1956 Gibson ES-175!

[RetroSound]

Thank you sir! Will do!

[RetroSound]

A big Congratulations!

Thank you!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I'm curious about the zig zag tp. I thought that was released with the PAF model in 57, but could be wrong. Here's the 56 catalog.Attachment 119671

I don't have a '57 catalog, and to this day I can't find one to download or buy. There's what's described as a '57 catalog on Reverb (listed as sold). But there are only a few pages in the preview, and the 175 page is not one of them.

I do have a '58, which shows this:



I don't think the zigzag tp was made early enough for the factory to have put one on a new '56. But I think it's as much a part of the spirit and soul of the 175 as anything else about the model. It's one of the most unique and artful tailpieces ever put on a guitar, and I love it. Whether or not it's original (which I strongly doubt), it's almost certainly genuine. The zigzag wire doesn't touch the center bar on the aftermarket versions I've seen. But yours is exactly like the ones in the catalog and on the '59 175DN that (along with the well worn 345 that preceeded it in my high school years' collection of one) gave rise to my forum nickname. I stupidly sold it to buy an L5-CN after about 1500 gigs in a decade+ of loving ownership.

Congratulatons, RetroSound! Your 175 is an integral part of the history and evolution of jazz guitar.

[RetroSound]

Congrats, and may she inspire your playing for many years to come. I always say that a Gibson ES-175 is all the guitar that a jazz guitarist needs (I own three of them, so I walk that talk in triplicate!)

Thank you very much! I'm excited to get to know it!

[RetroSound]

Wow! Congrats! What a perfectness! That’s my dream guitar too!

Have a good time with it!

Thanks Herbie!

[wintermoon]

No offense to my friend nshsi but I've said it many times, don't always go by Gibson catalogues, they're frequently inaccurate artists renditions and don't always reflect period production instruments and specs sometimes changed during the year. Experience and observing many guitars over many years is a much better indicator.

[RetroSound]

No offense to my friend nshsi but I've said it many times, don't always go by Gibson catalogues, they're frequently inaccurate artists renditions and don't always reflect period production instruments and specs sometimes changed during the year. Experience and observing many guitars over many years is a much better indicator.

Very true! I've seen them both ways so I'm guessing thats the case.

[Gitterbug]

I fell in love with the zigzag tailpiece as a 13-year old in 1959. On my 1959 VOS reissue, there's a 1/2" distance between the zags and the center strip. Should I be worried?

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

No offense to my friend nshsi but I've said it many times, don't always go by Gibson catalogues, they're frequently inaccurate artists renditions and don't always reflect period production instruments and specs sometimes changed during the year. Experience and observing many guitars over many years is a much better indicator.

True 'nuf! They only printed a catalog once a year, although they made many running changes in that time. And I think Ingram says in his 175 book that the zigzag tp was "introduced in 1956" (whatever that means). I'll dig out my copy and check later - I have to leave soon for a solo gig tonight. But even the Gibson catalog illustrations were rarely more than a year out of date.

The '58 catalog still has the trapeze on the single p/u 175, so I think it's unikely that they put zigzags on production '56s. Maybe they put a few on to judge acceptance by dealers and potential buyers. But I've never seen a single P90 175 from the '50s with a zigzag as delivered.

[wintermoon]

True 'nuf! They only printed a catalog once a year, although they made many running changes in that time. And I think Ingram says in his 175 book that the zigzag tp was "introduced in 1956" (whatever that means). I'll dig out my copy and check later - I have to leave soon for a solo gig tonight. But even the Gibson catalog illustrations were rarely more than a year out of date.

The '58 catalog still has the trapeze on the single p/u 175, so I think it's unikely that they put zigzags on production '56s. Maybe they put a few on to judge acceptance by dealers and potential buyers. But I've never seen a single P90 175 from the '50s with a zigzag as delivered.

Uh oh, is your residency in Lansdowne over?

[garybaldy]

Here's an aftermarket one a bought last year.

[Gitterbug]

Here's my 1959 VOS tailpiece. All certificates etc. and bought from a reputable expert shop.

