Setting Up a Fender Twin in the Living Room

[Little Jay]

Wow - you play through 2 Twins?

Haha, no I provided the backline, it was a jamsession. Our wedding actually ;-)

[bluejaybill]

IAnd if you're gonna park it in your living room for use there and not be toting it around town, who cares how big, unwieldy and heavy it is? That's immaterial.

Well for one, my wife!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Haha, no I provided the backline, it was a jamsession. Our wedding actually ;-)

Right on - Congratulations!

The band in which I was playing when I met my wife played our wedding too. I'd given notice several weeks before, and my replacement (a very young Mike Sembello) did a stellar job on his first night in my chair. But I sat in for about half the tunes, which drove my mother-in-law crazy

[bluejaybill]

A friend is caught up in the Princeton frenzy and would probably trade his mint VR for one and I may just take him up on it.

That's a deal I would definitely do! Princetons are great, but very overvalued. Plus they made a million of them, so rarity isn't even a factor. I have a nice BFDR, at current prices I would be tempted to move it, even though I love it!

I've never owned a twin, and for me I think the sweet spot is any of the dual 6L6 amps. My favorite of course was a tweed bassman, and I had a tweed Pro that I liked, which I would switch to a nice 12" now with a baffle replacement if I still had it. I had a Victoria tweed Twin (dual 6L6) that I gigged for years, sounded great. Plus a matched set of two 6L6's is a bit cheaper than a matched quad.

Somehow they never managed to make a 1x12" dual 6L6 amp, which is a great spot for those amps with modern durable speakers. Many boutique amp companies offer that configuration. That's a nice 40 watt amp that's compact enough for a gig.

[Bob_Ross]

Does it have to be vintage? I don't think so?

fwiw, the Twin that I owned (and foolishly sold, which I still kick myself for ~40 years later) was a 1977 Silverface model with the master volume control. By all accounts -- by which I mean, according to anonymous internet trolls and influencers -- that should be a terrible amp, the worst possible version of any amp that can still be called a "Fender Twin Reverb".

It was, of course, a fantastic amp, and I would kill to have it back now.

So no, you definitely do not need a vintage model. I have not tried any of Fender's more recent reissues (either the black or silverface versions) but I would bet they're pretty damn fine amps...certainly better sounding than any modeler or virtual whizbang rig.

Also remember: Many (most?) Twins had casters, so you could certainly wheel it around your living room without injuring your back.

[Little Jay]

That's a deal I would definitely do! Princetons are great, but very overvalued. Plus they made a million of them, so rarity isn't even a factor. I have a nice BFDR, at current prices I would be tempted to move it, even though I love it!

I've never owned a twin, and for me I think the sweet spot is any of the dual 6L6 amps. My favorite of course was a tweed bassman, and I had a tweed Pro that I liked, which I would switch to a nice 12" now with a baffle replacement if I still had it. I had a Victoria tweed Twin (dual 6L6) that I gigged for years, sounded great. Plus a matched set of two 6L6's is a bit cheaper than a matched quad.

Somehow they never managed to make a 1x12" dual 6L6 amp, which is a great spot for those amps with modern durable speakers. Many boutique amp companies offer that configuration. That's a nice 40 watt amp that's compact enough for a gig.

I hear ya about dual 6L6! I had a Fender Blues Deluxe for years, an early 90ies one. It could cover most venues but the larger outdoor stages. Actually the Blues Deluxe didn’t sound great (bass heavy, bias too cold, shrill treble) untill I modded it quite extensively with adjustable bias and changed the tonestack and phase inverter to AB763 (the blackface circuit). I can tell you that wasn’t easy on the PCB but I managed. I think the size and wattage are pretty ideal and more practical than a Twin. I only sold it because I only used my vintage Framus 1x12”, 2xEL36 tube amp because that sounded even better. EL36s are financially an even better deal, because Phillips produced a lot of TV’s using these odd ball tubes and they are plentiful and relatively cheap. And I don’t even need a matched pair because the amp has a balance pot to eradicate unbalaced hum.

This all being said… I immensely enjoy playing a Twin Reverb, even if the volume knob rarely goes beyond 4 on the dial. There’s something about all that power under the hood.

Oh and another thing I do to my Twin reverbs is to replace the 10K mid pot with a 25K pot so also more tweed-like less scooped tones become available!

[D'Aquisto Fan]

1. It's not overkill. They sound good at any volume. Put a princeton next to it at the same volume and you'll think the princeton is garbage. The people who say they don't sound good at living room volume are rockers who are trying to get distortion.
2. The tonemasters are lame. I play one every week at a rehearsal space. It's fine with a band compared to other fake amps (way better than the tonemaster deluxe), but compared to a real tube one, it's a complete joke.
3. Vintage seems scarier because of the older components. However, vintage amps are much more serviceable. Get an amp tech to look over it and you're probably taking less risk than buying something with PCB that is harder to service. Not to mention the resale value. Vintage BF twins are surprisingly cheap.
4. If 2x12 is too much, try 2x10, a vibrolux. That's what I use. Perfect amp for any setting.

I agree with all of this!

