-
Thanks to tariffs, wood shortages, material and labor costs, etc, the best imported archtops now cost 2 to 3 times their MSRPs 5 years ago. A current thread about the tone of an Eastman 810CE got me thinking about the fact that a new Eastman 910 now lists for $6k and a new 810CE lists for $4500. That's getting closer and closer to the price of the grail. Now we'll find out if the best from Eastman and others can compete with a good older Gibson or other fine archtop purely on merit.
You can get a very nice L7C for the price of a new Eastman 905 or 910. The asking price range for a decent L5C seems to start at about $9k right now, and there are many other fine archtops available new and used in the $5k to $10k range (asking price). You can get one of many excellent luthier-built boxes for the price of a 910. For example, the American Archtop line currently starts at $6500 for a beautiful guitar that's laminated but gorgeous, very well made, and with fantastic sound and playability. So there's now a wide and fairly level playing field that encompasses a lot of wonderful guitars that were never direct competitors before (e.g. a new Eastman 910 and a new AA Dream or Bucky cost the same amount).
Many consider(ed) Eastman carved archtops to be second class instruments. Most of those who bought them did so only because they were so much cheaper than the "good" guitars that they really wanted. I recognized the tonal and playing qualities of carved Eastman archtops when I first encountered them over 20 years ago. But I was (illogically) afraid that a Chinese-made guitar would come apart in a few years and leave me with a pile of splinters that would be more costly to repair than it was worth. They sure did sound fine and play well - but I didn't have the confidence to buy one when they were truly dirt cheap.
They've now withstood the test of time, so I bought one about 5 years ago. I paid $2200 for my 17" 810CE7 new from Guitars 'n Jazz. I've since bought a new 16" Jazz Elite 7 from GnJ and a used El Rey 7 from another forum member. I love carved Eastman archtops! Over the last 60+ years, I've gigged with many archtops thick and thin, including a Vega, a 345, a 175, an L5C, a Guild X500, a 165, a Gretsch archtop whose model # I don't remember, and the Ibanez AF207 that's been my trusted sidekick since 1997. I will not need another gigging guitar for the rest of my life, and I'm fairly certain that my 3 Eastman archies will here long after I'm gone. But I know of no guitar I could get today that I would sell my Eastmans to buy. Even if there were a 7 string L5, I would not take it over them unless it was possessed by pure magic.
The thread linked above was started by the owner of a new-to-him preowned Eastman 810CE looking for ways to improve its tone. After posting a clip of mine for him to compare to his, I decided to compare mine to the grail. So here's my unamplified 810CE7, along with a YT clip of a '45 L5. There are also clips of my 810 and a nice L5-CES played amplified. I think my Eastman holds its own pretty well against these. I'd love to have done this with a $6,000 Eastman 910, but I don't have access to one. Still, I think the now-$4500 810CE acquits itself pretty well in what I think are comparable presentations of the Eastman 810 and the L5s (both acoustic and electric). The non-cut '45 L5 does sound absolutely beautiful - but I don't think the 810 is far behind, especially considering that it has heavy flatwounds on it. Amplified, I think the 810 and L5-CES are pretty comparable in tonal quality.
Whaddya you think - can the Eastman compete against name brand top dogs independent of price?
Here's my unamplified 810CE7 with TI JS113 flatwounds (picked with Dunlop Jazztone 204) closely mic'ed, entirely acoustic - solo intro, then with organ trio. I don't have and couldn't find a recording of a mic'ed acoustic archtop playing lead with a small group for comparison. But I think this track shows how great the 810 sounds acoustically in a small jazz group.
I just laid down this solo acoustic track on my 810 whle practicing. I don't think the mics and/or preamps in my Zoom Q2n-4K are quite as warm as those in my TASCAM digital recorder (used to capture the Soundcloud track above) or my Shure SM58s. But the sound quality is certainly decent.
Compare it to this 1945 L5 acoustic (round wounds - pick unknown):
Here's my 810 through my Blu 6:
And here's Andy Bartosh (who makes any guitar sound as good as it can possibly sound) on his amplified L5-CES. He's using more reverb than I am, FWIW:
-
02-20-2026 10:23 PM
-
I believe Eastman dont imitate Gibsons, body dimensions are different. If they would want to imitate it they could. Ibanez too.
Dont know why eastman dont have an L-5 Ces style model (all or all i seen are 25"scale and slimer body).
Quality construction is great.
Gibson amplified sound is fatter but acoustic sound is at same level than Eastman, there is some advantage for gibson, but.... because of scale length and body dimensions.
