-
Just some suggestions for you if you are considering buying a vintage amp for the first time. Based around my experiences. These are things aside from a general health checkup and tube pin receptacle cleaning and tightening which a tech will (hopefully) perform as a matter of routine
Be aware that some techs try to preserve OEM parts whether it's a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" or "let's keep this as original as possible" mindset. You should know your tech's general outlook with regard to that if you are seeking max reliability vs keeping it collectible. I'd bring it with a list of items you WANT serviced so even if they check out today, you aren't left with another trip to a tech to fix what isn't working when you are crunched for time between gigs. The old two-is-one-one-is-none rule should apply to all gear you find critical to getting a gig done.
1) New tubes throughout. You're looking at 250-300 bucks US for all new tubes in something like a Twin. A set of JJ power tubes will take you many years and hundreds and hundreds of gigs/rehearsals/studio sessions. Some of the tubes in it when purchased might still be working. Great, now you have spares and in the case of a two channel amp you have some spares IN the amp you can shift around if one of your critical preamp tubes goes microphonic at a show. No need to get crazy with expensive NOS or high end tubes. JJ's and EH make a good tube for a working musician.
2) Caps. If you want max reliability I would have the entire amp recapped, all of them. Not cheap but given enough time with the amp and you'll be taking the amp back to replace the ones you didn't change the first time. Ask me how I know this.
3. Cathode Bypass resistors. I would have these changed on my first trip though your average tech will dissuade you if they are functioning correctly when you bring them the amp. Reason I suggest it is because when they fail you can get phantom noises that comes and goes for a while. Now you are left trying to figure out what is happening with a mostly functioning amp. Is it a tube? Other component? At times it can even sound like a speaker taking a dump on you or a loose wire. A highly frustrating problem.
I also recommend changing them right away because when you need them changed in an emergency you now have a burn in time of 2 to 3 hours for the new resistors to settle in. Yes, it's a thing. Until you've reached that burn in time your amp is harsh, sterile, and it can't be dialed out, which will make for a shitty gig and these items have a way of going bad before that important date.
4. Re-flowing all solder joints. Especially in a combo where there is a lot of vibration happening. You can get crackling and hissing from poor connections or just a greater noise floor. 50-60 years of gigs shakes a lot of things loose inside and a loose solder joint can end your night early or just make a problem that can be hard to track down. With this I'd also suggest they tap around inside the amp and jiggle wires to assess any other shorts or components on the verge of failure. A good tech will do generally do some of this anyhow.
5. Other components. If they measure out of spec, you might want to replace them. Sometimes it can contribute to an amp's unique and special character, other times they drift further out of spec and you have problems. If I have a good tech I generally take their word on things like that rather than just fist-pound demanding they get replaced.
6. Power cable. A three prong for obvious reasons. A new cable is a good idea, and affordable, though not always a necessity. It's nice to add about 6 or 8 feet of power cable IME, often eliminating the need for extension cords so it's a matter of gigging convenience. Yes, I had the connections inside the amp fail at an important gig and I was left to borrow a less than ideal amp to finish the gig.
As you can see we are talking about some serious up front money on maintaining an old amp since most have either sat idle (read dried out caps) or just not been well maintained. I hope this was helpful, feel free to add your thoughts.
-
07-18-2025 09:06 PM
-
Possibly the best thing to do is buy a used tonex 1 and a cheap DI, and throw it in your gig bag. Having that backup goes a long way toward keeping the gremlins away, and not tempting the universe to smite you.
-
In addition to the things DawgBone mentioned, have the tube sockets tightened.
-
I am in the other school of thought that believes that the less you mess with a vintage tube amp the better (besides the three prong cable of course). Most of the older components are of far superior quality than anything new you can find, caps, tubes, reverb units, pots. I just have older amps inspected every few years, cause most of the potential issues are easy to see for a good tech. No problems so far, lots of gigs. I think this notion of changing everything started because techs make money that way, and is just repeating itself through the internet hearsay. But of course everyone decides on their own.
-
Yes, get vintage amps serviced/maintained by a recommended qualified amp repairer/tech, who knows vintage amps inside out.
Originally Posted by Alter
Beware, the vintage amp's 500+ voltage can easily kill you.
-
My contingency is cheap and cheerful. I use a 70s (may be early 80s) MM 65RP. Moderately old and perhaps not collectable. I take a Bad Monkey pedal to go into the PA. It has a mixer output. It can be used without the effect on. Originally Posted by vintagelove
-
Timely post: Just yesterday I did a gig with another guitarist who brought a mid-60s blackface Fender Pro Reverb. As he was setting up he said "I hope I don't blow another fuse." Huh?!?! I can understand obsessive tone-chasing, but as soon as I'm carting gear outside of my rehearsal space my #1 priority is reliability!
And then sure enough, about 45 minutes into the set, he blows the fuse!
Fourtunately he carried spares. Lots of spares. :smh:
-
The notion of changing everything for me started about the time I had changed everything to keep it reliable. My suggestions were based around a person who just wants their amp as bulletproof as possible right out of the gate without a bunch of unforeseen trips to the tech. Originally Posted by Alter
Those brown caps you find in the late 60's and 70's Fenders never were of super high quality.
