Quilter Aviator Cub or Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb?

[Bflat233]

I don't know who uses what most. There are people who like the scooped Fender BF/Sound, people who prefer more mids (e.g., tweed, Polytone, Ampeg, DV Mark LJ), and people who like a neutral PA-like sound (e.g., Henriksen, AER). The tweed input delivers more mid range and more potential for overdrive. I wouldn't say "crispness" or "woodiness" (which, as near as I can tell, people associate with a clean, almost acoustic sound), because that's not the way early Hall or Farlow sound to me. But, yes, the tweed input is something like '50s and early '60s jazz recordings because tweed and similar amps (e.g., Hall's Gibson) is what existed and was used on those recordings. The first BF amps didn't hit until 1964.

Super helpful - thank you!

[bluejaybill]

This is a "to each their own" kind of situation. Personally, I would not use the typical blackface tone for jazz. With the scooped mids, it is designed to emphasize bass and treble and allow more volume while maintaining a semblance of clean tone. When I have played through one of these amps, I thought that the tone ended up being a bit thin and clangy for my tastes, but if I was playing country or something like that I might feel differently. I have a silverface Fender Pro Reverb that I've owned for nearly 40 years and haven't even actually turned on in probably close to a decade. It's been out of the house for a gig once in the last 25 years because it weighs just too darn much to tote around without hurting myself. I find the silverface amps to sound less mid scooped (although still very mid scooped). The top end is a little rounder.

I have settled on a 5E3 tweed Deluxe clone for 10 to 15 years now. Small, fairly lightweight, has a nice big fat sound (Cannabis Rex 12 inch speaker) and it just works for me. So whenever I'm looking at some sort of amplification and there's an indication of a "tweed" setting, that's the one I start with.

A funny thing about guitarists. We tend to firmly believe that older = better. I remember back in the 1980s and everybody complained about how crappy Gibson and Fender guitars of the era were; now those are vintage and therefore "better."

I agree about BF tones, and I Have a really nice BF Deluxe Reverb. I can make it work for jazz with an EQ pedal to boost the mids, but in general it is too scooped for me. I think most of the bigger BF amps are better though, fuller sounding and with a mid control as well.

As to your other point, I don't think too many folks who know '50's and '60's guitars think that '80's guitars are better, and definitely not that they are "vintage". Those who claim that are mostly about marketing hype, ie they are trying to sell a '70's or '80's guitar, which were the reason that older guitars became more coveted in the first place.

[Jimmy Mack]

I bought a modded Princeton Reverb that had a Mid pot added to the rear panel, in one of the unused holes. What great idea it is! I can go from scooped to fat and warm. Great for switching from Single coils to hum buckers, and great for enriching the "jazz" tones.
I highly recommend this mod to ALL PR owners - it is fairly common.

[ccroft]

OK CCroft I am surprised! Reading the TB202 thread you seemed to be a Full Q disciple. As well as a TB202 early adopter. So you have since left it for FRFR. And would consider the Cub if you didn’t own … which Quilter amp? The Aviator, the TB/BD? This inquiring mind wants to know!

Yes, fairly early adopter. To make it clear, the Aviator8 is long gone, I play TB202 exclusively, and I'm not interested in changing amps. Yes, I was all FullQ for several years. Then I started playing around with the FRFR setting on TB202. It does help tame low mid feedback for one thing.

Actually, just the other day I was flipping that switch and now I think I like all 3! Just different is all.The FRFR setting isn't just for modellers. It still acts like a guitar amp. Just a flatter response one, perhaps like Henrikson. But I've never played a Blu for EG.

My 'recommendation' for Cub was based on the idea that maybe you didn't want to spend $1300 or so on TB202 + BlockDock12, and that maybe you didn't need to.

I meant to say I'd be interested in Cub if I wasn't so totally happy with TB202 and BlockDock. (I have Dock 10 and 12 BTW).

[Bflat233]

Yes, fairly early adopter. To make it clear, the Aviator8 is long gone, I play TB202 exclusively, and I'm not interested in changing amps. Yes, I was all FullQ for several years. Then I started playing around with the FRFR setting on TB202. It does help tame low mid feedback for one thing.

Actually, just the other day I was flipping that switch and now I think I like all 3! Just different is all.The FRFR setting isn't just for modellers. It still acts like a guitar amp. Just a flatter response one, perhaps like Henrikson. But I've never played a Blu for EG.

My 'recommendation' for Cub was based on the idea that maybe you didn't want to spend $1300 or so on TB202 + BlockDock12, and that maybe you didn't need to.

I meant to say I'd be interested in Cub if I wasn't so totally happy with TB202 and BlockDock. (I have Dock 10 and 12 BTW).

You sized up my requirements perfectly. I have benefited greatly from this discussion with you and all the folks that have weighed in. I see the appeal of the TB202 /Block Dock and I agree that the Cub is a good step in that direction. It will help me to experiment with these three classic Fender tones, rather than lock in on just one - black face - as I would have done with the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb. It is also more affordable, about 2 pounds lighter than the TMDR, and it comes with a 6-year warranty compared to Fender’s 2-year warranty. I know from past experiences that Quilter customer service is excellent.

[SierraTango]

Thanks, SierraTango. So you are also using the Tweed input. This is noteworthy. I would have thought the Black would get the most use by jazz guitar players.

Could it be that the Tweed delivers a tone similar to what we hear in recordings by Jim Hall and Tal Farlow - a woodier, crisper tone, with short decay? While the Black delivers a tone we might describe as closer to what Wes Montgomery and Pat Martino were getting - that is, more sustain, more bottom, tone rolled off? I realize these characterizations are subjective, so feel free to weigh in with ones that resonate with what you're hearing.

When I received my Cub, I wasn't looking for Jim Hall, Tal or Wes tone. I simply wanted to emulate MY tone that I had perfected with the Benedetto and the Evans. So I set up a simple A/B switch and tried all the options on the Cub to get a similar tone of the Evans. In the end, the Tweed input got me really, really close. As you may be aware, Evans amps have many tone shaping options, I laughingly refer to them as the Mesa Boogie of Jazz amps. Much to tweek.
Again, the Cub and the Evans are kept at low volume in my setup, and serve mostly as a stage monitor and tone shaping device before the FOH.

[John A.]

You sized up my requirements perfectly. I have benefited greatly from this discussion with you and all the folks that have weighed in. I see the appeal of the TB202 /Block Dock and I agree that the Cub is a good step in that direction. It will help me to experiment with these three classic Fender tones, rather than lock in on just one - black face - as I would have done with the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb. It is also more affordable, about 2 pounds lighter than the TMDR, and it comes with a 3-year warranty compared to a 2-year warranty. I know from past experiences that Quilter customer service is excellent.

It's also a smaller footprint. And with every sq. ft. in my apartment spoken for, that was a factor

[Bflat233]

It's also a smaller footprint. And with every sq. ft. in my apartment spoken for, that was a factor

Yep - and to add to the list of advantages it has an effects loop and a headphone jack, which the TMDR does not.

[davang55]

So I had a Cub and liked it. Put a Eminence Cannibis Rex and made it even sweeter, but... I "downgraded to the Superblock US, put that eminence in a Seismic Cab (actually this cab is wayyy too deep) but any way it sounds great! 25 watts is all I need. That being said if you want to get smaller with "no frill" The quilter Phantom block also sounds great while not having as many features obviously it's great plug 'n' play like for doing one song at church or whatever. IMHO.

[Bflat233]

Played the Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb in a private room for about an hour at Guitar Center. It’s a good amp, but I wasn’t stoked. It took me a long time to dial in my tone, and even then it wasn’t where it needed to be. I didn’t like the onboard reverb. I suppose I am spoiled by years with my Quilter MP-200-8. Glad I had the opportunity to test drive it.

Ordered the Aviator Cub today (Friday) from Sweetwater and it arrives at the house on Monday (wow is that fast or what?). I will give it a month or so before I write up my experience with it in the practice room and in a nightclub. Fingers crossed!

[Bflat233]

I want to close the loop on my Quilter Aviator Cub vs the Fender Deluxe Reverb decision. I have been using the Cub every day for a month in my home studio. When I bought it I thought I would use the Black channel for the most part. After all, it was engineered to replicate the Fender Deluxe Reverb, which I also considered.

So far, I’ve come to prefer the Tweed channel with my archtop. The tone is more focused than the Black channel. I’ve been transcribing Tal Farlow’s improvised melody for Tenderly (the 1955 Los Angeles recording) and the Tweed channel is delivering that woody tonality. At the same time, I like the more diffused tone of the Black channel with my semi-hollow. It adds warmth and depth to the guitar’s sound. I haven’t tried the Blonde channel yet. Nor have I used a Y Chord, as a number of players have recommended, to blend two channels for more diverse tones.

I took the Cub to a club gig this past week. Our band consisted of two guitars, upright bass, drums, and four horns. We usually have a piano, so I can’t say how the Cub would perform in that setting, but there was plenty of sound coming off that bandstand and the amp did everything I asked it to do. Notably, I never had the volume above 9 o’clock - so very low. The big chords were rich. The accent chords were clear and bright but not piercing in any way. Next time I'll add another notch to the volume so I can turn up from the guitar when soloing. Also - I really appreciated the Cub's small footprint, as the bandstand was crowded.

I admit, I felt some amp envy when I saw the new Limited Edition Tone Master Deluxe Reverb from Sweetwater. The color scheme is very attractive to my eye. More important, Fender has included the Celestion Creamback in the Sweetwater edition. Even so - the TMDR is limited in comparison to the Cub. I really like the Tweed and I have the Black Face on board. Of course, the Blonde channel is still out there, too.

I am a happy camper. Many thanks to all who contributed.

[arnie65]

To me (IMO) the TMDR is a better choice for Jazz, and it's a bit more versatile than the Aviator. Rich Severson certainly gets a glorious tone out of the Aviator with his collection of archtops, but then again; he's a Quilter dealer, and endorsed by Quilter, so you wouldn't see him ever playing a TMDR. I do like the compact design of the Aviator, and for the money you get a better deal. It's always a matter of not what it's best, but what it's the best for you...




Arnie..