-
I’ll listen later with headphones, and look forward to doing so.
The new 910CE has a torrefied or toasted soundboard, plus some unnecessary bling. I had a high-end classical guitar with a torrefied top. It was a great-sounding guitar, but came with a flaw ‘baked in’ - the upper end of volume seemed to hit a brick wall, which was an unpleasant experience that is hard to describe. The toast technique has become a trendy promotional thing, allowing companies to charge more for them - hence the price of the new Eastman - but I’m not a fan, and will not waste my limited funds on the gamble. That’s why I just bought a mint 2008 910 CE BD, and it is stunning in every way. And my previously owned 910C was the best purely acoustic guitar I’ve ever heard.
The Gibsons I’ve tried in stores have been excellent too, but not enough to tempt me to pay the extra for.
Best choice right now seems to be a pre-upgrade Eastman. YMMV, as ever.
-
I've listened to your high quality Soundcloud recordings, they're a very good listening experience, with truly excellent playing. I don't prefer any guitar tone in particular, they're both different, but good. Maybe, I'll be a bit bias towards 'Alone Together', because it is a fav song.
-
It's worth pointing out that Eastmen are still very competitively priced in the parts of the world without self inflicted tariffs.
I think theres the difference that the player hears, esp in isolation, then there is the guitar in the band mix live, and then there is a recording. I think differences diminish by context
I hear a difference in the clips , I wouldnt necessarily call it a better or worse thing
-
I think Eastman are designed along Bob’s book. They came with plans to make a generic Benedetto.
Although I suppose Bob’s designs are closer to pre 50’s Gibsons and likely are derivative of those.
-
At this point used Eastmans sell at about 60 percent of new cost.
Gibsons hold value better.
That said, I dont buy for resale and I generally buy used. I dont want to put the first scratch on it and given that its wood, if something is going to move it has likely already done so on a used guitar. I dont buy old becuase I dont want to worry about neck resets.
-
Great observations and points made - but no one has addressed my question yet. Now that the cost of a good imported archtop (using Eastman’s flagship models as an example) is approaching the cost of a good American archtop (used, in the case of a Gibson etc and new for the excellent products of many luthiers like Dale Unger), will the imports continue to sell well against the domestics based primarily on quality?
I’m ignoring resale value, and I think most who have responded agree with me that guitars like my 810 sound good enough to serve demanding artists. Is that enough for market success in the US when you can buy a better known American guitar (used, in the case of L5 or 7 and the like) for the same or little more money?
If it’s not, they might as well leave the US market before they lose a ton of money here.
-
I definitely think that luthier products should be on the rise. My next guitar will probably be a build. That said, Id really like to play it first and I dont like waiting a year or so. A lot can happen in that timeframe. My ideal situation would be to be able to find one used and play it first.
While I own several guitars they have been accumulated over a lifetime. Since I dont gig I really play one guitar that I really like. Right now its my Eastman 810 carved with a floater. I also agree that if you are buying new and you can find a deal on a good Gibson used its worth buying that. I dont know that you can touch a used carved gibson with a floater for that price. If you do you got lucky. Its a lot easier to order an Eastman and send it back if you dont like it.
-
In a quick search, the asking price for the AR910 is $4799... I couldn't find one being sold for 6k...
Eastman Guitars AR910CE Thermo-cured Archtop Hollowbody Electric Guitar - Truetone Gloss | Sweetwater Access to this page has been denied
Eastman AR910CE-BD-TC Archtop - DjangoBooks.com Eastman AR910CE-BD-TC Archtop - DjangoBooks.com
-
Glad you pointed this out,the prices on the Eastman website are never what they sell for in store.If you don't mind buying used,you can get a 910 for around 3K these days.
Originally Posted by caue amaral
-
Regarding your questions about quality: i wouldnt say that Eastman can replace Gibson sound. Or Campellone sound (from the clips i heard). I played a few Eastmans.
And i also own an Eastman E40-Omtc, an eastman version of the Martin OM-41 or 42.
Eastman sounds great, but the edge is still on Gibsons and Martins, but Eastman are good enough by far.
What they lack? To me a certain deep in the lows, they favour projection but compared to north american brands they lack roundness.
Buiilding/crafting quality is second to none.
-
I think they DCed the 810 with a floater but I found one and it was aroudn 2k in nice shape. My guess is the one with the floater took too many sales from the flagship. Im told the 910 is acoustically louder (I dont know). I play plugged in all the time since my hearing is crap.
