5e3 With Reverb?

[Jimmy Mack]

I applaud your search for a Burrell tone. One of my favs. With my amps, I find that turning up the MID dial gets me the closest to KB's tone. But he does have something going on with his fingers and picking technique that will always set his tone apart.
I have a Rivera era Fender Princeton Reverb II. Every time I spin the dials I am amazed at the variety of tones that I can accomplish. I just found a way to mimic the Dumble sound (in my bedroom).
But playing it clean, turning up the Mid pot makes it sound bigger, and more suited to jazz tones.

[Herbie]

To be fair, not all 5E3's sound the same. And on such a simple circuit, different guitars/pickups makes a HUGE difference. A Les Paul with P90s is not going to sound like a telecaster, is not going to sound like an archtop. The simpler the amp circuit, the more apparent differences in guitars/pickups becomes.

That’s true. And same with the speakers. All speakers sound good, just different. You can make it sound a bit like Marshall with Celestion Greenbacks, and more fendery with Jensens.

[jumpnblues]

Pretty darn hard to beat a well built 5e3 (Tweed Deluxe). I've owned 6 different Victoria amps over the years and they are ALL killer amps. I still have one. It's my second (20112 Tweed Deluxe) and I'll have it forever.

Add to that, Mark Baier is a great guy to deal with. And so is the dealer, Morgan Music, Lebanon, Missouri. I highly recommend Victoria amps. There are several other amps that I also highly recommend but if you're looking for a 5e3 Tweed Deluxe, look no further than a Victoria. I have no relationship to Victoria amps. I'm just a very satisfied customer. BTW, it sounds like a Vicky Verb would be great for your application.

[Bob_Ross]

This is basicly a one channel Deluxe Reverb but it has two important mods, which are important for classic jazz sound seeker: the Mid pot and the Tweed pot.

Who makes/sells ^^^that kit?

[Herbie]

Who makes/sells ^^^that kit?

A Finnish guitar oriented electronic supplier Uraltone has it. They are good people.

That kit with those mods was designed by a Finninsh talented jazz guitarist Teemu Viinikainen (that’s why the name TV Reverb) He has plenty of electronic skills too.

UralTone TV Reverb amplifier kit - Teemu Viinikainen Custom Deluxe Reverb

I have assembled two of these already. If You hesitate building one, I can do it for cheap!

I installed my own version in a DIY maxi-Princeton cabinet. It is as wide as Princeton box but a bit higher so 12” speaker fits in easily.

[GuyBoden]

Not all tubes are equal. Some sound much, much, much better than others. Especially preamp tubes (Valves).

[Herbie]

Not all tubes are equal. Some sound much, much, much better than others. Especially preamp tubes (Valves).

That’s true. But then: if You use Your amp on gigs and Your precious NOS tube decides to stop the game, You are in trouble or at least Your sound changes depending on what tube You happen to find from where You happen to be.

That’s why I stopped chasing the rarity tubes and buy the brand that is mostly available here where I mostly gig. Nowadays they are Tube Amp Doctor tubes but the situations change.

[ruger9]

That’s true. But then: if You use Your amp on gigs and Your precious NOS tube decides to stop the game, You are in trouble or at least Your sound changes depending on what tube You happen to find from where You happen to be.

That’s why I stopped chasing the rarity tubes and buy the brand that is mostly available here where I mostly gig. Nowadays they are Tube Amp Doctor tubes but the situations change.

Carry extras. They aren't rare these days. NOS can be depending on the tube, but many new-production tubes are just fine, and sound great. Carrying an extra preamp tube or two, and even an extra set of power tubes, is not a big deal. And in most amps it's an easy swap: just reach under, unplug & replug. Easy peasy.

Solid state/digital doesn't solve the reliability issue: if a SS/digital amps goes down, there's almost nothing you can do to fix it on the spot. It's usually a proprietary part (not something you can buy at Radio Shack, if Radio Shacks were still around), and you're pretty much dead in the water. With a tube amp, if a tube is the problem, you're back up and running in under 5 minutes.

[twtunes]

Tube amps are rather like cars from the 60s, sure were easy to work on, but they always needing working on. Modern cars start in any kind of weather and run for 100K miles with typically nothing more than oil changes. Then there are the electric cars. I do not miss cars from the 60s.

A solid state amp head can be so small you can carry a spare. I like the Elf, and mostly use my GK MB200. Tube emulation from a pedal, watts from a class D head, separate cabinet -- small, medium, or large, depending.

[bluejaybill]

Tube amps are rather like cars from the 60s, sure were easy to work on, but they always needing working on. Modern cars start in any kind of weather and run for 100K miles with typically nothing more than oil changes. Then there are the electric cars. I do not miss cars from the 60s.

