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I’ve got a Milkman the Amp 100 on the way. I plan on building a cab for it myself and want to put at 12” speaker in it. The speakers I’ve used in the past such as the cannabis Rex or celestian gold are lower wattage. Does anyone have suggestions for a nice 12” 100 watts speaker for a jazz cab?
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12-13-2024 04:36 PM
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Electro-Voice EVM12L Classic 12" 200 Watt Guitar Loudspeaker - (8 Ohm) ?
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Icbw, but I don’t think you really need a 100w speaker, unless you plan on really cranking it.
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I use the Milkman 100w with a 10” Toob, 8 ohm Jensen rated at 100w.
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What does ICBW mean? Thanks.
Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Doug
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I was thinking the same but I wasn’t sure Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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how do you like your Milkman? Originally Posted by pcjazz
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The Weber California 12 makes a great speaker for jazz guitar...
https://www.tedweber.com/cali12f/
Cheers,
Arnie...
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I could be wrong Originally Posted by Doug B
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I could be wrong
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The Celestion B12-300 is very similar in sound quality but costs less and weighs a lot less. I used an EVM12L in my original Mesa Boogie for over 30 years and loved it. But the B12-300 in my Quilter BlockDock sounds almost the same, except that the EVM goes a bit higher and is a bit brighter. The Celestion is excellent for a classic jazz tone from my archtops and solids (driven by my Quilter OD202 or my DV Mark EG250). Originally Posted by Doug B
I agree with Woody Sound, though. You probably don’t need a 100W speaker if you’re playing jazz at any reasonable volume. Even with a loud band, none of us reaches even 20W RMS unless we’re using heavy distortion and/or playing large venues without sound reinforcement.
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Jensen Neo (Tornado)
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Celestion cream alnico is 90 watts. That should be close enough for jazz.
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Jensen Neo and Tornado are Neodymium speakers. They tend to sound best in closed back cabs, to have enough low end.
DV Mark makes a super light weight 1x12” cab with a 150 watt Noedynium speaker as well.
I have both WGS Blackhawk Alnico 100 watt and the ET90 speakers in a small Carvin 2x12” cab. If I had to pick just one it would be the
ET90 speakers in a for tightness. The Alnico is nice but a bit looser tone overall.
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Man, thanks for sharing this. I can never find good info on Neos so I've been hesitant to drop coin on any of them so I've stuck with heavy ceramics and alnicos. Does it retain those EVM characteristics as the volume rises to say, cranked Twin Reverb levels? I know you probably haven't tested it at quite that level but just wondering if things change a lot or just a little as you increase volume? I'm guessing they have a pretty lengthy break-in time. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I used the BlockDock 12HD with the OD202 head at one of our Sunday blues brunch shows to see what it could do, when I first got it. It’s definitely a close match for my Boogie hunree 1x12 with EVM12. Sound quality holds up well at very high volumes driven by the 200W (RMS) Quilter head - it just kept getting louder as I cranked it up. I don’t use heavy distortion - my only effect is a Smokin Amp Company Zensation for a bit of smooth Dumble ODS tone and a little chime. I purposely did not mic it - it just sat on top of the Leslie and filled the club with gobs of glorious grit! Originally Posted by DawgBone
I would have put a pair in my Twin, but it came to me from Jazzkritter with Jensen neo 12-100s in it, and they sound just right to me. The new BN12-300S may be a hair tighter than the EVM way down (all my guitars are 7s), but I haven’t heard one in a big open back cab like the Twin’s. For clean playing, chording, solo jazz etc, the Twin definitely sounds a bit fatter, richer, and more “relaxed” than a 1x12 (even my Boogie closed back ported Thiele cab with EVM12) at any volume. But with even a little crunch and for single string work of any kind, the 300 driven by a good and powerful amp in a good 1x12 cab is every bit as great as an EVM- loaded Twin at any volume.
The EVM and 300 have very similar performance numbers - Fs of 55Hz (EVM) and 62 (300), Qts of 0.25 (EVM) and 0.31 (300) and as expected, they sound similar. The bass on the 300 is a little tighter and the top end of the EVM is a little bright for my taste - I always dialed back the treble on the Boogie.
I don’t know if my 300 is “broken in” yet. It probably only has about 10 gigging hours on it. The rest is living room volume only. I keep it under the piano with my Twin & Princeton and use whichever I’m in the mood for if I practice in the living room. But I usually practice in the den with a small head and a Toob.
