Advice on getting a "warmer"/"fuller" lead tone from electro-acoustic

[Sune]

Hello everyone.

I'm new to this forum, so please forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong section of the forum, or if these types of questions have been answered a million times before.

I'm a new guitar player, and I only started playing recently. I only have one guitar - an electro-acoustic with steel strings. I like to practice lead lines on it. The guitar has two pickup settings: piezo and acoustic emulation. I love using the piezo for practicing, because it has a very sharp attack and a crystal clear tone, which makes it very easy for me to spot mistakes during my practicing. But I think that when I get ready to perform live or to record something, I would want a warmer/fuller and more "traditional" jazz tone.

I absolutely love my guitar and it inspires me to practice every single day, so while the easy solution might be to simply buy an electric guitar that will give me a traditional jazz tone more immediately, I would like to hear your advice on how I could possibly tweak the tone of my current guitar to get a bit closer to what one would consider a traditional jazz tone. Since I love my guitar so much, I would be loathe to have to change it out for something else. I believe in the saying that whatever guitar inspires you to pick it up and play it every day, that's the right guitar for you, even if it's unconventional.

I'm not a gear head, and I have no experience with amps, pedals or guitar plugins, so any advice is welcome. I don't have any set opinions on whether the solution should come in the form of hardware or software - I'm open to both solutions.

[John A.]

Hello everyone.

I'm new to this forum, so please forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong section of the forum, or if these types of questions have been answered a million times before.

I'm a new guitar player, and I only started playing recently. I only have one guitar - an electro-acoustic with steel strings. I like to practice lead lines on it. The guitar has two pickup settings: piezo and acoustic emulation. I love using the piezo for practicing, because it has a very sharp attack and a crystal clear tone, which makes it very easy for me to spot mistakes during my practicing. But I think that when I get ready to perform live or to record something, I would want a warmer/fuller and more "traditional" jazz tone.

I absolutely love my guitar and it inspires me to practice every single day, so while the easy solution might be to simply buy an electric guitar that will give me a traditional jazz tone more immediately, I would like to hear your advice on how I could possibly tweak the tone of my current guitar to get a bit closer to what one would consider a traditional jazz tone. Since I love my guitar so much, I would be loathe to have to change it out for something else. I believe in the saying that whatever guitar inspires you to pick it up and play it every day, that's the right guitar for you, even if it's unconventional.

I'm not a gear head, and I have no experience with amps, pedals or guitar plugins, so any advice is welcome. I don't have any set opinions on whether the solution should come in the form of hardware or software - I'm open to both solutions.

The options (in order from least to most effective) are:

1. Try rolling the treble almost all the way off on whatever tone controls the guitar has and boosting the mid range on whatever amp you're using (usually does not sound very good, and definitely not much like an electric guitar).
2. Install a magnetic soundhole pickup. There are a zillion options (Krivo, DiMarzio, DeArmond, Baggs, Fishman, etc.). Most involve no mods to the guitar, and many are pretty cheap. The "jazziest" tone will come from the one that fits closest to the end of the fingerboard in your guitar, but because all are basically electric guitar pickups all will be a lot closer the classic jazz tone than a piezo. even the ones that claim to yield a natural acoustic tone (but do not). There are even jazz players known for using this kind of approach (e.g., Django, Gabor Szabo).
3. Get an electric guitar. In the end, everything else is a frustrating kludge. This is the way to go. If you don't want to spend a lot of money, there many possibilities, such as a used Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster or a Godin 5th Ave Kingpin. They're both stupid cheap, very good, and will get you the "jazz" tone.

[sgosnell]

You will not get a warm full jazz tone from a flat-top guitar. Some pedals can help, but it's really tough to get an archtop sound from a flat-top. As John A said, play with the amp's tone controls, and whatever tone controls you may have on the guitar. Rolling off treble is the place to start, but try all of them. It can't hurt, you can always turn the knobs back to wherever you prefer.

[jazzshrink]

Hello everyone. I'm new to this forum...

[Woody Sound]

Welcome. This is a very helpful place. Can you tell us what kind of guitar you are talking about?

