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Sorry, my friend - I don’t think they’ll ever be in serious demand again, let alone command more $ than they do now. There’ll always be a few collectors who either want every version ever made or want one of every Fender tube amp ever made. But either collection would take up a lot of space and cost a small fortune to restore. There won’t be many.
Originally Posted by DawgBone
Other than you and ‘moon, I don’t know of anybody without roadies who uses a Twin regularly. Collections of big tube amps are pretty much limited to rental outfits like SIR, studios, and venues with serious backlines. Wintermoon seems to have acquired a pile of them over the years, and Hammertone has an Ampeg trove. But most of my friends and fellow players got rid of them years ago. Up until about 12 years ago, I had multiple Twins, Boogies, a Vibrolux, a Princeton 2, a Vox Night Train, a Bassman 50 head with 2x12 cab, etc. I sold them all and only have 3 now (Twin, Princeton, and 2x10 Pro clone) because they were Jazzkritter’s.
You can’t give big stuff away. I posted 2 years ago about the shop that offered me a new Rivera 4x12 straight cab for $200 if I’d take it home right then. I’d have done it if it weren’t a few thousand miles from home. Original BF and SF Twins will get scarce because (as you point out), they almost all need serious rehab at a cost equal to their resale value. I redid JK’s amps myself when I got them. But I only did it to keep my friend’s memory alive and honor his love of jazz guitar and his equipment. I’d never have done that otherwise, and it cost me relatively little because I did the work myself. None of them will leave their home under our piano until I move to assisted living
Here’s the situation in a nutshell (yes, the inside now looks as good as the outside) …..
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07-20-2025 06:51 AM
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Can't say I disagree w most of this. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Sorry, my friend - I don’t think they’ll ever be in serious demand again, let alone command more $ than they do now. There’ll always be a few collectors who either want every version ever made or want one of every Fender tube amp ever made. But either collection would take up a lot of space and cost a small fortune to restore. There won’t be many.
Other than you and ‘moon, I don’t know of anybody without roadies who uses a Twin regularly. Collections of big tube amps are pretty much limited to rental outfits like SIR, studios, and venues with serious backlines. Wintermoon seems to have acquired a pile of them over the years, and Hammertone has an Ampeg trove. But most of my friends and fellow players got rid of them years ago. Up until about 12 years ago, I had multiple Twins, Boogies, a Vibrolux, a Princeton 2, a Vox Night Train, a Bassman 50 head with 2x12 cab, etc. I sold them all and only have 3 now (Twin, Princeton, and 2x10 Pro clone) because they were Jazzkritter’s.
You can’t give big stuff away. I posted 2 years ago about the shop that offered me a new Rivera 4x12 straight cab for $200 if I’d take it home right then. I’d have done it if it weren’t a few thousand miles from home. Original BF and SF Twins will get scarce because (as you point out), they almost all need serious rehab at a cost equal to their resale value. I redid JK’s amps myself when I got them. But I only did it to keep my friend’s memory alive and honor his love of jazz guitar and his equipment. I’d never have done that otherwise, and it cost me relatively little because I did the work myself. None of them will leave their home under our piano until I move to assisted living
Here’s the situation in a nutshell (yes, the inside now looks as good as the outside) …..
TR's are still one of the most used amps in backlines but I don't personally know a single person that gigs w anything bigger than a Deluxe anymore other than Pete Bernstein who still uses a Vibrolux for example.
Back in the day it was go big or go home, Twins and Pros were the favorite Fenders, you couldn't give anything smaller away.
Now it's completely flipped, I saw a clean BF Princeton Reverb sell for $6200 last week.
There will always be someone buying Twins for collections or maybe practice space use, but I'm not sure how many people will be buying them to use on gigs.
I get people all the time that are shocked I still haul them around, they think I'm nuts. I can understand that but those same people say "that thing sounds killer!"
I'm permanently hooked and I'll be using them until I physically can't.
Until then you can just call me TR, I've been called worse....Last edited by wintermoon; 07-20-2025 at 02:01 PM.
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...and you're sure that's because you use a Twin??? Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Well, I was going to add that but I just assumed it was common knowledge Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
...and you're sure that's because you use a Twin???
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Quite a few guys here still use Supers, probably due to the SRV influence. That's probably the most common big amp you see at shows though a couple other guys I know started showing up with Dumble clone heads a few years ago. Originally Posted by wintermoon
I'm thinking I would like to get a set of Eminence EM12n's which are neo EV type speakers and seem to really have a legit EV tone per a couple demos. At 6.6lbs each would bring a Twin into the 65lbs range. There are good reports on the eminence lil Texas neos also which are 4lbs each but they are more of a jensen style speaker I think. I guess the point is you can still take a classic Twin down into the 60lbs range, which is manageable and might make it worth it to a guy who likes the sound of a Twin reverb and wants to gig it.
