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So apparently discussing vintage guitars and amps,etc.in the The Gear Page Vintage Forum, One must never say anything that’s remotely realistic or critical about any vintage instrument
The funny part is being called a Troll or Stay in your lane,Old Man without most of them not actually ever owning these guitars, Lol!
Im 68 and have owned almost every vintage Gibson and of Fender imaginable
This is through 55 year period starting in 1970 with a 67 Strat then trading for a 1968 Gold Top. And through the years owning 1958 Mono ES-355 w/ gold Bigsby and on to every model vintage Les Paul from 1952 trapeze to 2 different Gold Tops with PAF Humbuckers,as well as fine vintage Gibson Archtops,and flat tops
.Now I always was trading and buying these mostly inexpensively in the ‘70’s and 80’s. and couldn’t afford to keep more than 2 at any one time
So I’m told to butt out of the Vintage threads and read the rules.I did and only talked about my experiences with both vintage and newer historic counterparts. As well as stated, these we’re discussing them as tools not investments.
But apparently any real critique even if true or real experience as a gigging professional is Non Persona Gratta for many.
Man talk about not living in reality. I don’t think these negative commentators even play music. At least not for money nor any kind of living.
Really Sad commentary about the current state of music imo.
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10-09-2025 09:01 PM
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Problem is I actually Have owned every Les Pauls model except the vintage burst. It s not bullshit but reality,amd as stated above I’m old enough to remember when they weren’t so ridiculously priced.
Ask me any thing you like about any particular guitar and I will tell you about it and the actual process I paid
In example I traded stupidly traded my 1958 ES-355 Mono with Bigsby to George Gruhn in 1974 at GTR store for a Mint come 1952 Gold Top Les Paul with a Trapeze. Hated that and traded it back for a 1956 Custom with Alnico and Staple,front pickup and again disliked it.
Finally drove to Nashville from New Orleans and traded it back for A 1961 Black Beauty with a repaired headstock and Bigsby. I couldn’t afford the 1958 Gold Top with PAF’s for $1400 which was not doable for me. Finally after working a summer job and selling my Marshall 100 watt head I traded for the ‘58 Gold Top with a dark back and neck. It came from Arizona originally. I then traded that to Wayne Cochran’s guitarist from Houston Texas Kenny Corday for his beat up 1958 Gold Top which I preferred to mine.
He played in a local ew Orleans band called the Jackson Brewing Company in Fat City a club district of Metairie,Louisiana. If you do some digging on reverb look him up on Yotube. Phenomenal Guitarist! And I was just 18 at the time.
Remember I’m now 68 years old and these instruments while not cheap,were nowhere near today’s insane collector prices! Also there were no reissued Historic Les Pauls that were anywhere as good or light in weight. They only reissued a couple of Soap Bar models A 1954 which they mistakenly called 1958 Standard and the Les Paul Custom from 1954 which weighed a ton.
I also worked for a living in music since 1978 starting 6 nights a week playing Pop Disco in Minneapolis,Mn. So even though you may think I’m bragging. I’m stating facts about my life. I’ve played here in the Twin Cities and basically got out due to such crappy pay.
I also aged out for being hired for the local $$ gigs. A situation all musicians eventually face.
My point being not that I’m special or great. But I actually have time in the saddle before all of this Vintage Worship non factual based posts over at TGP and occasionally here by amateur guitarists who are not doing this as a job,even part time.Last edited by jads57; 10-10-2025 at 03:18 PM.
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Just the rantings of an old disheartened life as a working musician!
Just wanted to point out,vintage guitars or gear is not the Holy Grail to great tone.
It ultimately is the magician,not the wand!
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When a vintage wand is what inspires the magician, that vintage wand becomes the holy grail.
Originally Posted by jads57
I have known some fine pro musicians who swear by vintage guitars and vintage tube amps. Every player, pro or not, gets to decide what gear is best for them.
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And some of us swear at them at various times (especially vintage amps).
But to jads57's post, there is a undue level of worship for vintage gear (however that is defined) that basically boils down to "vintage = good, modern = crap." There are folks not afflicted by this, of course. Sometimes that equation is correct, sometimes vintage gear is crap and modern stuff is excellent. I suppose my 1981 Ibanez GB10 qualifies as vintage by now, and it's one of the best guitars I have ever played. I've got a 2 year old Tele partscaster which is also an excellent guitar and "better" than any vintage Tele I've played (but the comparison is not exhaustive).
