Pickup Replacement: Godin 5th Ave Kingpin

[Parasko]

Hi all,

I recently bought a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin (the single pickup P90 version). This is my first hollow body guitar and I just love it! However, the P90 hum is killing my recordings. I’m seeking recommendations for a noiseless pickup.

FWIW I’m not a jazz player and I play more indie/folk/rock using flatwounds. I’ve played mainly acoustic guitars to date so I’m also new to the world of pickups.

I’m seeking a clean balanced tone for recording purposes with zero hum.

Any recommendations?

My initial research has led me to Seymour Duncans (Pearly Gates or Seth Lover) or a Bartolini Andreas Tucker 1CTA.

Any advice appreciated.

[-Milos-]

Take a look at Lollar Pickups, they have several P90's references including this one : DC-90 Pickup | Lollar Pickups

Could be a good way to reduce the hum, improve your tone & avoid modifications on the structure of the guitar.

[Herbie]

Congrats!

Pearly Gates and Seth Lovers are full sized humbuckers, they don’t (at least easily) fit in Kingpin.

There is some praised noiseless P90s. Lindy Fralin made first good one:

Hum Cancelling P90 by Lindy Fralin: All P90 Tone, No Hum!

Then Fishman makes one too, but it needs 9V battery.

Fluence Signature Series Greg Koch Gristle-Tone™ P90 Pickups - Fishman

[bediles]

You could use a EHX Humdebugger.

[Parasko]

Ok thanks. I’ll check out the Lollar pickups.

Take a look at Lollar Pickups, they have several P90's references including this one : DC-90 Pickup | Lollar Pickups

Could be a good way to reduce the hum, improve your tone & avoid modifications on the structure of the guitar.

[Parasko]

Thanks. I’ll check out the Fralin pickups.

I thought that a humbucker could be installed in the Kingpin. Is that not the case?

Congrats!

Pearly Gates and Seth Lovers are full sized humbuckers, they don’t (at least easily) fit in Kingpin.

There is some praised noiseless P90s. Lindy Fralin made first good one:

Hum Cancelling P90 by Lindy Fralin: All P90 Tone, No Hum!

Then Fishman makes one too, but it needs 9V battery.

Fluence Signature Series Greg Koch Gristle-Tone™ P90 Pickups - Fishman

[Parasko]

You could use a EHX Humdebugger.

How effective is this in reducing the hum?

[garybaldy]

I have 3 guitars with P90s, one SG type, one Tele type and one budget archtop. They all hum at a reasonable volume which can be frustrating.
Obviously back in the day the humbucker was developed to 'solve' this issue but many players both in jazz and rock persevered with P90s.
I guess they didn't have a problem with the hum or they grinned and bore it.

[RyanM]

EHX Hum Debugger, or Ilitch has a noiseless circuit for single coil pickups that apparently works amazing and doesn’t change the tone. I don’t know how hard it would be to install. I wouldn’t put a humbucker in that guitar. Maybe there are some noiseless p90s that sound good

[bediles]

How effective is this in reducing the hum?

I know nothing of the noiseless P90 world so take this with a grain of salt. But I would probably find a pickup you liked before adding something to your signal chain. That being said, I don't have one but folks I know swear by the pedal on its regular setting for eliminating 60 cycle.

*edit* I say this bc you're not talking about a vintage instrument and I like to travel light

[jorgemg1984]

I had a custom pickup made from The Creamery in the UK, for exactly that guitar - it was an humbucker in a P90 format. Worked like a charm, and sounded much better than the original, but I'm a jazz player with rounds.

Anyway, checking humbuckers in the dogear P90 format it's probably the easiest way to solve it.

[Parasko]

That’s great to hear!
Are you able to provide any more specs on the pickup?

I had a custom pickup made from The Creamery in the UK, for exactly that guitar - it was an humbucker in a P90 format. Worked like a charm, and sounded much better than the original, but I'm a jazz player with rounds.