I think my next amp venture is the high powered Tweed Twin. I got a chance to try the 57 RI handwired a couple months ago and it was amazing, more rich and buttery than the rather sparkly BF Twin and still 40 watts of power and 2x12 alnicos yeah boi. Might suit my playing style a little better since my technique is not always the cleanest and a Twin can be demanding in that regard. Google says 53lbs and it's quite compact....
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That doesn't surprise me, blues dudes are more die hard than jazz guys and Supers were almost always their amp of choice.
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I've had the Eminence "Lil Tonker" in 2 different amps, one Fender PR II and one Peavey Classic 30
It's a Neo mag speaker with a cross between American and British voices. It maintains the Fender sparkle but adds some body to it. A great speaker. Each amp had Celestion spkrs when I got them, and I'm sorry, I just don't like the tone of Celestions except that they do have a more "plump" attitude. Overall tho, it's just too much bass and lower mids.
Check out the Lil Tonker.
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I recently got a BF Super Reverb. To play at home in my basement. Three of the speakers are original, the other is an '80s Eminence. Glorious sound. I look forward to comparing it with my BF Deluxe Reverb, which is in the shop. The Super price was less than half of what I could easily get for the DR. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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A good deluxe is pretty sweet but I'm still gonna put my money on you liking the Super better! Please come back and let me know your thoughts when you get the chance to give it a thorough comparison. Originally Posted by Phil59
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I'd skip most of the list till an actual failure. The only thing I've had conk out is the off on power switch on my SF Twin.
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Hope is a lousy plan. There's no feeling quite like having to abandon a gig in the middle because of an equipment failure. If it happens early, you probably won't get paid and you'll be remembered negatively (even if it absolutely wasn't your fault). Just stopping a show for a broken string interrupts the flow and detracts from the appearance of professionalism. Dead air is a groove killer. Originally Posted by Cavalier
The costs of preventive maintenance and redundancy are just two of the many costs of doing business as a musician. Carrying spares is also mandatory. I have a second guitar (small solid body) and a parts & repair kit (including fuses) in my trunk, a small amp head in my gear bag, and doubles of all cables etc.
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It's not hope sport but experience and economics. I always have a nice Yamaha for a spare so no more than the time to turn it on lost.
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Often enough, there's a PA, or a keyboard amp that I know I can use if my amp conks out. If there isn't, I carry a spare. I am unenthused about carrying spares because of security concerns. I don't care to leave gear in the trunk or someplace in the venue I can't monitor adequately.
I don't usually carry a spare guitar for that reason. I have had a guitar conk out only once. Tightening the output jack on my Yamaha cheapie apparently twirled the output wire and eventually pulled it off of the pot. Now I carry the necessary screwdrivers and soldering kit, which, so far, I haven't needed.
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I should clarify to make this post friendly.
Add the on off switches to your service list.
I have a 2 nd amp anyway as I use it for the effects. If one goes I just use both channels of the other.
I haven't had a amp go on a gig yet. Replace anything marginal for routine maintenance and use good speakers.
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I suppose a fully refurbed amp could let one down at a gig. Some gigs I do, I take a British Sessionette 75 SS as a spare. It definitely cuts the mustard. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Last edited by garybaldy; 07-21-2025 at 01:59 PM.
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I did a wedding gig a few years ago on a converted barge done out like a dingy night club, no windows in the bowels! ( odd but popular place for a Wedding reception). I was on db. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
The band leader had pi$$ed off the guitar player who then didn't check his gear. When the bride and groom came down the steps we had to start immediately. The guitarist attempted to plug in his guitar and the socket disappeared into the cavity (solid body Tokai). So all we had was drums, bass and sax. We did a second number as he tried to tease it back out but with no luck in such a dark room. I had a £1 screwdriver set in my car so it was decided we had to stop and both of us, now off the boat, worked on the guitar to retrieve it. It was a nightmare but we still got paid.
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I stated earlier that you can limp a lot of amps through quite a few gigs with minimal maintenance esp in a lower volume atmosphere where the amp isn't required to work as hard. Originally Posted by Cavalier
I guess it should be noted that my recommendations were geared around max reliability under hard operating conditions i.e very loud and in the summer heat.
That's my experience, and def economics since I could not afford to go through every item on my list right out of the gate. In the end I wound up doing all those things to both Twins as well as running a reinforcement strip across the top of the speaker baffles since if the baffle is old, and/or you have heavy speakers, the baffle tends to bend inwards and was rubbing the bottom of the amp chassis, and creating phantom noises. I had to replace the MDF baffle on my 69, the JBL's broke it in two.
The amount of vibration the guts on a cranked Twin are enduring is why a jazzer can get away with caps and components that have a questionable life span and I can't.
