of people do - sadly, I'm not among them. I just don't think it's as elegant as it would be with beautiful wood grain and appointments. One of the reasons I didn't sell my Eastman Jazz Elite when I got the Bravo is that it looks so magnificent. This is my idea of a beautiful guitar - Originally Posted by SierraTango
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I can see why to want to preserve the Eastmans. I love my Pisano 880, it's become backup for the Cremona.
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I’m typically in agreement about preferring finishes that highlight the wood, but this guitar just works. All the better that it has honest play wear so you can play it without stressing about the first ding. Oh, and it sounds wonderful too—enjoy the goodness!
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It is a beautiful guitar even for a black guitar which normal I don't like. This looks great. Now for my problem with 7strings. I had one the Bill Barker made me in 1985. An 18 inch blond 7string. I used an 82 for the low A but never could feel good with the guitar. Then I realized that to my ears the low A never quite bites enough sound to do my ear any good. To me the 7 strings players all have the same situation in the timbre of the low A never quite gets precise and clean.
Naturally this is just my take and we have a world full of 7 string players that prove my likes don't fit with anyone else. I have found this out with any 7-string player with one exception and that is Lenny Breau. All the great GVP, Ron Eschete, Bucky, and others while the finest players you can hear I still prefer all the playing they did on their 6 string guitar above the 7. Even Lenny I preferred when he played the 6 string, but he was doing things other 7 string players were not.
Enjoy the guitar it looks fabulous and sounds good even with that low A that my ear would like to hear come out more distinct. ?
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You moved me to start a new thread on this topic, Mark. I've been focusing on exactly what concerns you about the 7. Whether B or A, the low string should have the same character as the rest of the set. So I made some test recordings to demonstrate my theory that it's largely a matter of too much bass from all sources - EQ settings, speaker cabinets, heavy strings, etc. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
It is a beautiful guitar even for a black guitar which normal I don't like. This looks great. Now for my problem with 7strings. I had one the Bill Barker made me in 1985. An 18 inch blond 7string. I used an 82 for the low A but never could feel good with the guitar. Then I realized that to my ears the low A never quite bites enough sound to do my ear any good. To me the 7 strings players all have the same situation in the timbre of the low A never quite gets precise and clean.
Naturally this is just my take and we have a world full of 7 string players that prove my likes don't fit with anyone else. I have found this out with any 7-string player with one exception and that is Lenny Breau. All the great GVP, Ron Eschete, Bucky, and others while the finest players you can hear I still prefer all the playing they did on their 6 string guitar above the 7. Even Lenny I preferred when he played the 6 string, but he was doing things other 7 string players were not.
Enjoy the guitar it looks fabulous and sounds good even with that low A that my ear would like to hear come out more distinct. ?
Balance across all 7 strings also requires a balanced tone for the guitar - not too bright, not to dark, not too heavy, not too light. The best integrated 7 strings seem to me to be those that are more "woody" and acoustic in tone. The thunkier the tone sought by the player, the boomier the 7th string seems to sound. Heavy laminated archtops ae particularly guilty of this. The Gretsch Van Eps models I've played were truly lap pianos - they were as heavy as pianos and had the same ponderous tone. Worse, the pianos they brought to mind were definitely not Steinways
I've never even seen one of the custom 7s that GVE played himself, let alone played one. So I don't know about them and assume they were much better guitars. But the production Gretsch 7s I've played were heavy as lead and truly flabby in the bass.
Here's the thread.
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Welcome to the Bravo 7 club, David!
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There is a biography of George Van Eps that I think is not particularly well known to even exist. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
The Gretsch Van Eps models I've played were truly lap pianos - they were as heavy as pianos and had the same ponderous tone. Worse, the pianos they brought to mind were definitely not Steinways I've never even seen one of the custom 7s that GVE played himself, let alone played one. So I don't know about them and assume they were much better guitars. But the production Gretsch 7s I've played were heavy as lead and truly flabby in the bass.
