Ibanez Artcore jazzbox getting lost in the mix - pickup recommendations

[Openvoice]

Hi,

So I have an Ibanez Ag95QA with the newer lower output Alnico pups (Super 58 Custom). I love the guitar in a solo context but I am getting lost in the mix with my big band. I tend to play through a Blues Junior though sometimes a Twin. When I use a tele or strat, cutting through isn't an issue.

Usually I am running the amp with the mids up, bass down and treble midway. I always have to keep the tone control up on 10 which is unusual for me since i usually back it off a bit for jazz.

Usually I like lower output pickups but I feel the guitar needs more punch. The construction is little bit strange with an ash body. I know a Seth Lover is a common neck p/u choice but what about something like a Benedetto A6? I have had a couple other archtops (Heritage 575, Epi Joe Pass) and didnt encounter this problem. Thanks for any suggestions.

[Cunamara]

Clean boost/EQ pedal? Cheaper and easier, but could work a treat.

[58flame]

ZVex Super Hard On.

[Openvoice]

I try to avoid pedals for jazz but I might. Maybe an eq pedal to see what freq I need a boost. For now I raised the pickup up as high as it can go.

[KirkP]

I don’t see how anyone can advise you how to better “cut through” without knowing a lot more about your big band and what range of frequencies you feel you need to better fill.

I’ve got a number of guitars with a variety of pickups, but have never felt compelled to change the pickup to get the tonal quality I’m looking for. I find with a good amp, speaker, and guitar I can usually dial in something that works in a given situation. Occasionally I’ll add a clean pedal for additional EQ controls.

Of course there is no way my Artcore will cut through the way my Telecaster can. If I need that, I’ll bring the Tele.

[starjasmine]

When you say "lost in the mix" do you mean that you can't hear yourself on the bandstand or that people in the audience can't hear you?

• One way you might resolve the former is to get yourself a monitor of some kind - maybe a pair of lightweight open-back headphones, so you can still hear the band but dial in your guitar monitor to your liking.
• To resolve the latter, try a really long cord or a wireless setup to get out into the venue and hear what you actually sound like to the audience. Both of those things change tone a bit, but both would probably yield a net positive in terms of being able to get a better idea of what you sound like in the house.

And I also +1 the suggestions for an EQ pedal. Could be the quickest way to dial in a better tone without changing guitar and amp settings from what works for you in other situations.

[Woody Sound]

Also, important about your question, you're not cutting through in what "musical" context? What kind of music? Traditional dance band? More modern jazz? Basie, etc? Even more modern and loud like Maynard, etc? When you're comping? Soloing? Are you playing along side a traditional piano and (amplified) upright bass? Or is it loud electric kb and loud electric bass?

[Openvoice]

I don’t see how anyone can advise you how to better “cut through” without knowing a lot more about your big band and what range of frequencies you feel you need to better fill.

I’ve got a number of guitars with a variety of pickups, but have never felt compelled to change the pickup to get the tonal quality I’m looking for. I find with a good amp, speaker, and guitar I can usually dial in something that works in a given situation. Occasionally I’ll add a clean pedal for additional EQ controls.

Of course there is no way my Artcore will cut through the way my Telecaster can. If I need that, I’ll bring the Tele.

It's a traditional big band but is larger than most, about double the woodwinds you normally have so about 24 people total. I'll have to bring an eq pedal to see but my guess is that I need more high mids. The rehearsal space is always set up so I dont normally bring my amp (Quilter Mach 2). The tweed setting is my go to with this guitar since it midfocused and you lose some of the low end flubb with the blackface setting.

[Openvoice]

When you say "lost in the mix" do you mean that you can't hear yourself on the bandstand or that people in the audience can't hear you?

• One way you might resolve the former is to get yourself a monitor of some kind - maybe a pair of lightweight open-back headphones, so you can still hear the band but dial in your guitar monitor to your liking.
• To resolve the latter, try a really long cord or a wireless setup to get out into the venue and hear what you actually sound like to the audience. Both of those things change tone a bit, but both would probably yield a net positive in terms of being able to get a better idea of what you sound like in the house.

And I also +1 the suggestions for an EQ pedal. Could be the quickest way to dial in a better tone without changing guitar and amp settings from what works for you in other situations.

I do have a cheap wireless thing I can try for testing purposes. Great idea!