PS: The neo weight advantage is real and noticeable. My Twin (which appears to be in a solid pine cab) weighs 59.5 pounds with the Jensens in it.Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 12-14-2024 at 01:36 PM.
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I have four different Weber Californias that came from different used amps, as well as a Weber re-coned EV SRO (black finned) from my long gone Boogie MK l (1976). All are fairly bright for jazz, IMO. PM me if you want one at a good price. I think a higher powered Celestion is a better choice, personally, maybe a Lead 80 (used one for years) or a Creamback (yet to try).
I'm also using a Swamp Thang right now in a convertible 1x12 cab, still seems to have a weird upper mid range, but I've been too busy to swap it out again. Everything sounds better to me in a 2x12 with a mix of celestions and webers (12-65 and blue dog or 12-65 x 2).
For tube amps, I have an Allen Old Flame head (40 watt), a Vintage Sound "jazz" Deluxe (35 watt, bigger transformer), VHT 50ST head and 2x12 closed back cab (awesome cleans), black faced 70's Dual Showman in a Twin Cab and a Rivera Thirty Twelve. I always lean towards Celestions, vs Weber, Eminence and Warehouse. Like hitting the "loudness" button. Playing loud is another matter, though, which I don't do much of anymore.
Have fun on your quest!
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To my ear, neodymium speakers tend to lack lows in an open back cab. And they never are going to compare to say an EV or JBL. But at my age 67, no way am I lifting a heavy cab again!
If you are a home player and don’t have to move it,sure go for the EV or similar weight speaker!
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You don’t need a 100w speaker for that amp. I’d know, I play one all the time through various cabs at full band volume.
Great amp. Maybe a Jupiter or Fat Jimmy? If you are into exotic, I really like it with a celestion cream and also the tone tubby amsterdam.
Finally if you’re dead set on high wattage, that amp sounds wonderful through a raezers edge closed back cab.
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+1. I have the milkman 100. I had a light pine cab with a celestion cream 16 ohm made for another tube amp and it sounds great with the milkman. Easy rig to carry. I considered a neo but the 5 lb difference wasn’t convincing. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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Is the milkman amp 100w at 8 ohms? Or is it 100 at 4 ohms, 50 at 8, and 25 at 16 ? This is often the case for class D amps.
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100w at 8.
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Actually, it’s most SS non-class D amps that follow that rule. Class D amps usually put out more than half the power into twice the load, and the best ones are close to the same output at any load. The Quilter tone block makes 200W RMS into 4 or 8 Ohms. A Blu or Bud makes 120W into 8 Ohms and no more than 140 into 4. The Little Jazz makes 50W into 8 Ohms and 60 into 4. Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
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Eminence Deltalite II 2512.
Flat, same sound up and down in power. Light. Find out what your amps really sound like.
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Not flat if you look at the frequency response chart. According to Eminence, the "usable range" is 49 Hz-4.3 kHz. However, the SPL at 49 Hz is around 83 dB. It trends in a fairly linear fashion to 100 dB at 4.3 kHz, but there are two peaks, around 2.5 kHz and 3.5 kHz, with the SPL exceeding 105 dB. This no doubt infinite baffle data, meaning that the bottom end should be boosted by an appropriate closed or ported cab. Few if any amp/cab manufacturers issue actual performance data of their products. (Barefaced does post the max. SPL for each model.) Originally Posted by Cavalier
If I'm allowed to digress, the question of linearity is interesting. Guitar speakers are not supposed to be neutral and linear. They have their own voice. PA/FRFR speakers are. Bass? Probably in-between. Playing recorded music through a speaker system is one thing, playing an amplified instrument in a live situation is another. It's an intuitive and interactive process, conditioned by the music, who else is on stage, the venue and the spur of the moment. Knowing your gear is more important than linearity.
However, I sense that there's a drift towards more HiFi quality in instrument amplification. One driver is the growing modeling amp/IR community. The second is integration of music styles and cultures, with a variety of "ethnic" instruments like the oud showing up in the mainstream. Third: Bass guitar has become a solo instrument, increasingly relying on various effects and placing new demands on the sound quality and frequency range in amplification. We may well see an integration of high-wattage bass and FRFR speakers, covering the whole frequency range from, say, 35 Hz to 15 kHz. I'm not an expert but believe that in car audio, such coaxial or double-cone monsters already exist.
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