[Mick-7]

I just bought one of these (used) for my acoustic-electric guitars (a nylon acoustic-electric and a flat top), I'll let you know if it solves my "dissatisfied with my piezo pickups tone" issue: LR Baggs Para DI Acoustic Guitar Preamp

I had trouble deciding between it and this one, which is simpler: TC Electronic BodyRez Acoustic Pickup Enhancer Pedal
Hopefully I didn't choose the wrong one, I have talent for that.

The type of strings and pick can make an appreciable difference too, I just replaced the 80/20 bronze strings on my flat top with a set of these Martin Monel custom light strings, goodbye overly bright tone: Martin MM11 Retro Acoustic Guitar Strings - .011-.052 Custom Lights

P.S. - You did not say what sort of amplifier you're using, that is a big part of your sound.

[sgosnell]

Yes, the amp makes a difference, as does the pick. You might try a thicker pick. There are a bunch of pick-related threads here, and some might be helpful to you.

[Jimmy Mack]

Whichever way you choose to modify the output of your existing guitar, be careful of adding too much bass or midrange (and maybe volume to compensate for the reduced highs). You may be opening yourself up to amplifier feedback, which big bodied hollow guitars are prone to.

Welcome, and best of luck. Have fun with your search and your enjoyment. This is a great place to find all kinds of info and inspiration.

[Cavalier]

For jazzy acoustic flattops I recommend Ovation Elites or a old A braced Ovation Legend.
EQ can make a big difference as can a compressor. I like flattop sound in a Jazz setting, I'd suggest embracing it.
Magnetic pickups can be a good sound.
I have a ancient Bjarton Isabella with a Kjell right in front of the bridge, I call it my Swedish telecaster because it doesn't sound like a acoustic at all.

[Sune]

Thank you all so much for all your replies. I'll try to reply the best I can to some of the questions I see being asked.

Welcome. This is a very helpful place. Can you tell us what kind of guitar you are talking about?

Thank you, Woody Sound. The guitar is a Yamaha SLG200S (steel string version of the guitar). It may not be what most people consider an ideal starting guitar, but I have to say that I'm incredibly satisfied with it. The neck feels great to me, and the playability is excellent (though, of course, I don't really have anything to compare it to, except for a few electric guitars I owned in my teens, 20 years ago). The guitar stays in tune for many days, even if I practice 6-7 hours a day. The ergonomics are extremely comfortable for me. It's very light and very small, and since I travel a lot with it, it's ideal for me. All of these things are the reasons why I feel reluctant to get a different guitar. The guitar has a built-in pre-amp, so you can plug headphones directly into it, or plug it directly into an audio interface. Maybe the easiest way to explain the features is through this video:

Mick-7 asked me what kind of amplifier I have. I don't have an amplifier. You can plug headphones straight into the guitar's pre-amp, but most of the time I plug it directly into an audio interface and listen to the direct input, so that's why I haven't had the need for an amplifier yet. So far I've just been practicing on my own.

The gist I'm getting from the different comments is that realistically, I'll just have to embrace the acoustic sound for my jazz lead playing (which I'm happy to do if that's the only realistic option with my guitar).

P.S. Sorry about posting two videos, but I'm in a passionate love affair with my guitar. I'm sure you all understand.

[GuyBoden]

You could try a Fender Deluxe Reverb or Polytone amp software emulator thru a computer for home practice, using your guitar's clean tone.

[garybaldy]

even if I practice 6-7 hours a day.

How to make someone feel guilty!!!!

[Sigmund451]

I will second the fact that picks make a huge difference.
For years I used standard medium and heavy Fender picks.

I changed to Dunlop Jazz III nylon picks. The difference in tone is tremendous.
Its literally night and day.

My right hand technique is far from great but it improved significanly when I moved to the smaller size pick. For me, its a lot easier to change your angle of attack if the pick isnt so large.

If you put on a magnetic pup you can experiment with different strings.
Ive never put electric strings or flats on a flat top so I dont know if thats a good or terrible idea.

Like others have said, you wont make it sound like an archtop. That doesnt mean it cant sound good. If you are not buying guitars and bunches of amps its pretty cheap to experiment. Simply becuase there is a traditional jazz tone doesnt mean you have to employ it. There sure are a lot of people out on the fringes. If you play it well and find a sound you think works be happy.