[garybaldy]

Here's my 1959 VOS tailpiece. All certificates etc. and bought from a reputable expert shop.

I've just looked at 4 of these guitars at random online (reverb, ebay, here etc) and they all had the wire touching the centre bar. Must've been what Gibson could source at the time

[RetroSound]

After a little digging and reading about the three examples I found of '56's with the zig zag, I found that two of the ones I saw mentioned replacement tailpieces so I suspect that mine has been replaced with the post '56 version and while it does mean a modification, I'm also really glad because I think it looks much better. It really a beautiful old guitar.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Uh oh, is your residency in Lansdowne over?

I quit as of Dec 31. I needed to get back to a higher class of music. I felt like I was being taken advantage of, and I was angry while playing. This is unhealthy and my playing got really sloppy. I’m now doing a few solo dates per month plus a few dates with a new trio of old friends whom I’m sure you know on bass & drums. I already have bookings out through June. I’m also getting together with a local vocalist the week after next to see if we click as a duo. I’m hopeful that it’ll work, and my book will be as full as I want it if I add even 2 a month with her.

The last thing in the world I want to do at my age is pound the pavement for gigs - but I’m doing it.

[yebdox]

I fell in love with the zigzag tailpiece as a 13-year old in 1959. On my 1959 VOS reissue, there's a 1/2" distance between the zags and the center strip. Should I be worried?

I, too, have spent many sleepless nights worrying about the dimensions on my VOS 175. So much so, that I had to measure the total upper bout width distance in comparison to my friend's vintage '59 175, as mine looked too fat or squarish, somehow.

Sure enough, the VOS is slightly wider across the upper bout, giving it a more square appearance that looks just slightly off. ( I don't recall if it was 3/8" or 3/4" wider, but I think it was the latter.) Kind of like noticing that your new Italian supermodel's eyes are just a tad too wide set.

A conundrum.

Do you break up with her, and go back out on the international supermodel dating scene, realizing that even greater perfection will be more rare and costly, time is passing, you're getting older and perhaps should focus on the meaning of life instead? It's been tough and very painful, at times. I think Marcus Aurelius struggled similarly. Perhaps Epictetus and Thomas Jefferson, as well.

I decided to keep her, as she plays and sounds perfect. But sometime I have to squint when I look at her and imagine away the imperfect curve to her upper torso. If only I had not been born with such a refined attention to detail and the Golden Mean. A curse, I say, a damned curse!

[garybaldy]

Would there have been any changes in the 175 body dims over the decades of production? Is the vos the only exception?

[jim777]

I quit as of Dec 31. I needed to get back to a higher class of music. I felt like I was being taken advantage of, and I was angry while playing. This is unhealthy and my playing got really sloppy.

I can't imagine your playing ever being something that could be described as sloppy, on any of the instruments you play. That said, I think we have enough Jersey/Philly local guys on here that we could make a date to all come out and see you in the near future and get to know each other a bit better and enjoy an evening of great playing. I'd be honored to buy the first round

[yebdox]

Would there have been any changes in the 175 body dims over the decades of production? Is the vos the only exception?

My poor attempts at humor aside, there is a definite extra roundness to the upper bout in the late 50's, slightly greater in the early 60's and especially the middle to late 70's models, with a slightly more square-ish upper bout in the VOS and 90's versions, and an exaggerated cutaway in the 80's, 90's and later (except for the VOS).

I haven't measured most of them, but I did measure the upper bout of my VOS in comparison to my friend's actual '59, and the '59 was definitely more narrow by 3/4", giving it a nicer, more rounded appearance. But the VOS otherwise was extremely close in sound and playability, so much so that I did not think the $7k difference at the time was worth it. They really are great versions of the venerable 175 and I'm keeping mine.

[Cunamara]

Yes, there were changes to the shape of the S175 body when looking at it from the front. The radius curvature of the cutaway is different in different eras and the shape of the upper bout, also. I don't know whether the pressed shape of the arch of the top changed, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.