-
You can still get a decent L7C for under $5k. There’s a ‘69 on MusicGoRound right now for $4k. There are 2 on Reverb for $5249 and $5300 - and these are just asking prices. Throw on a good pickup and you’re still under the cost of a new 910. Originally Posted by Sigmund451
Given the frequent cyclic fluctuations in the archtop market over many years, we may well see another drop in asking prices for these Gibsons. Once there are more sellers than buyers, prices come down. As soon as the backlog is sold, prices rise again. But I think it’s unlikely that prices will go down at all for new Asian imports. If they stop selling well enough to justify staying in the US market, they’ll just retreat to the rest of the world.
I sometimes wonder if the number of good vintage archtops is holding or dropping. They’ve been played and subjected to the rigors of a long and useful life, e.g. bumps, drops, heat, humidity, light, and the simple attrition of being handled. They’re not as tough as a new Eastman, and the cost of proper maintenance and repair of major wear & tear is creeping up. If (as I suspect) we lose some every year, there will come a time when even a usable L7 or 10 is scarce enough and costly enough to make something like an Eastman the preferred alternative for most of us.
-
A few years ago I had the chance to play my friends mid-90"s Wes Mo and my 05 Eastman Pisano 880 back to back. Not quite a fair comparison (16' vs.17" but all I had to go by. With his permission I restrung the Wes with TI JS 13's. The Pisano had Pyramid flats.
No question the Wes had more volume unplugged. However plugged in I preferred my Pisano. I didn't get any audio clips, but I was out riding my Triumph motorcycle when I stopped by to restring the Wes-this is unplugged after the string change. Mind you it was a hot day and I just got off the bike:
-
Who buys an electric guitar to play acoustically?
I’ve owned both. I’ve had Pisano’s, 810’s, 910’s. But once I purchased a Gibson L5CES (I’ve owned 2 and 1 Wesmo), it was akin to reaching the holy grail in tone quality.
And that’s an unfair comparison because each of those guitars had humbuckers. But still, there’s nothing like that tone found in the crazy number of guitars I’ve owned. I was fortunate to experience these Gibson’s when prices were reasonable. $10k is much too stiff for me today. That’s half a car.
-
I have played some Eastman archtops that were better than some Gibson archtops that I have played, but overall, I have preferred the Gibsons.
My advice is to judge each guitar on its own merits and to buy the best guitar that you can afford.
-
For me,if i'm buying a carved archtop,i want it to sound good plugged in and acoustically.With a laminate,i only care what it sounds like plugged in.I think you really can't compare Eastman's to Gibson,they both have their own thing going for them and i can't really say one is better than the other but Gibson is the sound a lot of people on this forum grew up with and naturally tend to gravitate to. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Who buys an electric guitar to play acoustically?
I’ve owned both. I’ve had Pisano’s, 810’s, 910’s. But once I purchased a Gibson L5CES (I’ve owned 2 and 1 Wesmo), it was akin to reaching the holy grail in tone quality.
And that’s an unfair comparison because each of those guitars had humbuckers. But still, there’s nothing like that tone found in the crazy number of guitars I’ve owned. I was fortunate to experience these Gibson’s when prices were reasonable. $10k is much too stiff for me today. That’s half a car.
-
This may be too broad of a reply and doesn't really address the question at hand directly, because I do not know that it can be for anybody else. We eventually come to see that, at a certain build quality, an excellent instrument is always instrument specific. At the very least 'what you personally vision for the right tone' is also instrument specific. At this stage in the development and technology for instrument construction, I am happy to put $4k into an Eastman and if that same guitar had a Gibson name tag, I might consider the $7k price tag as it's the end result I want, not any budget per se. Speaking only for myself, I am not sure I (me, myself) can get what I want from a Gibson.
I very much appreciate exceptional tone, build quality as well as reliability. I tend to buy and play vintage Japanese alot, but supporting small builders I have had 6 custom guitars made - 2 of them archtops. Those come with their own tone realities. That said, for me Eastman really set a high standard in modern production archtops and semis and I hope to have a couple more at some point. I just think they are doing something exceptional, very special and dynamic tonally, and they seem to be getting better at it. And their guitars are aging well.
Resale aside, yes. For me, I think the question should often be inverted.
If you are strictly referring to the vibe and tone of a 50-70 year old aged wood guitar, there is no real way to compare.
