Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin comparisons

[thirdspace]

Hello

I am looking at either a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin P90 (no cutaway, single P90) or a Kingpin II HB (2 humbuckers, with cutaway). Sound (of the P90 model anyway), size, neck profile, price all meet my criteria.

They seem difficult to pin down in the same place here in the UK so comparison side by side impossible. I am reliably informed that the P90 has quite a good acoustic tone (for price etc) and acceptable amplified 'jazz' tone and I like what I hear on YT, but would prefer a cutaway and the hum resistance of the HB is a bonus. Is the HB model significantly compromised in acoustic tone and amplified tone to avoid that model? Given the 2 pickups (presumably restricting the resonance of the top) and the cutaway. If it existed my preference would likely be a single P90 with cutaway - but Godin don't make one. I realise it's bit of a long shot but if anyone has experience to share that would be great - many thanks

[James W]

This might help -

I can vouch for the Kingpin ii P90, which I have, it's a very nice guitar.

[John A.]

Hello

I am looking at either a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin P90 (no cutaway, single P90) or a Kingpin II HB (2 humbuckers, with cutaway). Sound (of the P90 model anyway), size, neck profile, price all meet my criteria.

They seem difficult to pin down in the same place here in the UK so comparison side by side impossible. I am reliably informed that the P90 has quite a good acoustic tone (for price etc) and acceptable amplified 'jazz' tone and I like what I hear on YT

I would reverse that - excellent electric sound irrespective of price; acceptable acoustic tone for some purposes. It's surprisingly good sounding unplugged for a laminated top guitar with an installed pickup. Great for practicing unplugged quiet-ishly, but not loud enough to function as an acoustic guitar for typical acoustic guitar purposes.

but would prefer a cutaway and the hum resistance of the HB is a bonus. Is the HB model significantly compromised in acoustic tone and amplified tone to avoid that model? Given the 2 pickups (presumably restricting the resonance of the top) and the cutaway.

The acoustic sound of of the 2x P90 version is not a lot different from the 1 pickup version. With both of these, the top does not have big holes cut into it for the pickups to sit below the surface of the top. Instead, the pickups sit above the top on spacers. There are only small holes for the pickup wires and the screws for attaching the spacers, leaving the top almost intact. The 2 HB version is different -- it has big holes routed, and the pickups are mounted in these holes the way they are on most other set-pickup archtops. It's much more compromised acoustically than the two P90 versions. [/quote]

If it existed my preference would likely be a single P90 with cutaway - but Godin don't make one. I realise it's bit of a long shot but if anyone has experience to share that would be great - many thanks

The lack of a cutaway on the Kingpin makes a lot less difference than with other guitar designs. The fingerboard extension is further above the top than it is on most other archtops. As a result, access to the upper frets is pretty close to what you get with a cutaway.

FWIW, I had the 1 pickup version for a few years, have played the 2xP90 version at length several times, and have tried the 2xHB in a shop briefly. Purely as an electric guitar, I think the 2xP90 is the best (IMO, sounds better than the 2xHB). But as a sort-of acoustic, the 1xP90 is a little better. It's a very cool little guitar. If you really must have a cutaway and a HB, along with a decent-ish unplugged sound that's kind on an endless topic. There are a lot of guitars that do this, but they're all more expensive than the 1xP90 Godin.

[dconeill]

There was a variant of the 5th Avenue called IIRC the "5th Avenue Kingpin Composer" that had a cutaway and a single routed-in humbucker. It was only available for a couple of years and was discontinued. Maybe one will turn up used somewhere.

[MikeTT]

I had one for about a year. For my taste this model works better with a p90, but the original PU wasn't very good on mine.
I replaced it with a hum-canceling P90 from Fralin, and this combo was great.
(Another one of those "shouldn't have sold it...")

[Fusionshred]

The 2 HB version is different -- it has big holes routed, and the pickups are mounted in these holes the way they are on most other set-pickup archtops. It's much more compromised acoustically than the two P90 versions.

Actually, the HB design is very similar, with humbuckers “floating” above the top rather than sitting “in” it in routed holes.

[dconeill]

Actually, the HB design is very similar, with humbuckers “floating” above the top rather than sitting “in” it in routed holes.