Amazon.com
If I remember correctly, it was published posthumously after the death of the author, but much of the book seems to come from interviews with George. There's interesting material on the genesis of the seven string guitar; his first one was a much loved 1934 Epiphone Deluxe which was originally a six string. They sawed the original neck off of that guitar and put the seven string neck on it; surgery was successful and George referred to it as the finest instrument he ever played in his life and it was his guitar until the Van Eps model was produced. George was quite positive about the Gretsch GVE. He also did quite well financially out of that endorsement. He and the Van Eps siblings, parents and his grandfather were pretty remarkable folks with inventions, engineering, manufacturing precision products, etc.
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Congrats David, may she inspire your playing for many years to come.
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Sounds fantastic.
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Fascinating! I've seen many references to his having played a production model GVE from the time they were introduced. But the first run weighed 8 lbs 12 oz, and his '34 Epi weighed 4 lbs 14 oz as a 6 string. So the production GVE was essentially twice as heavy as his first 7 string. He may well have loved it - I'm just a bit skeptical that he embraced a guitar that was that heavy and "clunky" (for lack of a better term) after playing one that weighed 5 pounds or less. It's certainly possible, but I find it a bit odd. Gretsch did reduce the weight by several ounces about 4 years after the model was introduced, but AFAIK the ungainly (to use a polite term) neck and heavy laminated construction remained the same. I played one late one ('76 or '77 IIRC) at Manny's when it was new, and I was shocked at how crude it felt to me. I really wanted to love it and buy it - but I just found it to be a heavy, crude, unpleasant guitar. Originally Posted by Cunamara
As for how much money he made from his relationship with Gretsch, I know of no authoritative production number for the model. It had to be low, given the lack of known players who used them. For the last few years of its 11 year run, they were special order only, and it's not in the '68, '69, '70 and '78 catalogs or price lists that I have. I've read that they made a few 6 string versions of the guitar, but I've never seen one live or in any pics or films / videos. So he must have had one sweetheart deal with Gretsch.
Given that Benedetto apparently used / uses the same bodies for 6 and 7 string versions of each model and changes only the neck, I suspect that a 17" Bravo 7 (the standard production one is 16") would be a lot closer to GVE's converted Epi than the Gretsch GVE and would have been exactly what he wanted in his guitar. its weight is within a few ounces of that Epi, and it's in a different world of tone and playability.
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The assumption around the forum for years has been that George's guitar was not a production model, so it's possible it would've been a better instrument than the ones sold in music stores.
I've seen interviews with Bucky Pizzarelli where he talked about getting his first seven string, which was a GVE, but I don't remember him saying that it was a wonderful instrument. And of course, later in life, he played Benedettos.
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I studied with Allen Hanlon for a year and a half. At that time Allen was playing a Gretsch GVE. Allen was a friend of both Bucky and GVE. Years later, when I decided to try the 7 string thing (it turned out to be one string too many for me, I am already quite perplexed by six!), I bought a Gretsch GVE. I hated it! It was heavy and dead sounding acoustically. I had a couple of Ibanez AF-207s which I loved, except for the 24.7 scale (I never could get the low A to intonate 100 percent. At B it intonated fine. And I experimented with pickups and string gauge, but to no avail.) I also had a couple of Novax sold body guitars, one was a 7 string and the other was an 8 string. Ralph Novak is an old friend and I love the success he has had with the whole fan fret thing, but alas, that was all too much for me.
I eventually figured out that I am an ES-175 player. Six strings laminate fully hollow body with a 24.75 scale and a 1 11/16 nut and humbucking pickups. For me that is the right recipe and finding that perfect recipe is the goal. It took me awhile, but I feel lucky to have figured it out!
David, I hope the 25 inch scale of the Bravo gives you perfect intonation. Bob's guitars are bespoke guitars. I think you have arrived (wherever it is that we are all trying to get to, that is).
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
That’s exactly how I felt every time I played one. They just looked, felt and sounded crude to me. Sadly, this opinion offended a guy on this forum who owned one and loved it. But he is clearly in the minority, and I couldn’t find a way to soften my thoughts.