And to SS's point- we do all get to pick what it is we like. The problem is when someone insists that what we like is "wrong," which happens on TGP all the time and only occasionally here.
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Just giving my experiences as both a working musician,and having experience using these tools. I think there is way too much misinformation since they have become so expensive and out of reach to actually try in person and assess for themselves.
And if people can’t have different sometimes opposing opinions,how does one get a realistic representation of what they are investing in?
And besides a few reputable dealers like Dave Rogers,Dave’s Guitar,Peter Wagoner at Lavonne Music, George Gruhn.
I think many are just interested in the profit angle. I‘m only giving my personal experience with no profit to made off their choice.
Anyway, I guess I get there are too many vitriolic posters, and sorry if that’s how my posts come off. But I was originally born in New York,Lol!Last edited by jads57; 10-10-2025 at 03:58 PM.
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Guitars you don't hear about anymore are gone. They did not stand the test of time. Just a quick example. Ovation Electric guitars never caught on despite the fact that Glen Campbell played them. Actually, I hate the acoustic ones too and would venture to say they are nothing special I find them disgusting. Therefore the guitars that have stood up are the ones real pros played serious hobby players.
I played all the guitars and really one has to find what works as SS says. Personally I never found a Fender to be something I could live with for any amount of time. They are however the ones made in the good era quite nice guitars. They will get a sound that really many have to have. In my case I simply will take a Lester over any electric guitar. I can make them smoke rock and roll ( not really) but they also with proper set up make a great bebop machine.
Take Gretsch Guitars made in 50's, 60's I suppose even the 70's, they have a particular sound many players like to have but to me they are put together like garbage. Necks are stuck in the body and you never know what you are getting into until you have to remove one. I have on a few occasions and the joints and neck pockets are terribly made. Vintage guitars are animals they need to be looked at from every angle and decide what you want to do for sound. The law of diminishing returns gets pretty quicky up when it comes to some guitars. A Norlin 175 may on the job do anything a 1956 175 would do but some want the 56.
A 335 typically what the guitar of the 70's and 80's to me. I don't see them out so much anymore but the various changes and configurations require you have to dig to get what you want. If I were a gigging musician who had to play everything to earn a living this is what might be need.
1. Les Paul
2 Some Strat or Tele
3. flattop Martin or similar
4. I jazz box maybe 175 or a 335.
That is all that is really required but one must if they really want to focus, have a dream set up. Most likely it will be a newer guitar that is based on an old standby. It may very well be the old standby in real life. Fill in the blanks of guitars and amp to use for your personal playing.
A vintage guitar that is less than what is currently available is just that.......not a good guitar. I don't fault anyone who wants a 50's strat of tele and pays the price. However, from my point of view you bought because it was a vintage king guitar. That said I can also say of all the modern archtop carved guitars and builders available now, I have never picked one up and said, " wow this sound like a 1930's Dangelico or L5." I am not saying better but simply different and frankly many guitar players could not tell you much the difference or even care.
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Well on acoustic instruments Archtops etc, they need to be played a lot to get them to open up. Old electrics sometimes had better quality wood that dried out as well as pickups aging.
But in fairness you can’t modify much on any vintage piece without taking depreciation. And believe me most of them need some work. From neck reset, planing the fingerboard,new frets, old pots or switches that are intermittent.
Now this is if you use it to make music,not to hand on the collection wall.
Archtops , I’ve had a chance to play several D’Angelico and a Jimmy D’ Aquisto which sounded amazing in the upper register
played several 1940’s,1950’s Gibson L-5 non cut cutaway, electric And actually owned a repaired 1973 Blonde L-5 CES. paid $450 in 1974 in New Orleans.
I ve also triedseveral new Luther’s models Bill Comins, Mark Campellone,Ted Megas, Steven Andersen, John Buscarino,Benedetto 17” with a floating pickup. The nicest sounding one was Buscarino Artisan model. I ended up with an Elferink Tone Master which is excellent and a steal of a deal..
Gretsch makes great Drums! Guitars are way different with many being total horrible construction. Not the new Japan nor Custom Shop models, the vintage originals,Lol!
Again a lot of this is just my likes and dislikes,and endlessly having G.A.S!(gear acquisition syndrome)
I think with very few exceptions it’s the Golden Age of gear for all of us.
Problem is, the paying gigs are fewer and not worth the $ for many of us.
Anyway love hearing from others experiences as well, Thanks!
