Eastman Jazz Elite 16-6 vs. AR503CE vs. AR480CE

[shekie]

As the title says, I'm trying to pull the trigger on one of these three, the only one I've been able to play is the ar503ce which I liked the size, neck and acoustic sound. I thought the sound plugged in was a little bit brighter than I would like. I texted back and forth with Lou Del Rosso at Guitars'N'Jazz who suggested the Jazz Elite 16. He said he helped design it and specifically designed it to be darker sounding than the typical Eastman. I'm also including for consideration the ar480ce Pisano model, an all laminate hollow body with the same Seth Lover pickup as the ar503ce. The pickup in the Jazz Elite is the Lollar Imperial humbucker.

For those who have tried and/or owned any of them, comments, suggestions, recommendations, based on my sense that the ar503ce might be too bright plugged in?

[nyc chaz]

I've played all three of those and i own the 480.I don't remember the Jazz Elite being that less bright.If you want a darker sounding Eastman you might look at either the 610 or Pisano 680.Both of them have mahogany back and sides which contribute to it being darker in sound.Both are also fully carved like the Jazz Elite and sound very nice both acoustically and plugged in.

[shekie]

I've played all three of those and i own the 480.I don't remember the Jazz Elite being that less bright.If you want a darker sounding Eastman you might look at either the 610 or Pisano 680.Both of them have mahogany back and sides which contribute to it being darker in sound.Both are also fully carved like the Jazz Elite and sound very nice both acoustically and plugged in.

Thanks for your reply. How do you like your ar480ce and what made you choose to purchase it?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

My 16” Jazz Elite (with TI flats and a set HW KA) has a fat, rich, amplified jazz tone and a beautiful, balanced acoustic sound that’s not bright by any stretch of the imagination. I think it has a “bigger” sound than the 503 or the 480. It’s also beautiful, with figured wood that’s artfully matched and just enough binding & trim to look elegant without being blingy. It’d be the clear choice for me. I’ve never had RW strings on it. But I strongly suspect that it’d sound a lot like a single P/U L-4CES with rounds both acoustically and amplified.

For perspective, I have 3 carved Eastmans archtops (14”, 16”, and 17”). The 17 has a KA floater and is the woodiest & brightest of the three. The 16” Elite has the most traditional carved ES sound both acoustically & amplified - and it’s more versatile sonically than the 17.

[Freddels]

I have the Pisano 680 and if you want to try it, I'm here in MA and could meet you halfway.

[nyc chaz]

Thanks for your reply. How do you like your ar480ce and what made you choose to purchase it?

The 480 is a definite best buy in the archtop world.I bought mine when it first came out and it is a great jazzbox.It is comfortable to play and looks beautiful to boot.They have gone up in price since i bought mine but is still more than reasonable for the quality guitar you get.Frank Vignola last year played the 480 all the time on his Birdland gig streamed on Youtube and he owns guitars way more expensive,yet he played the 480 every week so that tells you something.You should check out the video's and see if the 480 sound is what you like.The 480 is all laminate and sounds ok unplugged but if you like to play acoustcally,a fully carved 680 would be a better choice.

[shekie]

Sorry for not responding earlier, at the Lake George Jazz Festival this weekend. Thanks for all the helpful replies. I neglected to add one important detail, I play mostly rhythm guitar in a trio, mainly backing a female vocalist.
I am beginning to stick my toes in the water regarding playing some lead, but for now, it’s mostly rhythm. Does that move the recommendations towards the ar480ce?

[jads57]

Remember Eastmans were based on the Benedetto Archtop build book. And are less mid pronounced than say Gibsons or old Epiphones.
I believe this is due to thinner carved top and back plates.

From what I understand the Jazz Elite has thicker carved plates than all of their other models. This was done to get the older Archtop tone ,which I actually prefer overall.
While the JP 880 and 680 are excellent instruments,they are on the brighter side tonally speaking.

[Freddels]

Remember Eastmans were based on the Benedetto Archtop build book. And are less mid pronounced than say Gibsons or old Epiphones.
I believe this is due to thinner carved top and back plates.

From what I understand the Jazz Elite has thicker carved plates than all of their other models. This was done to get the older Archtop tone ,which I actually prefer overall.
While the JP 880 and 680 are excellent instruments,they are on the brighter side tonally speaking.

