Electric guitar and singer amplification

[Gitterbug]

I'd be curious about your view of the following.

Conventional wisdom at one point was that a guitar amp wouldn't sound good for vocals and that a PA wouldn't sound good for guitar.

Was that ever true? Is it true now? If something changed, what was it?

Are you asking me? Haven't you consumed the lines with your experiments, and am I wrong in believing that you're happy with what you have ended up with? Hence, conventional wisdom disproved?

Maybe, just maybe, I have found another route to good guitar and vocal sound. While this is not (yet) backed by crowds of artists, there are vocalists (like NY jazz singer Cait Jones), singer-songwiters (like Finnish former jazz guitar teacher Ari Siikasaari) and several guitarists happy with the Metro 6.5FR II. Anybody want to chime in?

What the world, you and I are missing is a compact Class D amp head with two independently voiced channels and phantom XLR input for one. The Bud Head's properties at half the size, weight and price. Should be doable. I've proposed this to more than one amp maker. Zero response.

[Christian Miller]

100%. For now, my (suddenly very heavy seeming) AER is going nowhere.

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[rpjazzguitar]

Are you asking me? Haven't you consumed the lines with your experiments, and am I wrong in believing that you're happy with what you have ended up with? Hence, conventional wisdom disproved?

Maybe, just maybe, I have found another route to good guitar and vocal sound. While this is not (yet) backed by crowds of artists, there are vocalists (like NY jazz singer Cait Jones), singer-songwiters (like Finnish former jazz guitar teacher Ari Siikasaari) and several guitarists happy with the Metro 6.5FR II. Anybody want to chime in?

What the world, you and I are missing is a compact Class D amp head with two independently voiced channels and phantom XLR input for one. The Bud Head's properties at half the size, weight and price. Should be doable. I've proposed this to more than one amp maker. Zero response.

I've experiemented a fair amount, although really only a few units. I still don't understand the issues as well as I would like to and, yes, I am interested in your opinion.

Why, at one time, was going into a PA speaker considered to produce poor sound(if it was) and what, if anything, has changed?

To be clear, I'm not challenging the notion that one unit can be good for both voice and guitar. Quite the opposite. I'm getting good results for both voice and guitar with my JBL Eon One Compact. I'm now doing big band work with guitar>ME70>JBL and it's fine. And, I've been using it to monitor both vocals and guitar on gigs, with good results.

I don't find the guitar sound from the JBL to be harsh or glassy or whatever people used to say about guitar into PA.

[garybaldy]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a decent way to amplify electric guitar and microphone (phantom powered). I was thinking of one or two active speakers. Portability is important. I am using a little jazz now.
I will be performing with a singer, and would prefer one system for high quality amplification.

Thanks for your input.

I have never used a mic that requires phantom power. Are those mics considered to be of better quality?

[starjasmine]

If memory serves, a phantom-powered mic can provide better s/n over a longer cable run than a non-powered mic if everything else about the scenario is equal. Generalizing that all pp mics are better than non-powered ones is not necessarily true. PP mics are typically more expensive than their non-powered counterparts, tho, and are targeting an audience for which that extra expense is worth the benefits that phantom power provides.

[garybaldy]

If memory serves, a phantom-powered mic can provide better s/n over a longer cable run than a non-powered mic if everything else about the scenario is equal. Generalizing that all pp mics are better than non-powered ones is not necessarily true. PP mics are typically more expensive than their non-powered counterparts, tho, and are targeting an audience for which that extra expense is worth the benefits that phantom power provides.

Thanks. Out of curiosity, would a wireless mic give you the same n/s benefits as a pp'd mic with a long cable?

[John A.]

If memory serves, a phantom-powered mic can provide better s/n over a longer cable run than a non-powered mic if everything else about the scenario is equal. Generalizing that all pp mics are better than non-powered ones is not necessarily true. PP mics are typically more expensive than their non-powered counterparts, tho, and are targeting an audience for which that extra expense is worth the benefits that phantom power provides.

Typically, condenser mic’s require PP, (other than electret condensers) and dynamics mics don’t. There’s no such thing as an all else equal comparison between the two because they work fundamentally differently. I think you might be confusing balanced vs unbalanced connections with PP vs non-PP. Balanced connections suppress noise and work better over longer cable runs. They typically use XLR connectors, and so do condenser mics (the extra conductor carries the PP), but so do most dynamic mics (other the those designed to plug into high impedance 14” inputs).

Some condenser mics are better than some dynamic mics for some applications, and vice versa. Many better quality vocal mics are condensers, and so are many small format instrumental mics, which is why it makes sense to have PP in acoustic amps.

Thanks. Out of curiosity, would a wireless mic give you the same n/s benefits as a pp'd mic with a long cable?

PP is not the relevant factor. An unbalanced wired mic will have fidelity and noise issues with a long cable. The wireless version of that mic won’t, but wireless mics can have fidelity and noise problems of their own, and can have distance limitations.

[garybaldy]

Typically, condenser mic’s require PP, (other than electret condensers) and dynamics mics don’t. There’s no such thing as an all else equal comparison between the two because they work fundamentally differently. I think you might be confusing balanced vs unbalanced connections. Balanced connections suppress noise and work better over longer cable runs. They typically use XLR connectors, and so do condenser mics (the extra conductor carries the PP), but so do most dynamic mics.

Some condenser mics are better than some dynamic mics for some applications, and vice versa. Many better quality vocal mics are condensers, and so are many small format instrumental mics, which is why it makes sense to have PP in acoustic amps.

I'm still in the SM57/58 camp!!

[John A.]

I'm still in the SM57/58 camp!!

Which are excellent mics with balanced connections. Use as long a cable as you like.

[Woody Sound]

I recently settled into a Fishman Loudbox Performer, similar to the Artist mentioned before. It is bigger than the Bud and has a midrange speaker which sounds good for jazz guitar.

The Performer is awesome. A step up from the Artist in sound and size. But quite a bit heavier.

[chasranney]

Blackstar Sonnet 120

Access to this page has been denied

[Little Jay]

Plenty of options apparently!

Still, for portability I would recommend Henriksen The Bud 6 or AER Alpha. Both have phantom power as well.

[Alter]

Important issues are the budget, and mostly the required level of volume you want to achieve. Inside gigs anything can cut it, but at open spaces you might need more volume.

One hidden jewel is the Bugera Ac60, which is an Aer clone and a great value for money two channel acoustic amp. I've done countless gigs with one, many times connecting a mic on the second channel for vocals, a horn, violin, etc. I don't even bother to carry a Tonex one or electric amp sim pedal with it, i just plug direct. Very giggable at a fraction of the Aers cost.

Another solution is a powered speaker like the Boss S1 pro+ etc, if you like playing through FRFR speakers. I plan on a Hx stomp + Bose S1 pro+ rig if i get a chance to try the Bose first.

The Toob Fr ii can also do it, but you need a small mixer with reverb, and the volume will be a bit lower. The toobs are great in a pair for this, I use two with two Bam200 amps. You can also use one amp and slave the other speaker, but this way I have more volume and the luxury of having a backup amp.

And if overkill, the ultimate solution is a tower like the Bose L1 compact (Rcf etc..). There are options for every budget. Towers are heavier and cost more, but are on a different level, great sounding and they can do all sorts of bigger events, so if you play such gigs you'll make your money back.

[Woody Sound]

What the world, you and I are missing is a compact Class D amp head with two independently voiced channels and phantom XLR input for one. The Bud Head's properties at half the size, weight and price. Should be doable. I've proposed this to more than one amp maker. Zero response.

And a decent reverb. Not the metallic chorusy jangly kind on the DV Mark.