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Not sure why you’d need both a Les Paul and a Strat/Tele but I think you’d also need a classical or hybrid nylon for bossa etc. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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I always thought older than 20yrs (or 20 or older?) is considered vintage, but maybe that's just cars? Originally Posted by Cunamara
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In most things 20 years is vintage and 100 years is antique. But, IIRC, in the world of guitars, 30 years is the magic number for vintage guitars. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Being born in 1957 (like you) and having grown up in Philly and NYC, I don't mind your posts and I actually find them of value. And having played thousands of paid gigs myself, I do think that those of us with bandstand experience have a lot of knowledge to share. But others may have a different experience which is equally valid. Originally Posted by jads57
I played a gig on Thursday and used a Mexican made Telecaster that is probably worth less than $500. People told me that I sounded great. I do own three genuine D'Angelicos, but I doubt anyone in the audience would have thought I sounded better on any of those. My amp was a 13 pound Henriksen Bud 6. Pretty easy to carry on my soon to be 68 year old shoulders.
If a cat wants to bring an 85 pound vintage Twin Reverb or use a 25K vintage Tele on his gig, good for him. We all have our own path to walk. Jads57, keep telling us your truth. Some of us do listen.
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The Vintage subforum is reserved for vintage geeks; the "Guitars In General" sub is the proper place to make your case.
I've owned, played and gigged with guitars built as early as 1946, have owned Gibsons made in every decade between 1952 and 2011. Many of the guitars I've owned would be considered vintage now, but I never paid a vintage premium for any of them; they were either new or just old, used guitars at the time. 100% of my current guitars were built in the first few years of this century and from my player's standpoint I wouldn't trade any of them with any vintage guitar.
Danny W.
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Danny W. You are a great example of a player who’s seen the advent of the Vintage Guitar market. As well as the tremendous improvements at Gibson in recent years. I think you also posted a pic with a vintage Fender Jazzmaster or Jaguar, early in your music career.
And while I understand the Collector value is more than its actual tool value. I feel it’s important to distinguish it from some mythical status assigned to most every vintage guitar.
And how they were not all great instruments as well.
As opposed to higher and lower end guitars nowadays being way more consistent and playable for a musician
I just find way too many people including well known players,buying into that narrative of Old Wood is always Superior
Other than the best of the old well made Gibsons or Fenders. I’ve found playing them as well as owning many of these so called guitars not without there faults.
And most pros have altered or modified these guitars to make them usable.
In fact just about every well know guitarist irrespective of musical genre, use newer replicas that have addressed the original shortcomings of many vintage guitars.
Especially since 1950’s guitars had noisy pickups,tiny frets, questionable neck angles,etc. lousy tuning keys, or bridges,etc.
In fact these guitars were designed with heavy gage mostly flat wound or Monel Strings in mind,even Fenders and Les Pauls,Lol!
Thanks for your thoughts in this thread, and as always love your harem of newer Gibson Archtops!
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Yeah, that sounds about right I guess. At least from my perspective. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
But it leads to some interesting things. I remember back in the 1980s people talking about what shit Gibson guitars were then; fast forward to the 20-teens and people talking about how great the "vintage" (meaning 80s) Gibsons were compared to the current Gibsons of that time. And so it goes.
The reality, of course, is that there are great and terrible guitars from every maker in every year.
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Truthfully, in the vintage community, vintage guitars are considered to be pre-1967. In other words, for Fender, pre-CBS. For Gibson, pre-Norlin. Mostly it refers to guitars made before the huge explosion following the Beatles etc. After that point, guitars were no longer made by small groups of well-trained builders. The shipping numbers went way up, the employee count went way up, the quality of many components changed, and in worst cases, went down. Bean counters took over.
Now we are in a bit of a golden age, guitars are made better than they were in the post-60's era. They are perfectly acceptable for any pro situation, if you get a good one. You can even assemble them yourself.
It's easy to get irritated at the vintage forums, but in reality, the vintage guitar world is its own thing. It is driven by folks who really care about the history and lore of the old guitars.. Though many people on the vintage forum play gigs, many don't. It's more about the history, and preservation.
I find that most complaints about vintage guitars are about the high cost, and whether they are worth it. In terms of guitars as professional tools, probably not. For those who love them, want to preserve them, have the money, and yes, prefer the sound and feel, yes they are worth it.
In my case , just like Jads, I wheeled and dealed (dealt!) and went through a bunch of vintage guitars. Unlike him, I kept a bunch of them and have used them for years on gigs, but mainly sessions. In the early days, you got these guitars because what was available off the shelf was trash. It took along time for the manufacturers to come around to quality again.
I'm glad and fortunate to have a small but useful collection that I assembled years ago for little cost. I probably wouldn't buy at today's prices, except for a few "grail" type things. But I don't see the point of going on that forum and talking about how inferior old guitars are. That's just not what that place is for.
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I have trouble seeing mid-90s guitars as “vintage”, at least as far price premium and perceived specialness go. I’m not sure there’s a magic number there. I think it’s more a combination of age and other factors (e.g., theories about better and worse years, features, scarcity of variants/models, etc.). Of course, I’m happy to wrong about this and sell and my ‘89 Strat for $10K … Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Thanks for the kind words. I have some photos of me with vintage guitars, as well as quite a few other vintage guitars I've owned. Some of the former: Originally Posted by jads57
(1967) Early '60s L-4C:
(1967) '65 Jaguar:
(1971) '60 Byrdland:
(1973) '68 Johnny Smith:
(1978) '71 ES-355TDSV:
Danny W.
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Our understanding of value is determined in part by our own lives. We tend to like material objects that were popular in the years immediately before we were born — beyond our memories but not so remote as to be inaccessible. We also like objects that were new when we were teenagers; objects we desired but could not own, because we were teenagers: cars, guitars, boats etc.
Many people, men especially, collect objects they could not have then, but can afford now. Ownership of such objects is a mark of success for these collectors. They have achieved more than they desired when they were young.
We also tend to believe the past was better than the present, despite all the evidence to the contrary. However, our nostalgia does not extend to things that really matter, like safety equipment.
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My point in starting this discussion is that there needs to be balance when discussing the attributes of old guitars,cars,furniture,etc
And again this is pertaining to their actual use as a musical tool,not an investment strategy perspective.
I came off arrogantly by telling my actual ownership and use of them for making a living over many years.
And again I traded gear my whole life since the age of 13,Lol!
Also remember these were not all that valuable in the ‘70’s and 80’s
This is important imo,because there tends to be an abuse of truth and legitimate discourse. Especially given the current over value given to these on these particular group of instruments.
I know this seems silly overall, but this is usually how things attain mythical status to further someone’s agenda.
And maybe there were a few actual great guitars,but it usually because of the Musician’s popularity and abilities.
So while there enough of us older musicians still alive, who actually owned and gigged these tools. It’s good to have the history spoken and for the actual record. That way someone who can not afford these guitars any longer, can have a balanced information to go by.
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To the extent that lore and myth masquerade as fact, forums tend to be problematic. For quite a few years I collected vintage fountain pens, and many forum members were convinced that utter BS was fact (in cases where the facts were actually available). They would fight to the death defending erroneous beliefs- not unlike most every other aspect of human life. It's just part of human nature to reject reality to preserve our erroneous beliefs. We all do it, just more or less rigidly and vociferously. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
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Great thread jads57.
I too have been around a while, and in that time, enjoyed many a guitar, and amplifier. Some I really miss, and some I don't.
I really miss my '63 Epiphone Riviera, made in Kalamazoo. It had all the same woods and the TONE of the early 60's Gibsons.
I sold it because I could no longer play on the narrow neck, as my skills developed. But whenever I can play an old Gibson, I am reminded of the feel of the Riviera. The wood, the wood!
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The funny thing is, you would assume in a hollow or semi hollow that the old wood has magic, but it seems to be true of Fender guitars as well. There's something about the old ones I have never found in the new ones. And they're just planks! I have a '50's telecaster that seems to be able to get any sound, everything from country to Stones to Julian Lage, it's all in there. Amazing for such a crude, simple design. It has it's quirks, all vintage guitars do, but I have yet to find all of those sounds in a new guitar, even though many of them are great guitars. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
But if you want to talk about the ones that I miss- my gosh: '60 ES345, '59 L5C, '68 L5CES, '68 LP Custom, '61 Custom Telecaster, early '60's L4C like Danny's, and don't get me started on the amps!
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I get it,just like worn jeans,or worn in shoes! But remember not all were great or wore well.
I have found many more good consistent reissues than I ever found with vintage ones. And again I’m strictly speaking as a musician who did this for a modest living.
Also who in their right mind would use even a $25k guitar for basically $50 gigs,unless you have unlimited funds.
It was bad enough having a $1400 invested in a guitar or amp,and gigging with them back in the late 70’s onwards.
I actually think even some newer low cost guitars are more in tune and playable with the advent of CNC machines,than many vintage guitars.Last edited by jads57; 10-12-2025 at 11:24 PM.
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