-
I have been stuck in a rut of not liking my sound, especially on gigs when I listen back to recordings. I guess the stuff I hear in my head/enjoy listening to is always changing or evolving, but it’s generally, as the title of this thread suggests, a sound that is warm, full, and on the darker side in terms of tone or amp settings or whatever else. Specific examples include Rogers on “Sight”, Jim Hall on “Live” and most live recordings of Monder playing standards. How would others go about replicating their sounds, ignoring the fact that most of it obviously comes from their fingers? Whenever I roll my tone low, it gets too muddy. Most amp settings leave it sounding too bright for what I’m going for. I want something that is certainly on the lower end but still cuts through in a live room or on a recording.
For reference, my current rig alternates between a 335 and a 175, a small-ish pedalboard, and the amp is always a fender deluxe. The amp settings are usually treble at 2-4, bass at 2, and mids anywhere from 5 to 8. Similar settings on my EQ pedal, guitar tone anywhere from 6 to 10. I use a D’Andrea 1.5 pick and .10s on the 335, flat 12s on the 175. I try to pick as soft as possible.
-
01-11-2026 12:18 AM
-
I also searched for the "illusive sound"
first realize that the examples you picked have access to many resources .. sound engineers and multi track pro studios.
They can filter the sound beyond what the guitar/amp/pedal board can produce. Even live recordings of playing in clubs/concerts may be sound filtered.
Record yourself in various settings from Rock Blues jazz even folk tunes.
Get as close to a sound that you like in each style. What Im saying is expand your hearing ! Play loud with distortion ..reverb and other effects
turn it UP.. have fun..experiment with what is possible with the equipment you have.
Then when you come back to wanting a soft jazz sound you may find you can get close to your ideal sound.
Staying in one sound spectrum and not liking the results may just be your not "stretching your ears"
Contrast and experiment with volume and even some effects will expand your sound abilities making
a radical change in style and volume from high to low much easier to adjust and obtain.
This is my experience and helped me.
-
Are you playing at home by yourself or is this being played in a band situation?
The reason I ask is that I also like a rather dark tone; I have some presbycusis and tinnitus so I find myself being sensitive to high frequencies. What I consider clangy and harsh somebody else will probably hear as clear and sparkling. For the last 10 years or so, I've been trying to acclimate myself to having a brighter tone with some success and positive feedback from others.
When playing with a group, warm and rather dark often becomes mud and disappears in the mix (especially if there's drums because of the washout effect of the cymbals). As a result, I find myself having to turn the treble up in group situations and recordings verify the need to do this. Even though it sounds bright at the amp, it can sound warm and dark 30 feet away embedded in the rest of the musical information being played.
I've never listened to much Adam Rogers; Ben Monder's tone can be dark and distorted to very bright on the bridge pick up, so it depends on what musical moment we're discussing. As far as Jim Hall goes, his tone was often a lot brighter than it seems precisely because he was in a band setting covering up some of that top end (Live and Live Vols 2-4 are peak Jim Hall to me, the crown jewels of a fascinating and brilliant musical career). His tone was quite a bit brighter after he started playing the D'Aquisto.
-
qft
Originally Posted by cunamara
-
Just did a video on my thoughts on tone
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
This is mostly referring to gigging situations. I appreciate all the advice! Also, Jim Hall Live 2-4 is gone from YouTube and streaming, does anyone know if I can access that stuff without paying hundreds for the box set?
-
When you say "Fender Deluxe" which specific amp are you referring to? Deluxe Reverbs don't have a mid control, and other amps with "Deluxe" in the name (Blues Deluxe, Hot Rod Deluxe, etc.) have somewhat different tone stacks, so it's hard to make specific suggestions. But generally speaking I'd suggest rolling the treble and bass off even further (bass off entirely), and bringing the volume up some. The way Fender tone stacks typically work, volume + some overdrive minus bass and treble is the path to a mid-prominent, sustaining tone. Originally Posted by jcbgtr
One thing about Jim Hall that I think people tend to miss is that (except for relatively late in his career when he switched to a much cleaner rig) he generally played the amp pretty loud with quite bit of sustain/compression/ and a bit of distortion, especially his Gibson amp. I heard him use that amp a few times live, and it's what the "Live" album sounds like to me (though some people say it's a Polytone). Rogers also often has either some amp distortion or an overdrive pedal of some kind. Check out this clip, which has quite a bit of overdrive.
Last edited by John A.; 01-11-2026 at 02:35 PM.
-
I saw Jim Hall play live many times from the 70's through the early 00"s. He always used a Polytone amp when I saw him. Guitar wise, it was either his Gibson 175 or (later) his signature Sadowsky model. From the interviews of him that I have read, it seemed that he favored 11 flats as far as his string choice.