[GuyBoden]

If you put on a magnetic pup you can experiment with different strings.

I don't think a magnetic pickup will fit onto a SLG200S guitar. Without severely compromising the structural integrity of the guitar. (Involves cutting a slot near the neck.)

[John A.]

I don't think a magnetic pickup will fit onto a SLG200S guitar. Without severely compromising the structural integrity of the guitar. (Involves cutting a slot near the neck.)

You could stick a thin pickup (e.g. Krivo) with putty.

[Mick-7]

You could try a Fender Deluxe Reverb or Polytone amp software emulator thru a computer for home practice, using your guitar's clean tone.

Yes, that makes sense, some sort of pedal should get Sune closer to the sound he wants, and in fact, since he's not using an amp, it may be his only practical option.

The guitar stays in tune for many days, even if I practice 6-7 hours a day.

How to make someone feel guilty!!!!

He only does that once a month, do you feel better now?

[Woody Sound]

Thank you all so much for all your replies. I'll try to reply the best I can to some of the questions I see being asked.



Thank you, Woody Sound. The guitar is a Yamaha SLG200S (steel string version of the guitar). It may not be what most people consider an ideal starting guitar, but I have to say that I'm incredibly satisfied with it. The neck feels great to me, and the playability is excellent (though, of course, I don't really have anything to compare it to, except for a few electric guitars I owned in my teens, 20 years ago). The guitar stays in tune for many days, even if I practice 6-7 hours a day. The ergonomics are extremely comfortable for me. It's very light and very small, and since I travel a lot with it, it's ideal for me. All of these things are the reasons why I feel reluctant to get a different guitar. The guitar has a built-in pre-amp, so you can plug headphones directly into it, or plug it directly into an audio interface. Maybe the easiest way to explain the features is through this video:

Ah, I have a (cheap) silent guitar. If you're going through the headphones, there's not much you can do other than what's on the guitar. Maybe try heavier flatwound strings and a heavier pick. Definitely use the darkest sounding strings you can get. If you're going into a computer interface, there should be something to put in-between that can darken up the sound, like a preamp pedal that goes in front of an amp. I don't do the computer thing, so I don't know.

[John A.]

Thank you all so much for all your replies. I'll try to reply the best I can to some of the questions I see being asked.



Thank you, Woody Sound. The guitar is a Yamaha SLG200S (steel string version of the guitar). It may not be what most people consider an ideal starting guitar, but I have to say that I'm incredibly satisfied with it. The neck feels great to me, and the playability is excellent (though, of course, I don't really have anything to compare it to, except for a few electric guitars I owned in my teens, 20 years ago). The guitar stays in tune for many days, even if I practice 6-7 hours a day. The ergonomics are extremely comfortable for me. It's very light and very small, and since I travel a lot with it, it's ideal for me. All of these things are the reasons why I feel reluctant to get a different guitar. The guitar has a built-in pre-amp, so you can plug headphones directly into it, or plug it directly into an audio interface. Maybe the easiest way to explain the features is through this video:

Mick-7 asked me what kind of amplifier I have. I don't have an amplifier. You can plug headphones straight into the guitar's pre-amp, but most of the time I plug it directly into an audio interface and listen to the direct input, so that's why I haven't had the need for an amplifier yet. So far I've just been practicing on my own.

The gist I'm getting from the different comments is that realistically, I'll just have to embrace the acoustic sound for my jazz lead playing (which I'm happy to do if that's the only realistic option with my guitar).

P.S. Sorry about posting two videos, but I'm in a passionate love affair with my guitar. I'm sure you all understand.

There might be some sort of impulse response (IR) plug-in or box that takes a piezo signal and transforms it into the sound of an electric guitar, but I've only ever heard of the reverse of that. Absent that, your guitar is what it is. Either live with the sound or get something else. It takes time and experimentation to figure out what gear works for you. There's no avoiding that.

[Woody Sound]

You could stick a thin pickup (e.g. Krivo) with putty.

+1

[Woody Sound]

ps - Nothing wrong with that guitar, they're nice.