A solid state amp head can be so small you can carry a spare. I like the Elf, and mostly use my GK MB200. Tube emulation from a pedal, watts from a class D head, separate cabinet -- small, medium, or large, depending.

That's simply not true. As an example, I had all of my (vintage) tube amps worked on before I moved to Nocal, mainly as a precaution because all were working fine. Very little work was done. Some have tubes that are 50 years old, including a vintage JTM with ancient bib bottle KT66's. My tech said they were a bit out of balance, but sounded great.
8 years later all are working fine after quite a bit of use. In many years of playing tube amps professionally, dragging a BFDR on a subway in NY, bouncing them around in cars, I think I had one go down on a gig once, and jiggling a tube fixed it.

Properly serviced tube amps can run great for a long while.

You do make a good point, solid state amps make great backups- so bring one to back up your tube amp!

BTW I do have SS amps that I like, such as the Little Jazz. I just like the sound of my tube amps better. Weight is the main reason to use SS IMHO.

[ruger9]

Weight is the main reason to use SS IMHO.

100%. I have a SS amp (Roland Blues Cube Artist) that I used for a few years at rehearsals and gigs. Recently I switched back to my Fender tube amp (a Super-Sonic 22). I prefer the tone and feel/response of the tube amp, but it's close. I MUCH prefer the lighter weight and ease of transport of the SS amp for gigging. For example, if I was playing someplace where I had to carry the amp up and down stairs, the tube amp is the one that would be staying in the car.

[GuyBoden]

I’ve never understood the obsession for reverb.

Reverb works in a duo situation or with few instruments, but I feel that in a band situation it puts the guitar back in the mix not in the front. I prefer stereo delays than reverb in a band situation and also when recording with backing band tracks. IMHO

Edit: But, having Reverb integrated into an amp combo is much more convenient.

[Burrellesque]

I've also been a chaser of the Kenny Burrell tone (I guess the member name gave that away).

I play a couple of old Gibson archtops through a Fender 5C3/5E3 clone. It gets pretty close to Kennys 'Midnight Blue' tone. His sound does vary a little from track to track on that album, and I'm sure that Rudy Van Gelders choices of mic, preamps etc are a factor in that great tone. As well as Kennys touch and phrasing of course.

I've never used reverb when chasing this sound either live or at home. Like others have mentioned, I find it muddys or darkens too much. I guess RVG would've added reverb. Probably the big EMG plate reverb?

The Catalinbread Topanga is a great spring reverb in pedal form. They do make the Talisman, which is a plate reverb. That could be worth trying. However... I have a Surfybear Classic, which is a close copy of the Fender 6G15 stand alone tank. I find it does something tone wise that pedals don't and set fairly low i can leave it on all the time and not get tired of it. The Topanga gets close sound wise, but doesn't feel the same.

[Bob_Ross]

Question for the folks using a ~12- or 15-watt 5E3 amp: Is it able to keep up volume-wise with a rhythm section without going into overt distortion/overdrive? I.e., does it have enough clean headroom to make it a viable amp for a traditional clean "jazz" guitar sound in a band situation?

I've heard conflicting reports from the few other guitarists I've asked; but that may have more to do with their personal tonal goals (and their personal definition of what "loud enough" means).

I keep thinking I want to build one of those tweed 5E3 kits since I love electronic projects, and soldering is like therapy for me...but I honestly have very little use for an amp that's going to get "fuzzy" once it's turned up more than bedroom volume.

Thanks.

[Herbie]

Question for the folks using a ~12- or 15-watt 5E3 amp: Is it able to keep up volume-wise with a rhythm section without going into overt distortion/overdrive? I.e., does it have enough clean headroom to make it a viable amp for a traditional clean "jazz" guitar sound in a band situation?

I've heard conflicting reports from the few other guitarists I've asked; but that may have more to do with their personal tonal goals (and their personal definition of what "loud enough" means).

I keep thinking I want to build one of those tweed 5E3 kits since I love electronic projects, and soldering is like therapy for me...but I honestly have very little use for an amp that's going to get "fuzzy" once it's turned up more than bedroom volume.

Thanks.

Well, yes – and no!

When I still used my 5E3 in jazz gigs I had a Weber 12F150 in it. It has higher sensitivity reading than Weber 12A125 which I use in it on rock gigs.

In the end I got bored in changing the speaker all the time and started to use different amps in different gigs.

You can get even cleaner results with some Eminence speakers with sensitivity over 100 dB. But do they sound vintagey enough, I don't know.

Then I changed the rectifier too. 5Y3 distorts earlier, GZ34 is cleaner.