[Openvoice]

Also, important about your question, you're not cutting through in what "musical" context? What kind of music? Traditional dance band? More modern jazz? Basie, etc? Even more modern and loud like Maynard, etc? When you're comping? Soloing? Are you playing along side a traditional piano and (amplified) upright bass? Or is it loud electric kb and loud electric bass?

It's traditional piano and upright. It's mainly Big band era stuff, Kenton, Basie, Ellington, etc. I think for solos it's fine since our players will adjust to the soloist's dynamics but for comping and single line parts, it get buried a lot. Even if I go for Freddie Green shell voicings sometimes. Part of it is that band just has more members now than it did before so it just fuller sounding than normal.

[rpjazzguitar]

One thing that's easy to try is to lower the pickup and then raise the polepieces. That way, the pu, overall, senses a shorter length of string, which can emphasize higher harmonics, which might be useful to you.

You mention that both a Tele and a Strat work. If those have single coil pu's, you may be looking for a single coil sound from a humbucker. That might suggest a type of replacement pu that would work for you, meaning one that produces a single coil sound. Might be worth checking if your current pus can split the coils, although I didn't see it mentioned in an online ad.

You mention that both a Tele and a Strat work. If those have single coil pu's, you may be looking for a single coil sound from a humbucker. That might suggest a type of replacement pu that would work for you, meaning one that produces a single coil sound. Might be worth checking if your current pus can split the coils, although I didn't see it mentioned in an online ad.

And of course, there's the idea to use the Tele or Strat and save the Ibanez for what it sounds good at.

BTW, I have a similar issue. I play a Comins GCS-1 for big band. The coilsplit sounds pretty good for comping, not quite so pleasing for solos. My solution, lately, is a JBL Eon One Compact as my guitar amp while using the HB neck pu. It has 4 band EQ on the channel and another 8 on the output. I'm able to dial the lows down, thereby cutting out the mud, without losing thickness of the higher notes during solos, at least not to a level that bothers me. Most people don't do this and there must be a reason why not, but I like it.

[Average Joe]

Usually I am running the amp with the mids up, bass down and treble midway.

Have you tried keeping the treble up and the mids down a bit? I think sitting well in a big band mix is often about cutting the frequencies that clash with the rest of the band, I find I often need a brighter or thinner sound than expected. And those blues Jrs have a lot of mids.

I switch between a strat and a 335 in a big band. The strat fits surprisingly easy, the 335 I need to find a thinner sound.

also, are you always on the neck pickup? The other two positions can be easier to fit in sometimes, less lower mids to get buried

[Woody Sound]

On a related note, this is why Mitch Holder asked Gibson for a 3-P90 ES guitar, which they did and dubbed the ES-357, also known as the "ES-Mitch." It allowed people used to the 335 to get a more cutting sound out of it, a little closer to Srat tones. I forgot how many they made but I believe it was just a handful, for several studio colleagues of Mitch, but I'm not sure.

[Woody Sound]

On a related note, this is why Mitch Holder asked Gibson for a 3-P90 ES guitar, which they did and dubbed the ES-357, also known as the "ES-Mitch." It allowed people used to the 335 to get a more cutting sound out of it, a little closer to Srat tones. I forgot how many they made but I believe it was just a handful, for several studio colleagues of Mitch, but I'm not sure.

(PS - Unlike the OP, it wasn't really a question of live music, it was studio recording. In the 80's, with all the synth pop and layers, the seasoned guys with 335s couldn't cut through (or compete with the popular explosion of the Strat.)

[Openvoice]

One thing that's easy to try is to lower the pickup and then raise the polepieces. That way, the pu, overall, senses a shorter length of string, which can emphasize higher harmonics, which might be useful to you.

You mention that both a Tele and a Strat work. If those have single coil pu's, you may be looking for a single coil sound from a humbucker. That might suggest a type of replacement pu that would work for you, meaning one that produces a single coil sound. Might be worth checking if your current pus can split the coils, although I didn't see it mentioned in an online ad.

You mention that both a Tele and a Strat work. If those have single coil pu's, you may be looking for a single coil sound from a humbucker. That might suggest a type of replacement pu that would work for you, meaning one that produces a single coil sound. Might be worth checking if your current pus can split the coils, although I didn't see it mentioned in an online ad.

And of course, there's the idea to use the Tele or Strat and save the Ibanez for what it sounds good at.

BTW, I have a similar issue. I play a Comins GCS-1 for big band. The coilsplit sounds pretty good for comping, not quite so pleasing for solos. My solution, lately, is a JBL Eon One Compact as my guitar amp while using the HB neck pu. It has 4 band EQ on the channel and another 8 on the output. I'm able to dial the lows down, thereby cutting out the mud, without losing thickness of the higher notes during solos, at least not to a level that bothers me. Most people don't do this and there must be a reason why not, but I like it.

The Ibanez cannot split coils. My tele has a humbucker in the neck (Duncan 59). The other guitar player uses an SG and he cuts through no problem so it might be at a disadvantage to have a full hollowbody. A monitor is interesting, if only for the reason that you can point it up at you.

[Openvoice]

Have you tried keeping the treble up and the mids down a bit? I think sitting well in a big band mix is often about cutting the frequencies that clash with the rest of the band, I find I often need a brighter or thinner sound than expected. And those blues Jrs have a lot of mids.

I switch between a strat and a 335 in a big band. The strat fits surprisingly easy, the 335 I need to find a thinner sound.

also, are you always on the neck pickup? The other two positions can be easier to fit in sometimes, less lower mids to get buried

I have tried getting more of a scooped sound and single lines disappeared. Sometimes using the two pups together is better for clarity but I have to up the amp volume a bit to compensate. Also, I havent checked the speaker on this BJ but it is a limited edition one so it may have an extra dark speaker like a Cannibis Rex..

I may go back to the tele or try my strat.

[garybaldy]

Just curious as to what happens if you just turn up the volume?

[Openvoice]

(PS - Unlike the OP, it wasn't really a question of live music, it was studio recording. In the 80's, with all the synth pop and layers, the seasoned guys with 335s couldn't cut through (or compete with the popular explosion of the Strat.)

I think that's a good point. Our extra players eat up more frequencies and I might be better off thinking of this like a funk band and try a strat to poke through better.

[Openvoice]

Just curious as to what happens if you just turn up the volume?

It is a little easier to hear but the band director gets annoyed. He is in direct line of sight of the amp.

[garybaldy]

It is a little easier to hear but the band director gets annoyed. He is in direct line of sight of the amp.

Presumably that's because he then thinks you are too loud. May be you need to turn down to a level he likes and get yourself a monitor. Clearly whatever frequencies you try to enhance with whatever equipment you use to punch through will be too loud for him because it will still be in his line of sight.

[Woody Sound]

It is a little easier to hear but the band director gets annoyed. He is in direct line of sight of the amp.

Reposition your amp so it doesn't point at him. I also play in a loud, modern big band, and I know that makes a big difference. Here are two short clips of us from an outdoor performance. The very beginning of the concert and the very end. Loud. At the time I was using an ES-275 Montreux, a hollow laminate like yours.

[Woody Sound]

On the other hand, and don't take this negatively, maybe you're overthinking the role/importance of the guitar(?). Obviously I haven't heard the band and have no idea what you/they do. But a well know saying is that unless taking a solo, the guitar in a big band is like the vanilla in baking. You don't really taste it individually, but your brain knows if it's there or not.

[rpjazzguitar]

The Ibanez cannot split coils. My tele has a humbucker in the neck (Duncan 59). The other guitar player uses an SG and he cuts through no problem so it might be at a disadvantage to have a full hollowbody. A monitor is interesting, if only for the reason that you can point it up at you.

The Duncan Little 59 is a Strat size pu that's actually a HB. Are we talking about the same one? Because it's narrower than a standard humbucker it senses a shorter length of string, thereby emphasizing higher order harmonics. Similar conceptually to raising the pole pieces on a HB. I have one in a Strat copy which I use occasionally in big band.

One thing that matters to me about using the powered speaker is that it has a closed back. So, I have to figure out how everybody, including me, is going to hear it.

Another thing that just occured to me is raising the amp off the floor, if it was on the floor to begin with. Coupling to the floor can reinforce the bass frequences which might reduce the cutting quality you're looking for. With some amps the effect is very significant.

And, when all these things fail, you can always try a different pu. I don't have a recommendation for one.

[Zack]

Got myself a Rodenberg GAS-707B
Booster pedal. It works woderfully well on guitar too. You should try!

[Openvoice]

On the other hand, and don't take this negatively, maybe you're overthinking the role/importance of the guitar(?). Obviously I haven't heard the band and have no idea what you/they do. But a well know saying is that unless taking a solo, the guitar in a big band is like the vanilla in baking. You don't really taste it individually, but your brain knows if it's there or not.

It's more about hearing myself. I agree that most of the time, especially during loud sections, the guitar is more felt than heard.