What does pre-war mean?

[pawlowski6132]

Regarding archtop guitars, what does pre-war mean?

[lammie200]

Prior to WWII. So, prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941.

[pawlowski6132]

Prior to WWII. So, prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941.

That's what I initially thought but, there are some other dates that also make sense.

WWII started in September 1939, so anything before that?

What makes the most sense is September 1945 when it ended. I think of POST WW as anything after 9/45. So, logically, anything before 9/45 would have to be pre-war.

[lammie200]

That's what I initially thought but, there are some other dates that also make sense.

WWII started in September 1939, so anything before that?

What makes the most sense is September 1945 when it ended. I think of POST WW as anything after 9/45. So, logically, anything before 9/45 would have to be pre-war.

Maybe. But I think the point with the pre-War description is that it would have been built before resources were shifted to war implement production, rations, etc. I would think that the nitpickers could say that 1942 to 1945 production would have been wartime production.

And, obviously, I am talking USA. Something built in 1938 could be pre-war for Austria, for example.

[Christian Miller]

Probably depends on where you are buying.

[jaymen]

Loosely, it is typically considered pre-war in the USA if it's 1942 or earlier.
For Europe, Circa 1939.

However, there are exceptions due to overlaps of manufacturing runs.
Guitar manufactures continued building instruments from existing stock of materials until they ran out due to wartime restrictions being imposed on "critical" materials.
This did not happen overnight, it took several months, and also, the makers were able to produce guitars using materials they obtained prior to restrictions being imposed.
Thus, as it became apparent certain materials were becoming restricted, guitar makers came up with 'wartime' versions using less critical and exempt materials (no metal truss rods, and no chrome plating). Substitutes for certain woods such as Spruce, mahogany and ebony, less ornate. So the War Time models did not appear until well into 1942 here in the USA, and prior to that they were making and selling some "pre-war" models, in 1942.

As with everything, there is no hard cutoff date for each manufacturer, and each model of guitar; it was more of an era, defined by the guitars features, and /or lack there of, that determine what is a pre-war, wartime, and post war guitar. Some of the war time models were still made and sold after WW2 ended, but are not considered post war.

[customxke]

I’ve always used prewar, wartime, and post-war, and based it on the country of manufacture. A prewar Selmer would be 1939 or earlier, where a prewar Gibson be 1941 or earlier.

[buduranus2]

WHAT DOES PRE-WAR MEAN?
The time between when I leave the bar and walk in the front door.

[Strat-itis]

[stevo58]

In the Pacific, pre-war would either mean before 1937 (dates of the second Sino-Japanese war) or pre-1931 (Mukden incident, leading to the Japanese occupation of Manchuria). But for US guitar production, as stated above, it would mean before the switch to a wartime economy.

Of course, another point of view is that there was one world war, with a short cease fire which included a worldwide depression, so that would make pre-war before 1915

[Litterick]

In the Pacific, pre-war would either mean before 1937 (dates of the second Sino-Japanese war) or pre-1931 (Mukden incident, leading to the Japanese occupation of Manchuria). But for US guitar production, as stated above, it would mean before the switch to a wartime economy.

Of course, another point of view is that there was one world war, with a short cease fire which included a worldwide depression, so that would make pre-war before 1915

In most of the Pacific, pre-war means before 1st September 1939.

[GuyBoden]

Prewar Banjos Wiki:

"Although this term normally refers to World War II, when used to describe Gibson banjos, the term prewar operationally refers to banjos made prior to 1947. Production of metal banjo parts was suspended during World War II. However, small numbers of Gibson banjos continued to be constructed and shipped during the war years using stocks of metal parts remaining in factory bins.


Production of metal banjo parts resumed in late 1946; however, it is commonly believed that the metal composition of foundry products delivered to Gibson after World War II was inferior to that of parts produced prior to 1940."

[BBGuitar]

Meaningless phrase used to justify an outrageous price.

[bluejaybill]

Prewar means different things in different countries, but in terms of guitars I hear it mainly referring to Martins. That is because manufacturing and materials changed during WWII, and following the war, they never got back to the methods and materials they used before the war. They stopped scalloping braces, Adirondack spruce ran out ( I once heard it was used up in gliders during the war). Overall the builds got heavier as well. Still great guitars, and war era Martins are quite unique.

Of course prewar can refer to a lot of other things as well.

[stevo58]

In most of the Pacific, pre-war means before 1st September 1939.

Ever heard of Nanjing?

[deacon Mark]

One guitar collector told me the Pre-War meant the guitars that he had before the contested and awful divorce. It does not meet the definition but my personal one is just 1940 for a cutoff date. Pearl Harbor may be exact but not sure.

[Jim Soloway]

Interesting timing. I just had an experience with pre-war and wartime guitars on Monday. This is not about archtops but flat tops. A good friend of mine had a pre-war Gibson flat top that was worth a lot of money but he never really bonded with it musically. He had a lot of dealings with high end acoustics over the years and his favorite was a Martin 00018 from about 1938. He sold it and always regretted it. A 1942 00018 came up at a very reputable dealer with whom he had had a lot of positive experiences and they came up with a trade deal of my friend's Gibson for the dealer's Martin. He's absolutely thrilled with this guitar. He brought it over to my place on Monday so I could at least hear it if not play it. It sounded wonderful. One difference between the 42 and the 38 was in the neck construction. The 38 had a steel rod in the neck. By the time the 42 was built the steel for that rod was restricted so it was built with a long ebony block for reinforcement. That to me would be the cutoff between prewar and wartime guitars: did the builder have to alter the construction of design in order to adhere to wartime rules.

[bluejaybill]

Interesting timing. I just had an experience with pre-war and wartime guitars on Monday. This is not about archtops but flat tops. A good friend of mine had a pre-war Gibson flat top that was worth a lot of money but he never really bonded with it musically. He had a lot of dealings with high end acoustics over the years and his favorite was a Martin 00018 from about 1938. He sold it and always regretted it. A 1942 00018 came up at a very reputable dealer with whom he had had a lot of positive experiences and they came up with a trade deal of my friend's Gibson for the dealer's Martin. He's absolutely thrilled with this guitar. He brought it over to my place on Monday so I could at least hear it if not play it. It sounded wonderful. One difference between the 42 and the 38 was in the neck construction. The 38 had a steel rod in the neck. By the time the 42 was built the steel for that rod was restricted so it was built with a long ebony block for reinforcement. That to me would be the cutoff between prewar and wartime guitars: did the builder have to alter the construction of design in order to adhere to wartime rules.

Agreed, lack of truss rod is the defining characteristic from prewar to war era.

The ebony reinforced war era guitars sound unique. I think a ‘43 D28 is the best I’ve ever played including prewar. I’m still trying to get my buddy to sell it to me!