I don't find my Pisano 680 to be all that bright. I have it strung with TI flats.

[nyc chaz]

Remember Eastmans were based on the Benedetto Archtop build book. And are less mid pronounced than say Gibsons or old Epiphones.
I believe this is due to thinner carved top and back plates.

From what I understand the Jazz Elite has thicker carved plates than all of their other models. This was done to get the older Archtop tone ,which I actually prefer overall.
While the JP 880 and 680 are excellent instruments,they are on the brighter side tonally speaking.

The 680 has a mahogany back and side unlike maple for the 880. The 680 i played was definitely darker than other Eastmans.

[jads57]

I don’t think the 680 may be as bright as 880 maple version. But it still has a more modern scooped tone with less mids than say an L-4 CES Gibson. I’m not against the Pisano and had one some years back as well as several other Eastmans Archtops 810,805,803 etc.

They are really good guitars and I prefer them to Heritage Archtops overall. But the Gibson Archtops definitely have more pronounced mids acoustically due to thicker carved plates.
It really comes down to personal preference,and I think that’s why the Jazz Elite from Guitarsnjazz was created to offer a choice.

[2bornot2bop]

If I was in the market for a sweet sounding guitar in an Eastman, I’d do the same thing member Rob did to his AR503. Rob installed a Creamery pickup which completely checked all of my boxes!

[shekie]

If I was in the market for a sweet sounding guitar in an Eastman, I’d do the same thing member Rob did to his AR503. Rob installed a Creamery pickup which completely checked all of my boxes!

Wow! That sounds terrific. Wonder if it's a direct replacement with having to modify the guitar and if Creamery ships to the U.S. If the answer is yes to both and the price is reasonable, that might move me back toward purchasing the ar503ce and just replacing the pickup. Appreciate the suggestion!

[skykomishone]

I had a Pisano 680. It sounded and played great. I only sold it because I was able to exchange it for a year of music instruction from one of the best guitar players around, a friend, and he was a friend of John's and he loved the guitar. This was before Pisano left us. I like the Pisano 680's. I own an Eastman that Eastman gave John when they were hooking up. Beautiful guitar. It’s more 880ish. I prefer the 680 size. I'm small like Pisano, and it's more comfortable to play.

[Tal_175]

I am very intrigued by the Jazz Elite model if the rumors are true and they are built like Gibson's. I read somewhere that they are caved the same way as other spruce top Eastman's but with heavier bracing. I wonder what's the difference between thick carved top vs heavy bracing on thin carved top. Anybody?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I am very intrigued by the Jazz Elite model if the rumors are true and they are built like Gibson's. I read somewhere that they are caved the same way as other spruce top Eastman's but with heavier bracing. I wonder what's the difference between thick carved top vs heavy bracing on thin carved top. Anybody?

My 16” Jazz Elite definitely has a carved CES vibe to both acoustic and electric tones. My 810CE is much more in the Benedetto mode - brighter, woodier, and a bit more lively.

But I’m not sure what you mean by “built like Gibsons”. I think the quality is about the same. Structurally, Gibson tops got thicker over the years. But I don’t know how thick my JE’s top is. AFAIK, only the braces are heavier than other carved Eastmans. Assuming the top is as thin as the others, I suspect that any sonic differences would be more evident in the 17 than the 16.

[Tal_175]

My 16” Jazz Elite definitely has a carved CES vibe to both acoustic and electric tones. My 810CE is much more in the Benedetto mode - brighter, woodier, and a bit more lively.

This is also what I meant by "built like Gibson's" ie more like Gibson CES archtops rather than Benedetto style. I wasn't referring to the quality of the build.

Assuming the top is as thin as the others, I suspect that any sonic differences would be more evident in the 17 than the 16.

Do you mean "even more" evident in the 17 than 16 since you already find the 16 to be more CES-like than your other Eastman?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Do you mean "even more" evident in the 17 than 16 since you already find the 16 to be more CES-like than your other Eastman?

Yes

[skykomishone]

Rob does get a great sound!

[2bornot2bop]

Wow! That sounds terrific. Wonder if it's a direct replacement with having to modify the guitar and if Creamery ships to the U.S. If the answer is yes to both and the price is reasonable, that might move me back toward purchasing the ar503ce and just replacing the pickup. Appreciate the suggestion!

Direct replacement. Send Rob a PM.

and yes the dealer ships to the US.

[Gustavo Eiriz]

I wonder why Eastman does not an L-5 specs guitar. Solid wood as L-5 and set humbucker, 3/4 nut width as normal Eastmans but more resonant than Gibbys, i know! Gibson sounds great amplified cause it is a heavier build.
Anyway Eastman could do their take on it, more similar to a 70s o 60s L-5 with less wood. Would it sell? Imagine a price of 4000$.
Nothing is competing with L-5 except for Golden Eagles and luthier made guitars.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I wonder why Eastman does not an L-5 specs guitar. Solid wood as L-5 and set humbucker, 3/4 nut width as normal Eastmans but more resonant than Gibbys, i know! Gibson sounds great amplified cause it is a heavier build.
Anyway Eastman could do their take on it, more similar to a 70s o 60s L-5 with less wood. Would it sell? Imagine a price of 4000$.
Nothing is competing with L-5 except for Golden Eagles and luthier made guitars.

The 810CE is a 17” carved box with a set humbucker in a spruce top & maple body. It has a 25” scale and is between the JS and the L5 in thickness at 3 1/4”. The current MSRP is $4400. I love mine (a 2021 with a KA floater) and think they’re a very viable competitor.

[shekie]

Just an update, I ended up purchasing the AR480ce new. I was sorely tempted to order the Elite 16 but I wanted to save the roughly $900 difference for a good amplifier. I was also tempted by the AR503ce, then replacing the stock pickup with the Creamery Charlie Christian (which I may consider at some point for the AR480ce), but I really like the full laminate sound of the 480, the neck profile is perfect for my smallish hands and I also like having a slightly shorter scale length. I could live w/o the frog logo on the tailpiece and especially the shifting magnetic truss rod cover, but those are really my only petty complaints so far.

As for an amp, I own a Bud 6, which is fine for small gigs like senior centers, coffee houses and the like. My female vocalist loves how she sounds and as she uses a Neumann condenser, having phantom power built into the Bud is a nice bonus. But sometimes I would prefer more of a "Fenderish" sound for the guitar and the Bud 6 though crystal clear and detailed, seems to lack a bit of fullness I get when I have the opportunity at the music school I take lessons at, to plug into a tube Fender or their ancient Polytone Mini Brute. What do folks think of the Blues Jr. or the Tone Master Princeton Reverb? Surprisingly despite living in a large metropolitan area (near Boston), finding either to try out has been challenging. Any other amps to consider around the $1K price? Smaller and lighter would be preferable, I would like at least bass and treble controls if not more EQ, also reverb. I'm too old and dumb to take on the modeling amps, prefer a knob to a phone app etc.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

But sometimes I would prefer more of a "Fenderish" sound for the guitar and the Bud 6 though crystal clear and detailed, seems to lack a bit of fullness I get when I have the opportunity at the music school I take lessons at, to plug into a tube Fender or their ancient Polytone Mini Brute. What do folks think of the Blues Jr. or the Tone Master Princeton Reverb? Surprisingly despite living in a large metropolitan area (near Boston), finding either to try out has been challenging. Any other amps to consider around the $1K price? Smaller and lighter would be preferable, I would like at least bass and treble controls if not more EQ, also reverb. I'm too old and dumb to take on the modeling amps, prefer a knob to a phone app etc.

I'd check out a Quilter Aviator Cub. They list for $750 IIRC, and they meet all of your requirements - comprehensive EQ, tonal flexibility (Tweed, Blonde, and Black switchable voices), tube-like behavior & response, good reverb, light.

But your other practical option is an effect pedal to warm up your Bud. I use a Blu 6, and it's excellent for the kinds of gigs you describe. I don't think it lacks fullness, especially with my archtops. But if I wanted a bit more tube fat in my tone, I'd just use my ART Tube MP preamp into the Henriksen. Universal Audio makes a Max Preamp pedal that's an excellent tube preamp emulator and compressor - it sounds great, and it may well do exactly what you want. You could also stick something like a Jr Barnyard, a Joyo American, a 2 Notes Le Clean, or a Boss Deluxe pedal in front of it for your guitar - but to me none of them sounds or feels convincingly like any clean Fender tube amp.