Need advice on Gibson L-5 pots and cap

[Chi]

Update: The plot thickens...

From Gibson just now:

We generally use Long shaft for Archtop guitars and I can't see this guitar being any different.
I believe the pots would have been CTS with the following-
Volume 300k Linear
Tone 500k audio
Our capacitors are 0.22 we use various sources and don't publicize specific ones apart from some specific circumstances.

Not so sure about the 'long shaft' suggestion.. we already tried a medium shaft and even that was too tall.

Below is my Murphy Labs 335 with a short shaft.. looks better and is much more naturally comfortable for the hand.
Maybe they are thinking of the regular CES model with twin pickups as it has a thicker top.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Update: The plot thickens...

From Gibson just now:

We generally use Long shaft for Archtop guitars and I can't see this guitar being any different.
I believe the pots would have been CTS with the following-
Volume 300k Linear
Tone 500k audio
Our capacitors are 0.22 we use various sources and don't publicize specific ones apart from some specific circumstances.

Not so sure about the 'long shaft' suggestion.. we already tried a medium shaft and even that was too tall.

Below is my Murphy Labs 335 with a short shaft.. looks better and is much more naturally comfortable for the hand.
Maybe they are thinking of the regular CES model with twin pickups as it has a thicker top.

I don’t think that’s correct. Long shaft pots have longer threaded portions so that the top threads protrude from the guitar’s top enough to hold a nut over a washer. They’re for very thick tops like LPs. Even on my LP, I used nuts on the shafts under the top to drop the pots into the body a bit. Otherwise, several thread turns protruded and the knobs stuck out.

Even on my Ibanez AF207, which has a thicker top than any Gibson archtop ever made, the pots are short shaft.

[garybaldy]

I don’t think that’s correct. Long shaft pots have longer threaded portions so that the top threads protrude from the guitar’s top enough to hold a nut over a washer. They’re for very thick tops like LPs. Even on my LP, I used nuts on the shafts under the top to drop the pots into the body a bit. Otherwise, several thread turns protruded and the knobs stuck out.

Even on my Ibanez AF207, which has a thicker top than any Gibson archtop ever made, the pots are short shaft.

I would assume a Les Paul has a different thickness depending on which pot it is. I guess the same shaft would be chosen for all four thus requiring at least 2 nuts underneath where the top is thinnest. So if you are using 2, one could argue that you might just as well use 4 - dependent on the cavity depth.
A little more fiddly on an archtop as you would need to get the bottom nut right first time!!

[Chi]

I don’t think that’s correct. Long shaft pots have longer threaded portions so that the top threads protrude from the guitar’s top enough to hold a nut over a washer. They’re for very thick tops like LPs. Even on my LP, I used nuts on the shafts under the top to drop the pots into the body a bit. Otherwise, several thread turns protruded and the knobs stuck out.

Even on my Ibanez AF207, which has a thicker top than any Gibson archtop ever made, the pots are short shaft.

I think you maybe right mate... every time I ask Gibson about something I get a different completely conflicting answer depending on who is manning the emails that day and what country you write to.

I also get responses from Gibson tech people saying: 'Sorry we can not help you as we just don't know'

And then I ask people that actually own and play and repair these guitars that have had the guts out in dozens of them and I start to get very useful and correct answers.

That's why I'm here.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

A little more fiddly on an archtop as you would need to get the bottom nut right first time!!

….or die trying

[Jimmy Mack]

I have surmised that I shouldn't believe everything Gibson tells me. I've had to change pots on two expensive Gibsons: one because they were faulty and of whimsical values upon testing, and one because the guitar's tone was not clear enough for good tone.
My new (2023) Gibson 335, has pot shafts that allow the knobs to sit beautifully close to the top. I'm not sure of the value.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I would assume a Les Paul has a different thickness depending on which pot it is. I guess the same shaft would be chosen for all four thus requiring at least 2 nuts underneath where the top is thinnest. So if you are using 2, one could argue that you might just as well use 4 - dependent on the cavity depth.
A little more fiddly on an archtop as you would need to get the bottom nut right first time!!

All the pots on every LP I've opened up have been the same length. The entire outer shaft is threaded. So you only need one nut underneath the top because you can adjust its position along the shaft. Unless there's not enough clearance, I always use a washer between a nut (or the top of the part being secured, if there's not enough shaft length for a nut and a washer) and the surface it abuts. If there's room, I use a star lock washer between the flat washer and the nut, to keep the assembly tight without making it too tight.

For ordinary pots, cavity depth is a consideration in solid bodies and thin semis. But it's not a problem on even a 2 1/2" deep archtop, except where there's no large pickup opening to get it inside. OTOH, some switched and ganged pots can be long enough to cause problems in thinner archtops.