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I recently paid ~ $775 to get my '91 Boogie Mk IVa combo fixed up, with tubes, caps, and whatever else. It sounds amazing now, and I'm happy I did it. Originally Posted by DawgBone
But, I have a 50Watt 'drip edge' Fender Bassman head that needs the most work. A friend of mine who repairs foreclosed on houses found the head in a basement and gave it to me. It had no tubes, looked like it was ridden hard and put away wet, and was clearly modified. The 2nd input on both channels had been changed to pots, and someone who saw a pic of it told me it was likely a 'Marshall mod'. I've been considering getting it overhauled and back up and running for two years, but you can find used examples in the $400-$500 range and it mat cost considerably more to get the work done. If I do get it sorted, I'll ask for before and after pics from my amp guy though.
https://jim777.com/images/amps/bassman_69.jpg
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That's all in how you look at it. Preventable failure of a simple resistor can avoid destruction of other components in the circuit when it lets go. Heat does bad things to resistors, caps, wires, insulation, boards, etc. Oxygen causes slow long term deterioration of solder joints and metal surfaces subject to oxidation. Vibration loosens things that carry or conduct electricity and that should not touch other things that do the same. Originally Posted by Cavalier
Backup pieces are great, and I've always carried them. But thorough maintenance greatly reduces the probability of any failure. Saving the cost of finding and replacing marginal components will only result in far more expense when something blows and takes more parts with it. It's cheaper to do it right than it is to do it again and have to fix avoidable consequential damage.
Trusting luck is as bad a plan as clinging to hope.
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yeah, those old baffles aren't the greatest. I've had to fill torn out screw holes w/epoxy and the one on my '67 Twin is cracked but hanging in there. the problem is once you cut 2 huge holes in them there's very little material left to support the weight of the C12NA's I use let alone heavy speakers like JBLs or EV's. I'll eventually get a birch baffle to replace it. if they were made of what we call modern MDF they'd probably never break but the old ones are cheap particle board. If you're going to lay your amp down in your vehicle instead of upright to transport it lay it on it's face so all the weight isn't pulling down on the baffle. Originally Posted by DawgBone
The last few years I've been clipping a small fan on the back panel aimed at the power tubes, so it's been keeping things cool, as we know heat is the enemy of electronic components. Before at the end of a gig the top of the amp above the tubes was hot, now it's cool. It extends the life of the tubes as well.
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The fan is a good idea, I need to pick one up myself. I've been slacking there. Originally Posted by wintermoon
I learned the hard way. I always tossed the amp onto it's back in my truck. One day I heard a "clunk-clunk". Huh, must have a loose speaker. Nope, the whole baffle was toast. The mojotone replacement baffles are good. In fact my 72 had a replacement mojotone cab when I got it. The only junk part about it is the handle. It cracked up in short order meanwhile my '69 looks factory fresh and is supple in the hand.
I still put a reinforcement strip in there cause heavy speakers were warping it and it was vibrating against the chassis at volume. You could see the spot on the chassis that was rubbed down. You can just fit a 1" (or thereabout) strip across the top in front of the transformer and reinforce it so that's what I did. I have 44lbs of eminence pf350's hanging on that puppy right now but damn, that amp is almost unmovable, lol.
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I put a computer fan on the back of my VR. It's a 12VDC fan, so I used on old wall wart that plugs into the extra AC outlet on the back of the amp, with the output wires soldered to the fan. Works fine, almost no noise.
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I replaced the mdf with 3/4" marine plywood way back when I converted to 115 on the speaker. So I don't trust to luck or patches but also don't fix things that aren't broken. No luck there just inspection, cleaning and observation. That twin runs with fire breathing metal guitarists, double bass drums and has survived full throttle opening sets for bands like Blue Oyster Cult, Robin Trower, Night Ranger etc ...
The price of a full on rebuild after a complete melt down is still better than the full service 10-20 years before it is needed since those years will have passed without the cost and it will be ahead of the replacement component lifespan by the extra time it has lasted.
Obviously we all run with what we are comfortable with, I do use new tubes and off on switches.
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I use Rotron Whisper Fans - they're silent and reliable. I put one in my original pre-Mark 1 Boogie mounted horizontally on an angle bracket on the inside of the power tube side panel, blowing upward on the tubes & chassis. In other amps, I screwed it to the inside edge of the upper back panel so it blew horizontally on the tubes. Originally Posted by sgosnell
But the “right” way to do this is probably to cut a hole in the power tube side of the cabinet, mount the fan flat against the inside wall, and put a grille in the hole. I did this once to a Twin, and it looked great. But it’s a lot of work & it’s easy to screw up the Tolex.
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I must have the particular Princeton for about ten years now, probably one two gigs per week average for a few months a year, so maybe 300 gigs. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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