Not sure I believe this. Is there a photo with the HB pickup dismounted from the top, showing the mounting arrangement?

[Little Jay]

Not sure I believe this. Is there a photo with the HB pickup dismounted from the top, showing the mounting arrangement?

I know the Godin P90s are 'floating' but I also doubt the fullsize humbuckers are...

48482-godin-fifth-avenue-kingpin-blonde-20171212_101427-jpg (900×506)

[dconeill]

I know the Godin P90s are 'floating' but I also doubt the fullsize humbuckers are...

48482-godin-fifth-avenue-kingpin-blonde-20171212_101427-jpg (900×506)

Thanks. Excellent, informative photo of a de-mounted Godin P90.

[jazzshrink]

I know the Godin P90s are 'floating' but I also doubt the fullsize humbuckers are...

Those don't look like floaters to me. "Direct mount" is the term I'm familiar with (versus "inset").

[Little Jay]

Those don't look like floaters to me. "Direct mount" is the term I'm familiar with (versus "inset").

Yeah, that’s the correct term!

[dconeill]

Actually, the HB design is very similar, with humbuckers “floating” above the top rather than sitting “in” it in routed holes.

[Updated and edited, 2025 04 08 3:45 ET]

Well, I investigated and I got both answers. Sigh. Schroedinger's pickup routs.

Answer 1. Holes are cut only for the pickups' mounting legs
I found a video at

that mentions the issue. The video doesn't show a dismounted humbucker pickup on the Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin II CW HB. However, the accompanying narration describes that the only cuts in the top for the HB pickups are to allow the pickup adjustment legs to go through the top; there are no cuts to allow the body of the pickup to penetrate the top. This is described at approximately 0:40 - 1:40 in the cited video.


Answer 2. Rectangular holes are cut for the pickups
I asked Godin Guitars about this by email. They responded
> The P90 pickups are surface mounted, but not the humbuckers.
> A rectangular cutout is made in the top to fit the humbuckers.

So, I guess the answer is "both".

[Little Jay]

[Updated and edited, 2025 04 08 3:45 ET]

Well, I investigated and I got both answers. Sigh. Schroedinger's pickup routs.

Answer 1. Holes are cut only for the pickups' mounting legs
I found a video at

that mentions the issue. The video doesn't show a dismounted humbucker pickup on the Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin II CW HB. However, the accompanying narration describes that the only cuts in the top for the HB pickups are to allow the pickup adjustment legs to go through the top; there are no cuts to allow the body of the pickup to penetrate the top. This is described at approximately 0:40 - 1:40 in the cited video.


Answer 2. Rectangular holes are cut for the pickups
I asked Godin Guitars about this by email. They responded
> The P90 pickups are surface mounted, but not the humbuckers.
> A rectangular cutout is made in the top to fit the humbuckers.

So, I guess the answer is "both".

That YouTube video only states there are no cutouts but doesn’t show it… so no real proof there. I would like to see a cellphone picture thru the f-hole to see the top from inside for some conclusive evidence.

(Don’t know why I am obsessing so much about this, haha :-)

[John A.]

That YouTube video only states there are no cutouts but doesn’t show it… so no real proof there. I would like to see a cellphone picture thru the f-hole to see the top from inside for some conclusive evidence.

(Don’t know why I am obsessing so much about this, haha :-)

I’d have to see one opened up to be sure. I guess it’s possible to just cut holes for the pickup “legs” or to use a pickup that just has tabs that stick out horizontally from the baseplate (e.g, Kent Armstrong). But neither allows for much vertical adjustment.

On the P90 Godin I had the neck pickup’s pole pieces touched the guitar top. The whole spacer + pickup assembly barely fit under the strings. A humbucker is taller than a P90, so that adds to my skepticism about there being no cutout.

[Fusionshred]

I had a HB and did extensive examination. I discovered, using one of those flexible “hose” cameras, that: 1) it’s a bolt-on neck, and 2) there are no rectangular holes in the top that the pickup sits in.

I also removed one of the humbuckers and saw that there were only the screw holes in the top.

my guess? Cheaper to produce one design whether it’s a P90 guitar or a HB guitar. Same design.

[Little Jay]

Bolt on neck? Ha, didn’t know that either, thanks!