[Chi]

Now we're talking... how refreshing to see decent soldering for a change. Better than anything Gibson has done for me by a mile.

[Little Jay]

That looks very well: very tidy and neat.

Just curious to see what’s inside that bumblebee…… but maybe we shouldn’t open that can of worms anymore. It looks great and authentic (or actually better than authentic), that’s for sure! Enjoy!

[garybaldy]

Would this work just as well as I am in the UK..

PRE-WIRED GUITAR WIRING HARNESS | 50S LES PAUL JUNIOR KIT | RIGHT HANDED

Pre-Wired Guitar wiring harness | 50s Les Paul Junior kit | Right Hand – James' Home of Tone

- 2x CTS '450' Series +/-10% Tolerance audio taper short shaft pots - 500k split shaft
- 1x .022uF 'Yellow Mustard' type tone capacitor
- 1x Pure Tone multi contact jack socket (nickel finish)
- Gavitt USA made Braided 22AWG wire
- Soldered using R-Tech Premium Lead-Free (Sn95.5Ag3.9Cu0.6) 22swg Solder wire
RoHS Compliant
- For optional ground wire - Gavitt 22awg black cloth covered wire

Attachment 124272

Is there any merit in the multi contact jack socket?

[Chi]

That looks very well: very tidy and neat.

Just curious to see what’s inside that bumblebee…… but maybe we shouldn’t open that can of worms anymore. It looks great and authentic (or actually better than authentic), that’s for sure! Enjoy!

Honey of course! It's the real thing. Or maybe just paper and oil.

[Chi]

Is there any merit in the multi contact jack socket?

Aparently not.. they grip your cable jack real hard.. maybe too hard for some. So we used a standard jack socket instead. If the cable
ever got snagged I'd rather it pull out than yank the guitar out of my hands.

[Little Jay]

Honey of course! It's the real thing. Or maybe just paper and oil.

;-)

I especially like the use of shrink tube, look really neat.

[garybaldy]

Aparently not.. they grip your cable jack real hard.. maybe too hard for some. So we used a standard jack socket instead. If the cable
ever got snagged I'd rather it pull out than yank the guitar out of my hands.

I have some Planet Waves cables with the compression rings on the plugs. I thought they were a good idea at the time but they can be a PITA. I don't like locking jack sockets either!! Oh! and not fussy on silent jacks either except on my wireless (key fob) transmitter.

[Chi]

I have some Planet Waves cables with the compression rings on the plugs. I thought they were a good idea at the time but they can be a PITA. I don't like locking jack sockets either!! Oh! and not fussy on silent jacks either except on my wireless (key fob) transmitter.

All my cables are custom made Mogami Platimum (nice and thick) and they told me to avoid the silent jacks as they fail a lot apparently.

[Little Jay]

Maybe this is interesting to share here:

The wiring and pickup I installed in my ES-125 (that formum member Sam Sherry kindly sold me for a very very reasonable price):



I really love how the pots react. It is wired “50ies style” so volume and tone are very interactive: turning down tone also lowers the volume. Volume does not alter tone so much.




I tried to recreate that in my DIY ES-330/Casino built, but to no prevail: I found out that standard modern log pots react very differently because they don’t have the same “log-taper” as vintage pots.

Here’s the wiring that I did for my 330 built:



I ended up redoing that “modern” style and added treble bleeds on the volume pots and I now it reacts much more like the 50ies wiring of my ES-125 (just not as much volume change when you change the tone).

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

All my cables are custom made Mogami Platimum (nice and thick) and they told me to avoid the silent jacks as they fail a lot apparently.

As an aside, don't be fooled by the thicker-sounds-better hype. Mogami 3368 cable is 0.315" in diameter and has a capacitance of 70pF / meter. George L's thin cable (which I love) is exactly half as thick and is 66 pF / meter, which is among the lowest of any cable regardless of cost or diameter. They do not roll off the highs at all, and the longest one I have is 20'. Mogami cables sound just as good, but they sell thickness as an asset in itself, and I don't think it is. I"ve never had a 155 thou George L cable fail mechanically either. Thicker cables also seem to abrade more easily, get cuts in the covering when caught in a drawer etc, and snag in places the thin ones don't.

I played on what has to be the electrically noisiest stage in America for many years. In addition to multiple banks of overhead stage lights, there's a cell tower right outside the window in the side stage wall, and Amtrak regional rail lines run along that wall with their 25,000 V overhead power lines. George L's cable has been the most resistant of any I tried to RFI etc.