Anyway, checking humbuckers in the dogear P90 format it's probably the easiest way to solve it.

[jorgemg1984]

That’s great to hear!
Are you able to provide any more specs on the pickup?

I don't recall the whole thing, it was a long time ago, but here's a link

Custom Handwound Replacement Vintage and Modern Humbucker Pickups: P90 Sized Humbucker - Dogear

I remember Jamie being very open about custom stuff, and he ended up building me one of his PAFs for jazz in that format, I remember choosing Alnico V and the 12 pole-pieces visible. Since you have different sonic requirements, he might suggest different things.

If you look online, there's more people doing that and maybe some of them do it faster/closer to you, Jamie is a one-man band I believe.

[John A.]

Hi all,

I recently bought a Godin 5th Avenue Kingpin (the single pickup P90 version). This is my first hollow body guitar and I just love it! However, the P90 hum is killing my recordings. I’m seeking recommendations for a noiseless pickup.

FWIW I’m not a jazz player and I play more indie/folk/rock using flatwounds. I’ve played mainly acoustic guitars to date so I’m also new to the world of pickups.

I’m seeking a clean balanced tone for recording purposes with zero hum.

Any recommendations?

My initial research has led me to Seymour Duncans (Pearly Gates or Seth Lover) or a Bartolini Andreas Tucker 1CTA.

Any advice appreciated.

Those won't work on the Kingpin, nor will most (if not all) "noiseless" P90s, which are all humbuckers shoe-horned into a P90-sized form. The reason for this is that there is no hole cut into the top of the Kinpin for the pickup. Instead, the pickup sits on top of a spacer that positions
it above the top. That leaves the top intact except for a small hole for the wire leading to the volume control.

This is why the Kingpin has such a strong acoustic sound and is also a big factor in it's amplified sound, but it very much limits options for replacement pickups. There's only a little space between the guitar top and the strings, and SFAIK, only a real p90 sized pickup will fit there (and that just barely). If you want to use any other pickup, you'll have to cut an opening into the top, which is expensive to have done and basically defeats the whole idea of this guitar. I know this from direct experience of owning a Kingpin and looking into replacing the pickup.

The best answer is to use an EHX Hum-Debugger. It works very effectively and doesn't have much effect on the sound of the guitar* . I used one on pretty much all the time with the Kingpin I had. The illitch system could work, but it's very expensive, and would be extremely difficult to install on a Kingpin (because there's no pickup routing). Basically, if you can't deal with the P90 noise and find the Hum-Debugger changes the sound too much, this is not the guitar for you.

* The hum debugger has a "normal" and a "strong" setting. On "normal", with a clean tone, it's basically not noticeable. But on the "strong" setting it can have a kind of tinny/ringing overtone, that gets reinforced by an overdriven sound. It's a lot less noticeable with a band, but it bugs some people.

[Parasko]

Wonderful! Thank you!

I don't recall the whole thing, it was a long time ago, but here's a link

Custom Handwound Replacement Vintage and Modern Humbucker Pickups: P90 Sized Humbucker - Dogear

I remember Jamie being very open about custom stuff, and he ended up building me one of his PAFs for jazz in that format, I remember choosing Alnico V and the 12 pole-pieces visible. Since you have different sonic requirements, he might suggest different things.

If you look online, there's more people doing that and maybe some of them do it faster/closer to you, Jamie is a one-man band I believe.

[Parasko]

Thanks John.

ok I’ll look into this as my first option.

Those won't work on the Kingpin, nor will most (if not all) "noiseless" P90s, which are all humbuckers shoe-horned into a P90-sized form. The reason for this is that there is no hole cut into the top of the Kinpin for the pickup. Instead, the pickup sits on top of a spacer that positions
it above the top. That leaves the top intact except for a small hole for the wire leading to the volume control.