[Jimmy Mack]

I've had 3 Twins (??) With different speakers. And powerful yes. BF, early 70's, mid 70's - all bought for gigging
But sweetness? It always seemed to elude me. And never enough warmth for playing jazz.

My favorite amp for that was a 1981 Fender Concert with 2 -10's. It sounded really good at bedroom volume.
It is a smaller Twin and a larger Vibrolux Reverb.

The Concert was repeatedly too loud though for gigs - cut through like a trumpet. I once played a large room with a medium rock group with it. After the show, 2 things --- I found that one speaker was unplugged, and the rest of the band /instruments were miced. The soundman had placed a mic in front of the speaker in my amp that was unplugged and it had fallen away from the amp. Don't ask how or why. At the end of the show, I complained to him that his micing was ineffective. He said," don't worry, we heard you loud and clear".

I really like the sound of Fender's Deluxe Reverbs, never had one, but I'm always tempted when trying guitars at Guitar Center. Not so much the Princetons. To me Twin Reverbs are dinosaurs. I have an old PR, (sounds great)
and a 80's PR II (sounds like a PR or a DR) and these amps are too loud for home - but SWEET .

[pauln]

The prospect raises some questions...Thought there might be a few insights and opinions.

Here is something to consider.

In tube amps with two power tubes like the Princeton, Deluxe, and Super, the last small preamp tube is a "splitter/phase inverter" which isolates the upper and lower parts of the signal waveform with respect to zero so that one power tube takes the positive part of the wave above zero, and the other the negative part below zero - they work in opposition as the splitter/phase inverter passes the signal going above and below zero back and forth between the tubes. Those two separate outputs of the two power tubes both go to the primary coil of the output transformer where they are combined, and the transformer's secondary coil sees their superposition, which goes to the speakers as a complete waveform.

In tube amps like the Twin with four power tubes, they act as opposing pairs in parallel - in the Twin, if you call the four power tubes in a row "1 2 3 4 ", 1 and 2 are doing one polarity of the signal wave and 3 and 4 are doing the other.

You can remove two power tubes, being sure that the remaining two power tubes are in the tube row positions of either 1 and 4 or 2 and 3. I prefer 1 and 4 because of the physical separation, heat wise. What happens is:

- the power of the amp is about half
- the remaining two tubes see an impedance load mismatch in the primary coil of the output transformer, which makes the tubes work harder
- the wave form itself is no longer the summation of pairs of tubes, but single tubes

For indoor home Jazz playing you won't notice the -3dB.
Likewise for indoor home Jazz playing, the mismatch is fine.
The difference will be in the sound.

Everyone has their own perspective of what sounds best (and their own vocabulary for describing it). All of my vocabulary about how this sounds is all in the "better for Jazz" direction. It changes the way I feel and play the guitar for the better as well.

If you are auditioning Twins in a shop, ask for the tech to come out and remove the two inner power tubes; it's completely reversible and just takes a few seconds. If anyone else out there tries or has tried this with their Twin, it might be illuminating to read their impressions.

[Stringswinger]

I went from a Fender Twin Reverb with JBL's (Silverface with no master volume) to a Fender Concert with 2 10's (Rivera Era) to a Mesa Mark 4 (with an EV speaker). I liked the Mesa best of all, but it eventually became to much to carry, so I tried a bunch of Princeton and Deluxe Reverbs. I never liked the 6V6 amps as well as the 6L6 amps. And I do not want to carry a 6L6 amp, even if it is a living room amp that just needs to go to an amp tech, so I am out. But kudos to you guys that still gig a Twin.

[Spook410]

I went from a Fender Twin Reverb with JBL's (Silverface with no master volume) to a Fender Concert with 2 10's (Rivera Era) to a Mesa Mark 4 (with an EV speaker). I liked the Mesa best of all, but it eventually became to much to carry, so I tried a bunch of Princeton and Deluxe Reverbs. I never liked the 6V6 amps as well as the 6L6 amps. And I do not want to carry a 6L6 amp, even if it is a living room amp that just needs to go to an amp tech, so I am out. But kudos to you guys that still gig a Twin.

I currently have a Fender Concert 1X12 (Rivera) in the living room. It's got an EV12 in it because I never liked the sound of the original CTS. Right now the amp is sounding kind of muddy. Hasn't been serviced since.. umm.. 1981? Really need to find a tech.

[Stringswinger]

I currently have a Fender Concert 1X12 (Rivera) in the living room. It's got an EV12 in it because I never liked the sound of the original CTS. Right now the amp is sounding kind of muddy. Hasn't been serviced since.. umm.. 1981? Really need to find a tech.

That should be a pretty good sounding amp. Find a Tech to get it ship shape and also find some NOS American tubes. They make a difference.

[Gitterbug]

Maybe Kurt Rosenwinkel has the recipe for a Twin that sounds good on all volumes. Here's a statement I found on the DV Mark website:

“I’m always looking for ways to get consistent great tone on my tours, and when I tried the DV Mark Micro 60 I immediately realized how much of an improvement it was over the Fender Twin that I always have on my rider. I just use the DV Mark Micro 60 to power the cabinet of the twin and it really opens up the sound to a fuller, more detailed and pleasing tone.”