It must have been great to study with Allen Hanlon!
The Bravo has excellent intonation from low A on the Chrome 75 all the way up. But TBH, my AF207 and Eastmans are just about as good. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I was at NAMM in 2000, and remember the Fender/Benedetto display quite well. They had set up a workbench and Steve Stern was carving tops.
The Bravo 7 they had on display was noted as the "Bucky Pizzarelli" model.
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The first Benedetto Bucky model was serial # 1678. Bob built it in Florida in 1978 for him, and I believe it was his working guitar for most of the rest of his career. He built #48705 in Florida in 2006 as the prototype for the Fender Custom Shop to copy. I’ve never seen either of these myself. But those who have talk about how wonderful, light, and resonant they were. I believe the bodies were about 1/2” deeper than the Bravo’s and there were a few other differences. I don’t think the original Benedetto Pizzarellis were Bravos per se. Originally Posted by SierraTango
I was at NAMM in 2000, and remember the Fender/Benedetto display quite well. They had set up a workbench and Steve Stern was carving tops.
The Bravo 7 they had on display was noted as the "Bucky Pizzarelli" model.
I suspect and strongly hope that GVE would have preferred Benedetto’s approach to Gretsch’s for his signature guitar. They’re as different as night and day, even though the body and neck of the first Benedetto Bucky looked more than a little like the GVE’s. Here’s 1678:
and here’s a production GVE:
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Howard Alden had many workshops in the UK using some great Benedetto 7 string guitars, he always sounded fantastic.
(Howard Alden with his 7 string benedetto is on the RHS, Trefor Owen on the LHS in the picture below.)
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Years ago there were three late 70's Benedettos at Guitar Center in Hollywood. One was a 7 string. They all sat around with old strings gathering dust. Perhaps the 30-35K price tags didn't help. I played the 7 and the string spacing was just to narrow for me. Apparently that guitar was sold by auction to a forum member who had the same issue and sold it. It was then converted to a 6 string and sold through archtop.com for around 11K. Only a few builds away from Bucky's.
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I'm absolutely thrilled that you love your new Bravo!!!
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It's everything you said it was - solid, ready for gigging, and it plays & sounds great. it's also very light and comfortable for me. Fortunately, I quickly learned not to look at it Originally Posted by Rustic
For those of you who don't get the joke, I don't like black guitars. But I needed a light, pro quality guitar for gigging and this one checks all the boxes. it weighs about 60+% of my Ibanez AF207's serious mass, has some battle scars (e.g. finish checking and general patina from several years of heavy use by its original owner), and will never be a case queen. So I'm gigging with it without remorse. Joke two is that I'm probably the first person in history to buy a Benedetto as a beater.Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 04-17-2026 at 02:13 PM.
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Just put pink polkadots all over it…
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I have a 2006 Bucky model built by Stephen Stern.Mine was made just before the one Bucky used from 2006 onwards after he contributed his original Benedetto 7 string to the Smithsonian.I've never played a Bravo 7 string so i can't say how they are different but the booklet that came with the guitar signed by Stern and Benedetto has the model listed as Bravo.It's a great guitar and even though it wasn't made by Bob,Stern is a highly regarded luthier. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
The first Benedetto Bucky model was serial # 1678. Bob built it in Florida in 1978 for him, and I believe it was his working guitar for most of the rest of his career. He built #48705 in Florida in 2006 as the prototype for the Fender Custom Shop to copy. I’ve never seen either of these myself. But those who have talk about how wonderful, light, and resonant they were. I believe the bodies were about 1/2” deeper than the Bravo’s and there were a few other differences. I don’t think the original Benedetto Pizzarellis were Bravos per se.
I suspect and strongly hope that GVE would have preferred Benedetto’s approach to Gretsch’s for his signature guitar. They’re as different as night and day, even though the body and neck of the first Benedetto Bucky looked more than a little like the GVE’s. Here’s 1678:
and here’s a production GVE:
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