-
I do. I love the sound for solo dates, and it’s beautiful behind a great vocalist. For sound reinforcement, I mic it with a pair of tiny wireless capsules clipped to either side of the strings between bridge and TP. I usually use the pickup because of feedback - but in rooms where the mics work, the sound is wonderful. In small, live rooms I’ve also used my flat top (an acoustic cannon that also has onboard Fishman electronics) without amplification and with great joy . Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
I had a wonderful L50 (sans pickup) for years. When I went to 7 strings, I sold it along with my other 6s. A 7 string acoustic archtop was (and still is) too costly to justify. I simply don’t need one when I have 16” and 17” archtops and a jumbo flat top (with pickups) that also sound great acoustically. But if Eastman or someone else made a good one with laminated body and carved solid top for about $2500, I’d have one.
-
Tariffs... Last week whatever to whomsoever, after SC0TUS momentarily 0%, yesterday per Trump 10%, today 15%, tomorrow ??? How can anybody administer the kaleidoscope, which had some built-in arbitrariness to begin with? Why would anybody buy today, if the price is assumed to fall? (Of course, there's a ratchet released only in desperation.)
The US has an obligation to restitute the high tariffs to importers, who will otherwise be stuck with overpriced inventory and, in the worst case, go broke. Maybe, just maybe, Trump will finally admit that tariffs are ultimately paid by US end-users. I'm in talks with US customers ready to pull the trigger, and all I can say is hold your horses, we ain't seen it all yet.
-
Very few who are serious about owning a given instrument are going to be put off by an additional 10-15 percent the same way I am not put off by paying a 50 or 60 dollar customs fee to an imported Japanese guitar. If anyone was paying attention, the biggest price increases came between 2020-2024 and had nothing to do with tariffs. The increases amounted to about 30%, across the board, not just on select items. We have all paid for that as well and few of us had an option unless you grow your own groceries. IMO nothing is getting cheaper though the ridiculously hot housing market areas seem to be undergoing a slow correction so here's to hoping. Originally Posted by Gitterbug
-
I think it’s plausible that rising Eastman (carved top archtops) prices would shift demand towards toward L7s and L5Cs, but I also think those are probably scarce enough that their prices would then rise, and the price gap between them and Eastman would re-establish itself. That and because there are enough differences in dimensions and sound between Eastman and Gibson archtops it’s not clear to me that they’re really competing.
As far as other premium builders go, Eastman is probably always going to have the advantage of higher production and retail availability. As long as can go on Reverb or walk into a store and immediately get an Eastman without waiting for a luthier to build it, they can probably get away with higher prices.
As to pecking order, I think we’re well past the point where Eastman is seen mainly as good for the money but quite not the real thing. FWIW, I have an Eastman flattop that’s comparable to a Taylor 312ce. I’d say there’s no difference in build quality. The Eastman is cheaper, but there are enough differences in sound that I don’t think price would be the determining factor.
-
To be fair we must compare apples with apples: an Eastman top of the line 910 should be compared with a Gibson acoustic top of the line: an L-5C or a Legrand? maybe a Citation for the high end?
So lets compare sound and price correctly. If we compare a 910 against a L-5 Wesmo we are doing it wrong in my opinion.
To get a little more deep into the debate, i do believe that majority of Gibsons are not meant that much for acoustic sound (except for special models like Citation or Legrand, or L-5C).
I own a L-5 Wesmo, the MrWu's L-5 copy i had sounded far better acoustically. And it cost me at the time 4 times less. 2k against 8k (at that time 2019). I am sure Gibson favours the thicker builds for amplified tone deadning a little bit the l-5 ces, super400, l-4 etc... all solid carved that are not meant to sound great acoustically but great amplified.
My L-5 sounds awful acoustically, and amplfied is the fatness itself.
From what i've seen Eastman favours acoustic tone projection. They were all bright and loud from what I heard in the videos 910 sounds amazing acoustically.
-
Will, I’m lucky enough to have had both the 910C and now the 910CE. You might assume they just added a floater for the CE, but there’s more to it than that. The C is a canon, very loud and alive, whereas the CE is heavier, more subdued, though still loud enough to be used as an acoustic in many situations, as loud as some flattops I’ve had, but it can be put through an amp as well. I have doubts that it could cope in high volume situations without giving out feedback, but in small-scale gigs it would be wonderful.
I would love to have a Citation and/or a LeGrand, but they are way beyond my allowance. I’m lucky with what I have. But if Eastman keep rising their prices for adding bling and torrefied tops, a Gibson would be more attractive, but both would be outwith my budget.
Reply With Quote
A Quilter Superblock US in Canada
Today, 01:08 PM in For Sale