IMO, if you get a used Gibson 175 and string it with flats and use a vintage Polytone with a 12 inch speaker or a 10 inch Henriksen (Bud or Blu), you can get the classic Jim Hall dark tone. I do not think a Fender amp. especially the newer ones will get you there.
-
Interesting. Did you ever see Jim with his D'Aquisto? Originally Posted by Stringswinger
-
I saw that DA on album covers but never on any of the gigs that I attended. And I saw him at the Vanguard about a dozen times. Originally Posted by D'Aquisto Fan
-
Some Suggestions: Shorter 24&3/4” scale, neck Humbucker, Flatwound Strings, Speakers with Lower Frequency Response, Hollow Body laminate, in other words a ES-175 spec guitar and a Polytone!
-
This is great - thanks Christian. My key takeaway is that technique is the magic ingredient (damn!). This reminded me of this video with Adam Rogers, where stellar technique shines through in a very informal setting. Joel is a fine player and composer too, saw him in my local UK jazz club some years ago now with a great band of NYC players. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Interesting ... I saw him many times mid-80s to early-2000s in and around NYC (including a few times at the VV) and only ever saw him play the D'Aquisto or the Sadowsky (the last few times I saw him), and never saw him use the 175. I also only ever saw him use the Gibson amp or the custom-built Woods/Kolbe rig, and never saw him use a Polytone. Just based on the recordings/videos I've heard I think the Polytone and the Gibson sound pretty close to each other (with the Gibson having a bit more distortion), but the Woods/Kolbe rig sounded quite a bit different (much more PA-like). Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Last edited by John A.; 01-11-2026 at 02:33 PM.
-
The consistency of Adam’s attack is really mind boggling. You’d think he was using a compressor but none of it comes from gear. Originally Posted by Bill C
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Quantum field theory? Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
-
Available on Apple Music for $47.99. Originally Posted by jcbgtr
-
Your technique does have a fair amount of influence on your tone; how you hold the pick. A loose floppy hold will sound be brighter, not in a good way. Hold the pick with a gently firmness, it should not move between index and thumb. Squeeze too hard and your other hand will over tense and slow you down. Place your fingers as close as possible to the fret. This is something to really put some dedicated practice into. If you don't already, turn your amp up, like close to noon on the dial or a little higher then with your guitar volume off, slowly roll up the volume to where you want it. Don't worry if the tone control is at 2.5, if ir sounds good it is good. You should have the ability to control a good bit of the overall volume with your picking technique. With said volume on 2..5, turn up up to 3 while keeping the spl the same as it was on 2.5 A gentle controlled touch allows you to use dynamics in your playing without moving a knob. When you can control the volume as described you can add emphasis by just digging in a little then back off by lightening up. I have a feeling you're not far at all from where you want to be.
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Is that a Walter Woods amp with a Harry Kolbe speaker? Originally Posted by John A.
If so, that must've been an awesome rig!
-
Nah, "qft" is internet hipster shorthand for "quoted for truth" ...a slightly more erudite way of saying "+1" or "I agree with what ^^^that guy wrote" Originally Posted by Cunamara
-
Yup. Definitely a good, clean sound, and a better vehicle for the harmonizer and looping effects he had started using. But I have a soft spot for that old slightly overdriven Gibson from the earlier days (e.g., the Sonny Rollins, Paul Desmond and Bill Evans records). Originally Posted by Bob_Ross
-
I play a blues deluxe amp. At some point when I’m no longer a broke college student I’d like to get an amp that’s less heavy.
-
Ah, Blues Deluxe, not a Deluxe as you said in your opening post. Originally Posted by jcbgtr
I played a Fender Blues Deluxe (1st edition from ‘94) for years. In my opinion it’s a very difficult amp that behaves very differently when you turn it louder.
I was always fighting overwhelming bass, spikey mids and piercing highs. I had to completely change the tone section, remove a cap from the reverb circuit (which is solid state btw) and install a bias pot to get that amp sounding better. Now I have much better amps.
It’s very possible that amp is the weak link in your sound…..
-
I've found that:
1. If I have the Tone control turned down, so the treble strings aren't too bright, the bass strings sound muddy.
2. If I have the Tone control turned up, so the Bass strings aren't too muddy, the treble strings sound too bright.
Like most things, there is an inbetween compromise. It's just a small matter of being more proficient when Tone knob twiddling.
-
The best compromise I've found, using a 335, is to dial in the sound with the volume down to my rhythm level, and the tone tontrol open. I aim for a sound that's a hair on the bright side but more importantly, where the bass is tight. When I then turn up for louder passages, I usually have to turn the tone control down a bit.
Blues deluxes have a LOT of bass on tap, and overall I think it's an amp that is easiet to work with if you appraoch the tone controls as subractive. Ie. the solution to "I want more mids" is often to turn bass and treble down rather than mids up, if that makes sense
Reply With Quote
Recommandations for Hollowbodies for $600 and under?
Today, 05:20 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos