Early 30s Gibson L-4 or L-7

[garybaldy]

I took the plunge and bid on this on Ebay and got it. Depending on what you read/see on the net it's either an L4 or L7.

I won't have it until the end of the week. Can't wait! I'll be putting it back to right handed.

[wintermoon]

Congrats but how do you know it's not a factory lefty?
The lefty cut nut and decaying guard look orig and have been on there a very long time judging by the impression in the case lid, but the bracket mounting holes and tailpiece string slots might tell the tale.

[garybaldy]

Congrats but how do you know it's not a factory lefty?
The lefty cut nut and decaying guard look orig and has been on there a very long time judging by the impression in the case lid, but the bracket mounting holes might tell the tale.

Thanks. I can just about make out the neck binding fret marker dots on what would be a right handed guitar - unless they are on both sides.

[GuyBoden]

Beautiful old Gibson. I bet you'll be very happy with this guitar.

[garybaldy]

Beautiful old Gibson. I bet you'll be very happy with this guitar.

Thanks. Possibly a bit of a gamble. It was a very sketchy description on ebay and it 'belonged to the seller's uncle' so he 'didn't know anything about it'. Listing title was 'Gibson Guitar'! It was probably the first time I'd put just those two words in the search bar. Sometimes the less you put, the better the result.

[Sam Sherry]

G, if these folks don't know much about guitars it's fair to assume that they don't know much about shipping guitars.
Perhaps they're amenable to some gentle reminders.

I've bought a bunch of guitars off ShopGoodWill.com
They've all been pretty nice people but none of them have ever shipped a guitar in their life.


Eager to hear that it has landed safely!

[garybaldy]

G, if these folks don't know much about guitars it's fair to assume that they don't know much about shipping guitars.
Perhaps they're amenable to some gentle reminders.

I've bought a bunch of guitars off ShopGoodWill.com
They've all been pretty nice people but none of them have ever shipped a guitar in their life.


Eager to hear that it has landed safely!

I'm picking it up on Friday. Approx 7hr round trip but much safer!

[garybaldy]

Just a quick update on this guitar which I collected today instead of Friday.
White label:
1. Serial no. indicates it's a 1933 (as per Guitarhq.com)
2. Hand written 'L7'
3. Hand written 'Left Hand'
Forgot to check the FON - will look tomorrow!
Bridge is left handed ('L7 L' written in pencil on the underside) - not easy to convert for right handed. May just angle it more for now.
Tailpiece string slots indicate it's also left handed.
Pickguard probably original. No signs of screw holes in guitar to suggest it was ever right handed.
Neck binding has fret dots on both sides. Some places the binding needs gluing back. It's pretty thin.
Neck is almost straight. TR nut looks 'healthy'.
Wondering if a neck re set is necessary. I need to get a new (full) set of strings on.
If anyone's interested I'll add some pics and more detail.
I'll probably do that regardless!

[wintermoon]

Just a quick update on this guitar which I collected today instead of Friday.
White label:
1. Serial no. indicates it's a 1932 (as per Guitarhq.com)
2. Hand written 'L7'
3. Hand written 'Left Hand'
Forgot to check the FON - will look tomorrow!th
Bridge is left handed ('L7 L' written in pencil on the underside) - not easy to convert for right handed. May just angle it more for now.
Tailpiece string slots indicate it's also left handed.
Pickguard probably original. No signs of screw holes in guitar to suggest it was ever right handed.
Neck binding has fret dots on both sides. Some places the binding needs gluing back. It's pretty thin.
Neck is almost straight. TR nut looks 'healthy'.
Wondering if a neck re set is necessary. I need to get a new (full) set of strings on.
If anyone's interested I'll add some pics and more detail.
I'll probably do that regardless!

Had a feeling it was a factory lefty, the guard and nut look original, the only thing that gave me pause was the side dots which you just confirmed. Not as hard to convert as you think, get a new nut, bridge saddle, guard if you want one, and drill out the t.p. if necessary to accommodate the strings.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Had a feeling it was a factory lefty, the guard and nut look original, the only thing that gave me pause was the side dots which you just confirmed. Not as hard to convert as you think, get a new nut, bridge saddle, guard if you want one, and drill out the t.p. if necessary to accommodate the strings.

The bridge saddle could probably still be used, but the posts in the base are backwards for left handed intonation.


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[wintermoon]

Not a big deal but I'd be curious to see if the bass tone bar is splayed slightly for a lefty guitar as well or they just used a standard righty body.

[garybaldy]

Thanks TRM and WM.
Being a novice in all things vintage I initially worried about what inevitably will need to be done. I'm ok with that now.
I can't check the tone bars atm as all I have is my phone and even that won't slide through the narrow f holes. Hope they won't be detrimental to the sound if they are specifically have been installed as a lefty. I expect they have been! Some bad pics!

[GuyBoden]

Great guitar.

Just an idea, that I'm sure you have thought too.

Could you take off the pickguard, turn it upside down and use it as a right handed pickguard.

You'd need to remove the connecting block and then polish out any marks with progressive sand paper grits. Until it shines.

Just my thoughts.

[garybaldy]

Great guitar.

Just an idea, that I'm sure you have thought too.

Could you take off the pickguard, turn it upside down and use it as a right handed pickguard.

You'd need to remove the connecting block and then polish out any marks with progressive sand paper grits. Until it shines.

Just my thoughts.

Nice idea but there is a 1/2" extra strip of pg material glued along the straight edge for stiffness. I suppose that could be taken of. My thoughts are to keep any specific left handed parts unaltered. They must be quite rare and someone one day might want them. Is it stupid to say they are history?!!

[garybaldy]

The bridge saddle could probably still be used, but the posts in the base are backwards for left handed intonation.


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yes, I agree. As I very recently posted, I don't want to alter any of the original parts other than tease open some of the TP string slots and amend the nut (which, because the indents are very small, it's not much different from end to end).
I shall probably try to make a bridge base myself - may be not an exact replica but 'functional.
Whether any one would eventually want to return it back, who knows, they will then be able to do so.

[wintermoon]

It's pretty unusual to see factory lefties but especially so that long ago and indicated on parts and label, that's a really cool thing.

As for the guard it's heavily decomposed and should be removed permanently but don't discard it. Keep it away from anything you don't want to get damaged from the caustic fumes.

Not a big deal on the tone bars they won't affect the sound much.

btw to this day the best sounding D'Angelico I ever played was a '42 lefty Excel converted righty.

[omphalopsychos]

Now you should have no guilt using those holes on the neck to install a dearmond.

[garybaldy]

It's pretty unusual to see factory lefties but especially so that long ago and indicated on parts and label, that's a really cool thing.

As for the guard it's heavily decomposed and should be removed permanently but don't discard it. Keep it away from anything you don't want to get damaged from the caustic fumes.

Not a big deal on the tone bars they won't affect the sound much.

btw to this day the best sounding D'Angelico I ever played was a '42 lefty Excel converted righty.

Whilst comtempating about it last night having unscrewed the pg and trc and seeing the label and the hand written stuff I thought it was pretty cool too. My stepson who came in late after a few beers and knows nothing about guitars thought the same and actually said I shouldn't modify any of the bits. He could see the intrinsic value as well.
Thanks for the interesting points about the bars.

[garybaldy]

Congratulations on the cool find. Score! Let us know how your vintage German archtops compare in sound to the Gibson.

And I am interested in the sound compared to my Loar 700.
I guess I need some PB or Monel to put on it. I think I have some somewhere!

[wintermoon]

And I am interested in the sound compared to my Loar 700.

get ready to sell your Loar

[garybaldy]

get ready to sell your Loar

Haha! I have difficulty selling any of my guitars!

[garybaldy]

UPDATE: The good news is that I sourced an original right hand bridge, made an offer and it was accepted! Not cheap but exactly what I wanted. Saves me attempting to make a new base or altering the lefty base (I wouldn't have done that anyway).
Probably 3 weeks till I get it.
Can't wait.

[garybaldy]

Base on this cut and pasted extract from Guitarhq.com could someone please clarify what my FON no. means?
The number is 91289.
Does it fit the 1925 - 1931 category? ie. 4 digit FON and 1 digit batch no. or
Does it fit the 1931 - 1933 category? ie. 3 digit FON being being one of the 'isolated higher nos.' and a 2 digit batch no. being one of the 'triple batches'.
I guess it'll be the 2nd because L7s started in 1933 (so I believe). It just seems unnecessarily complicated.
See pic of label as well. And what is the pencil number seen through the treble F hole please?
Thanks

Gibson Factory Order Numbers

• Factory Order Number Configuration and Placement.
  
  • 1908-1930: Factory Order Numbers stamped on neck block inside body. Pretty much sequentially ordered.
  • 1932-1935: FON numbers "roll over" from 9999, reusing old numbers. Important: this new series of FONs from 1932 to 1935 are *not* in sequential order. It was like in 1932 the FONs were pre-printed, and someone dropped the pile on the floor.
  • 1935-1941: Factory Order Numbers and Letter Codes. Now FONs contain a letter A to G, ink stamped on the inside back or on the neck block (flattops), or on the label.
  • 1938-1941: Factory Order Numbers beginning with the letter D to H pressed into the back of the peghead.
  • 1942-1947: Factory Order Numbers with 3 or 4 digits, followed by a hyphen, followed by 1 or 2 more digits, ink stamped on neck block (flattops) or on the inside back,
  • 1947-1952: Factory Order Numbers of 3 or 4 digits, followed by a hyphen, followed by by 1 or 2 more digits, ink stamped on the inside back.
  • 1952-1961: Factory Order Numbers beginning with the letter Q to Z, ink stamped on inside back, all hollowbody models.
  
  Gibson Factory Order Numbers, 1902 to 1945 - Overview.
  
  
  • The Factory Order Number (FON) consists of a 3, 4 or 5 digit batch number followed by a 1 or 2 digit sequence number (usually from 1 to 40, but there were some double or triple batches where the numbers were higher). The following are a summary of FONs as documented by Joe Spann in his great book of Gibson FON numbers.
    Years Batch Number Range
    ----- ------------------
    1902-1916 1 thru 3650
    1917-1923 11000 thru 12000
    1924-1925 11000A thru 11250A ("A" suffix used)
    1925-1931 8000 thru 9999
    1931-1933 1 thru 890 (with some isolated higher numbers)
    1934 1 thru 1500 (with some isolated higher numbers)
    1935 1A thru 1520A (most with "A" suffix and some isolated higher numbers)
    1936 1B thru 1100B (most with "B" suffix and some isolated higher numbers)
    1937 1C thru 1400C (most with "C" suffix and some isolated higher numbers)
    1938 1d thru 1000d (most with "D" suffix and some isolated higher numbers)
    1939 1E thru 980E (most with "E" suffix and some isolated higher numbers)
    1940-1945 1 thru 7900 (some with letter suffix or prefix, some with neither)

[ThatRhythmMan]

That’s the serial number on the label. Joe Spann’s book would place that in the 1934.


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[garybaldy]

That’s the serial number on the label. Joe Spann’s book would place that in the 1934.


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Thanks. I've been confusing ser. nos. with FONs.
On further investigation 2 sources date 91289 as a '33. Last of the '33 was serial 91400.
If the FON is the pencilled number 1106 (It could be 9011), I believe that would make it a '34.
From what I've read, if anything, the FON should date earlier than the ser. no. so this is a bit strange.