"Lots of gigs". A hundred? Two hundred? Five hundred? A lot of gigs to me is 500 along with rehearsals and studio use.
-
Timely post for me, Dawgbone.
I have a converted 72 Dual Showman head that was turned into a blackfaced Twin by Rick at Vintage Sound Amps for someone else a few years back. I'm tired of lugging around a twin (which doesn't get a lot of use anyway) and am having a new original spec head cab built for it, in addition to a new matching 2 x 12 cab. I have other amps, including a Vintage Sound 35, an Allen Old Flame and a VHT/ Fryette 50ST, all dead silent and which have spoiled me.
I'm having my local amp guru run through the Twin head to eliminate the typical noise that starts to build up in old Fenders, but he seemed reluctant to offer much hope, short of a complete rebuild that he was reluctant to offer. For me, I'm happy to spend the money, if I can get a dead silent 85 watt blackface head in a cab I don't mind carting around. What components would make the biggest difference do you think, in chasing down that idling white noise in an otherwise functioning Twin?
-
I feel the same way. Buy once, cry once. Pay now, or pay more later plus headaches!!! That sounds like a worthwhile project you have there. Originally Posted by yebdox
Idling white noise?
I'd go after every cap. Most techs seem to just go after filter caps and forget about the rest with a general servicing but you probably have a bunch of those brown caps left in there. They get noisy. I would change all of those out with some good quality caps and then I'd have all the solder joints reflowed as well as taking a chop stick or bic pen and tapping components and jiggling wires while the amp is plugged in and idling. That's basically the procedure I went through with my tech.
I'd still go after the cathode bypass resistors also if you haven't already just because it was the worst experience to have to gig with a freshly installed set. Not a lot of time/money for the tech to do it so IMO worth preventing that headache.
-
Thanks for this Dawgbone. Great checklist to be aware of before finding service tech. My 68 twin is all original, w/ JBL's. Probably needs all of this and more, despite visually being near mint. Reverb channel eq knobs not working as they should, no reverb, loud tremolo tick, non grounded cord, occasionally would get shocked touching the amp(the last one was doozy, and it's subsequently been a cool vintage decorative stand for my Henriksen ever since)
Despite all this it sounds great even at lowish levels. (Channel one, input 2)and has some sentimental value.
The conundrum is the twins don't seem particularly valuable from a monetary perspective. A guess would be a cool G or so to get it up an running properly.
Lot of money for me, and I'm pretty happy with my Henriksen.
Does that ballpark estimate sound about right? Seems you're "the" twin player here, though I'm sure there's vast ftr experience at jgo.
Cheers
-
Before and after
-
700 bucks to maybe a grand depending on your tech's labor rate is probably a solid estimate between tubes, caps, and labor which is getting to be 75 bucks an hour or so in my area. My tech likes me because I put his work to the test all the time and because I am only bringing him easy to work on tube classics from me and others, lol. He wouldn't touch my old Gibson though. I don't blame him, it's a mess inside. Originally Posted by StoneWaller
SF Twins aren't worth a lot of money so bringing it up to like new spec is gonna be spending more than the potential for return. But, 60's Twins are 60's Twins and eventually will be seen as collectible. For me it was an affordable high quality vintage amp that I could get the basics serviced and then work from there but it would've been easier, and cheaper, to just knock it all out immediately. Ultimately I wound up with a couple of them since the 2nd Twin only cost me $500. I probably have a grand in tubes, caps, and service costs between the two of them but the past five years has seen prices go nuts so everything costs more now.
-
Not as critical in post 60s Fender amps, but the blue molded caps in blackface combos are a big part of the tone and rarely drift out of spec. If you're tech wants to replace those, find another tech. The old filter caps should be replaced immediately, they're ticking time bombs and could take out a transformer if they blow. The other caps/resistors aren't as critical and should be replaced if drifting.
I run NOS glass in all my amps and can count on two fingers the amount of times a tube has failed in 40 yrs of gigging, and that was a pre amp that went microphonic and old Mullard rectifier that died, those are almost impossible to wear out.
But I understand the cost of vintage tubes these days, I saw it coming and stocked up back in the day, I have a huge old RCA caddy loaded w them that'll outlive me.
The thing about NOS glass is they're so much better/more reliable than modern that if I had to buy tubes today I'd still buy NOS.
Now speakers are another thing.
I use factory Jensens in my Vibroluxes and Twins, BUT those cones don't last forever and once they hit 50-60 yrs you're playing w fire. When I bought my first blackface Twin 35 yrs ago it had a blown Jensen so I immediately had both speakers reconed including the good one because I knew sooner or later that one would blow on a gig and they've been great all these years.
Here's where the 'BUT' comes in.
That '67 Twin was in my drummer's van last week and I had a gig on the other side of the state so I brought another one along, a '66 w original Jensen/cones. It was outdoors w no PA and you guessed it, blew a speaker on the first set. I knew there was a good chance that would happen so once again I'll be sending both speakers for reconing this week. There are excellent modern speakers though, if I had no choice I'd probably be happy w a pair of Weber C12N equivalents.