[Chi]

As an aside, don't be fooled by the thicker-sounds-better hype. Mogami 3368 cable is 0.315" in diameter and has a capacitance of 70pF / meter. George L's thin cable (which I love) is exactly half as thick and is 66 pF / meter, which is among the lowest of any cable regardless of cost or diameter. They do not roll off the highs at all, and the longest one I have is 20'. Mogami cables sound just as good, but they sell thickness as an asset in itself, and I don't think it is. I"ve never had a 155 thou George L cable fail mechanically either. Thicker cables also seem to abrade more easily, get cuts in the covering when caught in a drawer etc, and snag in places the thin ones don't.

I played on what has to be the electrically noisiest stage in America for many years. In addition to multiple banks of overhead stage lights, there's a cell tower right outside the window in the side stage wall, and Amtrak regional rail lines run along that wall with their 25,000 V overhead power lines. George L's cable has been the most resistant of any I tried to RFI etc.

Actually funny you say that, I've tried a ton of different cables from many of the major brands and the different Mogami cables of various thicknesses or gauges and I found the thicker ones give me the best and purest uncoloured tone from what ever pickups I'm using. Same thing with my bass guitars. I get a good, clean, clear and strong tone from them. At home I'm always noodling long hours beside my amps in a very comfortable four-wheeled office chair and often when I move backwards or roll about the chair wheels with my full weight occasionally roll over my cables so I need something a bit tough that's not going to crush or damage so easily.
The only downside to the thick cables are is that when brand new they can be a bit stiff and coil up like a snake and re-loop themselves when you don't want them to.

So when I get them I hang them up full length on a hook for a week or two and manipulate and massage all the bends and curves out of them till they are dead straight. Now when they lay on the floor between the guitar and amp they no longer self-coil.
Even all the cables between my effects pedal board and the amps are all the same Mogami fat boys. (I'm a bit OCD like that)

The Mogami 'no questions asked' lifetime warranty is an added bonus.

[Chi]

Can you hear the difference?

Capacitors Shootout! Vitamin Q vs. Bumblebees

[stevo58]

Maybe this is interesting to share here:

The wiring and pickup I installed in my ES-125 (that formum member Sam Sherry kindly sold me for a very very reasonable price):



I really love how the pots react. It is wired “50ies style” so volume and tone are very interactive: turning down tone also lowers the volume. Volume does not alter

Note that those are sealed pots; which in my opinion are an excellent idea in any guitar with holes in the top.

[BBGuitar]

I have worked for 39 years in repair of high end electronics, industrial not musical.

The only place I have seen where anything is soldered to the case of a pot is in musical equipment.
This was considered bad practice.
It stresses the pot internals if not done very quickly at high heat.
It makes the pot difficult to replace or service.
It serves no useful purpose.

In the shop where I worked spray cleaners were not allowed. If a pot was scratchy, it was replaced or dissembled (if possible) cleaned and lubed.

When I did work (on my own) on musical equipment and needed to replace a pot I would add a ground lug under the shaft nut and solder to that.

[Stringswinger]

Can you hear the difference?

Capacitors Shootout! Vitamin Q vs. Bumblebees

I cannot hear the difference. Can any of you guys?

[garybaldy]

I have worked for 39 years in repair of high end electronics, industrial not musical.

The only place I have seen where anything is soldered to the case of a pot is in musical equipment.
This was considered bad practice.
It stresses the pot internals if not done very quickly at high heat.
It makes the pot difficult to replace or service.
It serves no useful purpose.

In the shop where I worked spray cleaners were not allowed. If a pot was scratchy, it was replaced or dissembled (if possible) cleaned and lubed.

When I did work (on my own) on musical equipment and needed to replace a pot I would add a ground lug under the shaft nut and solder to that.

This is a very interesing post.

[BBGuitar]

Can you hear the difference?

Capacitors Shootout! Vitamin Q vs. Bumblebees

If anyone can hear the difference, it is purely imaginary.

Unless one is defective.

[GuyBoden]

I have worked for 39 years in repair of high end electronics, industrial not musical.

The only place I have seen where anything is soldered to the case of a pot is in musical equipment.
This was considered bad practice.
It stresses the pot internals if not done very quickly at high heat.
It makes the pot difficult to replace or service.
It serves no useful purpose.

In the shop where I worked spray cleaners were not allowed. If a pot was scratchy, it was replaced or dissembled (if possible) cleaned and lubed.

When I did work (on my own) on musical equipment and needed to replace a pot I would add a ground lug under the shaft nut and solder to that.

This is a very interesting post.

Yes, this is very interesting and possibly an easier solution to grounding the pot.