This is why the Kingpin has such a strong acoustic sound and is also a big factor in it's amplified sound, but it very much limits options for replacement pickups. There's only a little space between the guitar top and the strings, and SFAIK, only a real p90 sized pickup will fit there (and that just barely). If you want to use any other pickup, you'll have to cut an opening into the top, which is expensive to have done and basically defeats the whole idea of this guitar. I know this from direct experience of owning a Kingpin and looking into replacing the pickup.

The best answer is to use an EHX Hum-Debugger. It works very effectively and doesn't have much effect on the sound of the guitar* . I used one on pretty much all the time with the Kingpin I had. The illitch system could work, but it's very expensive, and would be extremely difficult to install on a Kingpin (because there's no pickup routing). Basically, if you can't deal with the P90 noise and find the Hum-Debugger changes the sound too much, this is not the guitar for you.

* The hum debugger has a "normal" and a "strong" setting. On "normal", with a clean tone, it's basically not noticeable. But on the "strong" setting it can have a kind of tinny/ringing overtone, that gets reinforced by an overdriven sound. It's a lot less noticeable with a band, but it bugs some people.

[jorgemg1984]

Thanks John.

ok I’ll look into this as my first option.

On this note, if I remember correctly my luthier did complain it wasn't a simple drop-in replacement, and that there were indeed internal obstacles - but he managed to overcome them without damaging the guitar. If you don't have access to a good luthier, maybe the EHX pedal is the best solution indeed.

[garybaldy]

I had a custom pickup made from The Creamery in the UK, for exactly that guitar - it was an humbucker in a P90 format. Worked like a charm, and sounded much better than the original, but I'm a jazz player with rounds.

Anyway, checking humbuckers in the dogear P90 format it's probably the easiest way to solve it.

Is the purpose of a Creamery HB in a p90 cover used purely to replace a regular p90 because of its' physical dimensions or does it sound like a p90 as well?

[jorgemg1984]

Is the purpose of a Creamery HB in a p90 cover used purely to replace a regular p90 because of its' physical dimensions or does it sound like a p90 as well?

No, it sounded like a mini-PAF, more acoustic and brighter and with a leaner bass than a regular full-sized PAF. But it sounded clearly like an humbucker, not a P90, which was exactly what I wanted.

[garybaldy]

No, it sounded like a mini-PAF, more acoustic and brighter and with a leaner bass than a regular full-sized PAF. But it sounded clearly like an humbucker, not a P90, which was exactly what I wanted.

I have 2 'Firebird vintage style' mini HBs from Creamery. They are wonderful.

[jorgemg1984]

I have 2 'Firebird vintage style' mini HBs from Creamery. They are wonderful.

I absolutely loved that Creamery pickup I had on the Kingpin - I bought it because Jaime was the only guy I could find online that did a custom humbucker in that P90 format in Europe (at least back in the day, I bet you can find others today). I didn't have high hopes for it, but it sounded wonderful, even better than many other hyped brands I tried before (and I remember the pickup being affordable too). If the Kingpin didn't have a flat radius, I'd still have it!

[RomanS]

If you don't mind the 3 tiny holes in the top (2 for screws, one for pickup wire), you could also use a floating humbucker (either mounted to the neck or to the pickguard).

[jim232777]

If you really want to stay with the P90 sound I would definitely contact Lindy Fralin, mentioned above by Herbie. Take note that this diagram on the linked page looks like his version might fit on the guitar without requiring any cutting.

[Parasko]

Thanks.

I don’t know anything about floating pickups so I’ll have to look into this.

So could I keep the current neck pickup and add a floating pickup mounted to the pick guard?

If you don't mind the 3 tiny holes in the top (2 for screws, one for pickup wire), you could also use a floating humbucker (either mounted to the neck or to the pickguard).

[Parasko]

Thanks. I’ll try to contact to get more info.

I have also just purchased a Morley Hum Eliminator. Hopefully this can reduce the hum somewhat.

If you really want to stay with the P90 sound I would definitely contact Lindy Fralin, mentioned above by Herbie. Take note that this diagram on the linked page looks like his version might fit on the guitar without requiring any cutting.