-
A common cause of noise in old tube amps (especially crackly, sizzly, or steadier white noise) is heat degradation of carbon comp resistors (usually little brown ones with colored bands around them). Plate resistors in old Fenders are usually 100k, and the noisy ones are usually on the preamp tubes. While it’s apart, I replace all plate resistors.
Carbon comp resistors are no longer used. Top quality carbon film is a good replacement, but metal oxide (aka metal film) resistors are quieter and more durable.
-
You had the benefit of having $ to sink into it when NOS was still reasonable. No dice for me. That said I've never blown a JJ 6L6 in 800+ gigs, many of which were deep into the volume control. I had a couple V2 preamp tubes go microphonic but still worked well enough to last out the show or I was able to do a quick swap between V1 and V2 and get it back on line during set break. You have to have quite a neglected Twin for it to go fully non-operational at a gig. The only time that happened to me was with a power cable failure. Other than the power cable failure I can't see a preamp tube very quickly going microphonic at jazz combo volume levels unless you are a fusioneer. Originally Posted by wintermoon
For new 6L6 the Tung Sol 6L6GC-STR's are my new favorite. A few more bucks than the JJ's but punchy and loud. I was digging the JJ803s gold pins in the V2 but I got a post covid batch and they were all microphonic right out of the box so I quit using them. They are a long plate but I found it strange to get 200+ gigs from one only to have some brand new ones be essentially non functional out of the box.
-
I have been known to get my old tube Ampeg amps serviced every other few years. I use old AlNiCo JBL, Altec and E-V speakers. I have failed to blow any of them in the past 45 years.
Last edited by Hammertone; 07-20-2025 at 03:57 AM.
-
My 64 Reverberocket worked perfectly for about 35 years.
Then, it developed an intermittent problem that turned out to be hard to solve. Multiple visits to the tech, new tubes, new big caps (needed anyway) and the problem persisted.
Eventually, I discovered that the little wings on the RCA jack to the reverb tank input were too loose. 10 seconds with a needlenose plier fixed it. Simply pressing the jack in wasn't enough - I had done that.
I never had a problem with the original tubes. One of the replacement JJ's shattered. N=1, doesn't mean anything, but, otoh, it never happened to the original tubes.
-
Great post and just went through all this with a Victoria tweed super I’ve had collecting dust in my basement for a few years. It’s #14 Victoria ever made, seen a ton of miles, and might not qualify as vintage but def been thru it. I traded a PRS DGT for it straight up and felt I talked myself into a really bad deal.
until I went thru everything you mentioned plus putting in 2 celestion golds, thinking of that amp pissed me off. Now it’s one of the best amps I’ve ever played and I’m playing it constantly.
-
If someone is considering going the vintage amp route it might help them decide if it's worth it, and if so, what kind of actions they can take to eliminate the "amp at the shop AGAIN" headaches. You can limp a lot of old amps through quite a few gigs with minimal service in a lot of situations but it's also nice to have it in top working order right out of the gate if you can afford it. I wish I had known some of what I've posted here going in.... Originally Posted by spencer096
Congrats on the Victoria restoration to good health! Per google Victoria is 32 years old, so I'd say in terms of electronics it qualifies as vintage. Those are really nice amps and are def worth having repaired.
-
victorias are tremendous amps and very easy to service. I also have a Vicky verb w 50s NOS tubes that’s killer. Dr z also deserves mention even if he doesn’t make many jazz friendly amps…my guy said my Carmen ghia was a delight to work on. Originally Posted by DawgBone
speakers are another huge wormhole we could go down.
-
I have no love of old amps. Give me modern day class D amp and be done. I see it a lugging around weight and trouble. I would not even touch an old polytone even now.
-
Agreed, my main gigging amp for years was a Victoria low power tweed twin, it was great sounding and very reliable, and loud when you needed it! Also a very nice jazz amp, though no reverb. My rhythm guitar player had a Victoria 4 10 tweed batsman for a while. Those two together were quite a sound! Originally Posted by DawgBone
I still have vintage BFDR, AC15 and Marshall JTM45's. They are all built like tanks and were last serviced 8 years ago, when I relocated to Nocal. I wanted to have them looked at by my fantastic tech, though there was nothing wrong with them. I also have some newer amps, but I have a soft spot for the old ones. And yes, I often did gigs with them.Last edited by bluejaybill; 07-19-2025 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Additional Information
-
Thanks for the helpful response. About what I surmised for repair vs value. I'll probably leave her as room decor until I find a spare grand in the couch cushions. Originally Posted by DawgBone
-
Dawgbone,
Thank you for this timely and useful post! This is the kind of benefit that this community has to offer and I appreciate you offering up your wisdom unprompted. I also admire you for staying in the trenches and making it work. Kudos to you, your passion for all things musical shows through
Reply With Quote
Looking for a artchtop
Today, 01:09 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos