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So, I'm on a quest to get the early Kenny Burrell tone and I've read extensively that he used a tweed deluxe (Van Gelder studio amp) on those recordings. I'm wondering if any of you know of a 5e3 or similar tweed circuit amp with on board reverb? I know, I know... just put a reverb pedal in front of the amp. Definitely a quick, easy option. But, I'll soon be playing small trio gigs and I'd like to keep things super simple. Guitar, cable, amp if possible. I just can't (well, don't want to) play without some reverb but I REALLY want that late 50's tone. I've been looking at the Victoria Vicky Verb which seems like a good option, but I'm sure there must be others? Oh, and Happy New Year!
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01-01-2025 01:41 PM
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It wouldn't be a 5e3 if it had reverb.
Fender already had a solution in '63...
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Hi Retro,
Yeah, the 5E3's are super cool!
I know you're new here - welcome again! - and for any "Want to Buy/Looking for" sort of posts, stating a budget would be helpful! There's a ton of knowledge here on the Forum, and there are too many gear options out there that can range from a few hundred bucks to several thousand -- so where is your budget?
Thanks!
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good point! I'd say I'd be looking for something in the $1500-$2000 range ideally. Buying used to get max bang for the buck is my preference.
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yes, great amp but I'm looking for those extra mids that the black panel amps are missing...
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Take a reverb pedal, velcro it to the inside bottom of the cab and plug it in from there. My amp is a 5e3 and I just use a reverb pedal. It's not that complicated IMHO. Most of the time there is enough natural reverb in the room that added reverb isn't necessary, mostly just in an acoustically dead space where reverberations and echoes are intentionally reduced (e.g, a recording studio). Indeed, adding reverb in a gig space with hard surfaces can contribute to a muddy, indistinct sound. To my ears this happens a lot when I go out to hear jazz guitarists.
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Agreed... reverb can be overused. The "velcro the pedal in the cabinet" idea is pretty cool. I have to assume you're running the pedal on 9v battery power?
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Victoria Ivy League with a reverb pedal?
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I have a Fat Jimmy Gigmaster 20 amp. It is loosely built on a BF circuit but has some tweaks that he incorporates from brown and tweed amps. The result is a great sounding amp that has a bit more mids than a BF, which I know because it sits next to a '66 Deluxe Reverb. Might be worth a look, slightly over your budget though.
Another way to get nearer to that sound is with an EQ pedal. You could definitely get in the ball park with a BF style amp and an EQ.
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No. I have a TC Hall of Fame 2 and it eats a 9V battery so fast that it wouldn't make it to the end of the gig. I use a Cioks SOL Power supply which is dead silent, unlike the 1Spot I used before which induced quite a bit of hum.
Originally Posted by RetroSound
I haven't gotten around to setting up the whole thing permanently, but what I'm going to do is wire in a two outlet box in the bottom of the cabinet, shortening the amp power cord to plug into one of those outlets, and then run a 3 prong cord from there to the house power. (All amps should have a courtesy outlet on the back like my old Pro Reverb did, which would make this easier. I used to have a power strip inside the bottom of the cab, but it took up too much room.) The SOL would be plugged into the other outlet, also Velcro-ed to the bottom of the cab to power the HOF2. The HOF would be plugged into the input jack on the amp and positioned to make it easy to plug the guitar cord into the input. Admittedly this is a lot of monkeying around just to avoid having a pedal sitting on the floor in front of my amp!
The inspiration for this was an amp setup where the amp's input jack was routed directly to the pedal and then the output of the pedal connected to the preamp circuit just after the input jack- making it a more or less permanent installation- but that's way more trouble than I want to go through. The advantage was being able to plug into the amp like usual and the reverb circuit being mostly invisible.
A downside is that adjusting the knobs of the pedal is kind of a pain, though, since you have to go behind the amp. I'm a set-it-and-forget-it guy anyway.
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I have a TDRI and I use a Catalinbread Topanga to get a similar sound.
But also the Swart AST is basically what you're describing. Deluxe-ish circuit with built in spring reverb and tremolo. I played one the day I got my deluxe and nearly bought it instead. Some days I wish I had haha.
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I've been eyeing the Swart STR Tweed! Looks like it might be just the sound but I'm not sure i'd want to be limited to 5W. Not sure how much headroom it has but I'll definitely look further into other Swart models.
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Marsh TweedyVerb is the answer to which you seek.
Marsh TweedyVerb 15 Watt Amplifier Brand New! 12" Alnico Speaker! | eBay
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That mesa boogie California tweed is basically what you’re describing. There’s a guy selling it on this forum.
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The Swart AST pretty much IS a 5E3 with reverb & tremolo. And tighter low end. I own one, along with a Tungsten Crema Wheat which is another 5E3 derivative (modded for more headroom and tighter low end, but it's still a tweed sound, not blackface).
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I had a couple of tungstens. Not enough low end IMO, sounded pretty thin. However the buckwheat is definitely much better than the crema wheat if you go there due to the larger cab.
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Check out a Fender Rivera-era Princeton Reverb II. They tend to be a bit midrange-y, but can be controlled via it's midrange knob. Of all the Fender rigs I've played it comes closest to a 5e3 than others. It definitely is not the typical Fender mid-scooped blackface tone. Another plus is that PRII's tend to be a relative bargain compared to other Rivera-era amps.
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It's not a tube amp, but the tweed input on a Quilter Aviator Cub will get you into the same neighborhood as a tweed Deluxe (the amp it's supposedly based on) with reverb and a master volume. I can get close to an early Burrell sound with my P-90 Les Paul through mine. I suspect another one that would get you close is a the Fender 68 Custom Vibro Champ. If you need something louder, maybe try out a Princeton Reverb (the tweediest of the BF/SF reverb amps).
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I'm still waiting to see the logical conclusion to pedals... no hiding in the cabinet, no pedal board, no loose pedals on the floor.
I'm imagining a guitarist who straps the pedals to his leg, easy reach adjustments... when the mini pedals appeared I was sure this was just over the horizon.
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The logical conclusion is there. It’s called modelling.
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I recently picked up a Victoria Club Deluxe. It is the deluxe circuit but without tremolo or the bright cap but retains the spring reverb. Also has a half power switch. All of this is housed in a tweed deluxe sized pine cabinet. It is a gorgeous sounding amp and at 22lbs is quite portable. It may work for you. One of the complaints people have about the Club Deluxe is that it is on the darker side tone wise.
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The other thing I would suggest is the Fairfield Circuitry Barbershop (or modele B)into a blackface amp with reverb gets a great sound. I’ve always thought that with a low level of gain and the voltage sag knob turned down (=high sag), the sound is “burrellesque”.
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Originally Posted by pauln
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I use a Strymon Flint with my 5e3, it works well although is probably overkill if you just need something subtle.
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There's probably more boutique tube amp makers all over the world than ever before. Bluetone in Finland, for example. These people make a living out of tweaking age-old schemes and building precisely what the customer wants. Alas, they do have to survive, so the price tag may be ostensibly steep. But what you get is handmade, point-to-point circuitry for the price of a big-name, PCB stuff where every component has been cost-optimized.
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