[Al Haig]

There's no reason not to get one if you have the space and don't have to worry about volume. They're not that expensive and it's kind of THE quintessential clean amp. I don't think you can go wrong with new or vintage.

[Bob_Ross]

Here is something to consider.
...[snip]...
If you are auditioning Twins in a shop, ask for the tech to come out and remove the two inner power tubes; it's completely reversible and just takes a few seconds.

So no rebiasing necessary, you just literally pull out the two tubes before turning on the power?
Definitely gonna try that, thanks!

[Stringswinger]

Today, the price of a Blackface Princeton is what a Blackface Twin should be (if the Princetons had not increased in value while the Twins have decreased in value when adjusted for inflation). There has never been a better time to purchase a vintage Twin if owning it will please you.

Vintage Mesas are not as good a buy. It seems that they have become a bit fetishy since Randall sold Mesa. If I wanted an all tube amp for my living room play, I would be after either a Blackface Twin Reverb or an early (non master volume) Silverface Twin Reverb.

[Cavalier]

I like a master volume, even on solid state amps. It lets you adjust the power through the tone section then set the level going into the power amp. More or less gain into the tone circuit adds flexibility.

[John A.]

1. It's not overkill. They sound good at any volume. Put a princeton next to it at the same volume and you'll think the princeton is garbage. The people who say they don't sound good at living room volume are rockers who are trying to get distortion.

To your preferences, maybe, but to state in absolute terms like this is simply untrue. I know many people who don't agree, and know pretty much no one who says, "if not for [list of inconveniences] I'd use a Twin. This includes people I know who HAVE Twins, and don't use them because they prefer their other amps.
Not that it matters; we should all just use what we like and not worry about others' preferences. But dammit, once again someone is wrong on the internet, and that cannot be allowed to stand.

3. Vintage seems scarier because of the older components. However, vintage amps are much more serviceable. Get an amp tech to look over it and you're probably taking less risk than buying something with PCB that is harder to service. Not to mention the resale value. Vintage BF twins are surprisingly cheap.
4. If 2x12 is too much, try 2x10, a vibrolux. That's what I use. Perfect amp for any setting.

Vibrolux Reverbs are great (IMO, they sound better than TR's). Still would rather have a PR or DR than a VR, though.

[John A.]

I like a master volume, even on solid state amps. It lets you adjust the power through the tone section then set the level going into the power amp. More or less gain into the tone circuit adds flexibility.

Not so much with Fender BF or SF circuits though. IME, the MV's on these don't really do anything useful.

[jim777]

I know this is a Twin thread, but the best sounding Fender amp I've personally ever heard was the BF Super Reverb that was in the archtop room at Mandolin Brothers on Staten Island. It had a rather large "NOT FOR SALE" sign on it, and it was beyond glorious at living room volume. I've never owned one but have wanted one ever since.

[pauln]

So no rebiasing necessary, you just literally pull out the two tubes before turning on the power?
Definitely gonna try that, thanks!

Right, just be sure to pull only the two inner or two outer tubes. I'm interested in how people describe what they hear.

Also, if you pull two tubes and disconnect one of the speakers*, the mismatched load impedance becomes matched again for just the two tubes in place... in the event you find you like the power reduction more than the tone of the mismatch. Using only one speaker will reduce the sound level a bit more as well. Also, using just one speaker with all four tubes will shift the mismatch from the primary coil to the secondary coil in the output transformer so the "works harder" thing moved to the speaker instead of the tubes. This is all safe for jazz; the output transformer is designed for a doubling to halving of its spec load impedance; but might want to be cautious if routinely driving the amp to stage performance levels of loud rock/blues (impedance matching becomes important with transfer of high levels of power.).

* the two speakers are in parallel, each 8 ohms so they present a 4 ohm load. The connection from the amp to the speakers goes to one of them (both terminals), then hops from those terminals to the other speaker (both terminals)... the one to disconnect is the "second" speaker, one that has only two leads. Pull one of its leads off and wrap its end connector in tape (this is reversible and prevents reconnecting two leads backwards)

[Cavalier]

Not so much with Fender BF or SF circuits though. IME, the MV's on these don't really do anything useful.

Sorry dude, quite wrong there. I've been using these for decades. And for equal time the non master volume versions. Nice amps, not quite as versatile but I use these for bowed instruments as well as guitar. A picker only might not notice the same things.

[John A.]

Sorry dude, quite wrong there. I've been using these for decades.

Not wrong in my experience, and I owned something similar (brownface Pro with a master volume installed) for decades and have played through dozens of MV twins. But you and I may have different ideas of useful.

[Cavalier]

Not wrong in my experience, and I owned something similar (brownface Pro with a master volume installed) for decades and have played through dozens of MV twins. But you and I may have different ideas of useful.

I see, you haven't owned one, but have played some on occasion. I think that illustrates the foundation your evaluation is based on pretty clearly.

[wintermoon]

Wow - you play through 2 Twins?

Pat Martino did for years.