Valve Amps?

[dconeill]

I'm an old man. The reality is that I'm not going to be moving an Ampeg VT22 or a Fender Twin like I did in my younger days. Solid state for me. Close enough is close enough.

[Cavalier]

I'm an old man. The reality is that I'm not going to be moving an Ampeg VT22 or a Fender Twin like I did in my younger days. Solid state for me. Close enough is close enough.

A Twin is the way to go! To the chiropractor?

[jads57]

Both Tube and Solid State can be really good. It all depends what your needs are? In other words, a Fender Deluxe is wonderful for smaller gigs as well in a studio.
A Twin Reverb has way more headroom and can cover most any type of gig.But not as Sweet of tone as the Deluxe.

Downfalls of tube amps: Require new tubes, re biasing, heavier transformers, dependent on wall voltage, larger ones like a Twin are really heavy!

For me Quilter Aviator gen 1&2 are a better solution. Way more headroom for their size and weight. Not dependent on wall voltage, does not need expensive tube replacement service, extremely portable, can sound very close to a Fender. Also has an excellent direct out to recording or p.a. No worrying about microphone placement.

[Cunamara]

I've watched this video (that Litterick posted) and, personally, I liked, soundwise, the tube versione better... but of course, weight is an issue (for me) and the Tone Master has the advantage of lightness!

I liked the TM better at times and the tube version better at other times during the video. It was a little odd. I thought the TM had a better low-mids structure much of the time, the tube version tended to have more sparkle.

[frabarmus]

I liked the TM better at times and the tube version better at other times during the video. It was a little odd. I thought the TM had a better low-mids structure much of the time, the tube version tended to have more sparkle.

To my ears the tube version sounded warmer, cleaner, more "transparent"... but we're talking about nuances (perception, even)... maybe, with enough fine tuning, you could get either one to sound "warmer"...

[pauln]

VALVE AMPS?
That question no verb.
But the answer is yes!

Nothing else sounds like a big tube amp. People argue about why, but I think the answer is simple; tubes were designed for audio from the beginning, transistors were not designed for audio, but for switching on and off at high speed. Later, the attempt to reproduce music using transistors initially failed miserably, then failed less miserably as various circuit adjustments were applied to overcome their instability and nonlinearity. They got better but still fall short. The triode tubes from 100 years ago are still the most linear audio devices ever made.

A suggestion for why it makes a noticeable difference - the number of different types of distinguishing sensory receptor elements used for composing perception...

Night Vision - 2
Day Vision - 3
Taste - 4
Touch - 6
Smell - 7
Hearing - about 6000 (each side)

One of these perceptual modalities is different from the others...

[Gitterbug]

The world has changed. More and more venues have decent PA systems. Mature audiences like to toast and babble over music in bars. Hence, less stage volume is enough. 55% of respondents to this Forum's poll prefer SS over tubes. The Polytone cult is alive. I have made 804 ultra-light TOOB and Metro cabs to this date, mostly to pro and semi-pro musicians in 40 countries. Invariably, they use Class D micro heads to power the cabs. A stereo rig fits in one suitcase. Hopping from gig to gig by subway in NY - no problem. Priorities are different for a mobile musician and someone playing at home or in one club only. Also when you're over the hill.

My own history started in -66 or -67 with a horrid Burns Orbiter Stage One head powering a pair of homemade cabs. Early SS. It was meant for PA but neither the salesperson nor I knew what that meant. Since then, I've had both SS and tube amps. Never an issue with SS, lots of "bad luck" with tubes. I don't deny that they may sound better eg. on the verge of breakup, but audiences hardly hear the difference, and nuances get lost when playing in a band. A solo concert is a different story, but that's for a chosen few among us. So is cork-sniffing in the solitude of a home player. All development in recent years has taken place on the SS/DSP side of things, closing the gap, while tube amp marketing relies on solid arguments like "vintage", "magic" and "mojo".

[frabarmus]

While I still prefer tubes, I think the gap (in sound quality/warmth, etc.) between tube and solid state amps has narrowed in recent years.

I remember the gap was huge in 1974, when I had my first electric guitar: a Welson (made in Italy) SG copy with a Welson tube amp, a 2x12 huge amp which had 2 channels, one for guitar (no distorsion) and one for... organ (which I didn't even have but Welson also made organs)!! + it had reverb and tremolo. The sound was amazing, with plenty of head room. When I plugged into a friend's solid state amp, the sound just couldn't match that of my amp. That SS amp sounded "cold" and "sterile"... I asked my friend: "Why is that?" and he replied: "Yours has valves, mine has transistors". That Welson was the amp I first gigged with, it was so heavy I had named it "Beatrice la lavatrice" ("Beatrix the washing machine"). I gigged with it for 10 years (had it serviced once only) including with my first archtop (an Ibanez JP20) before selling it (which of course I regretted doing), cause I got tired of carrying it around, and replacing it with a Roland Cube 60 (the blue one), which sounded pretty cold, no matter how much I messed around with knobs etc. (infact I later replaced the Cube with a valve Yamaha T100C).

Nowdays, somehow, the gap has narrowed and both my Polytone Megabrute and my DV Mark Little Jazz sound warm and jazzy... nothing like the Cube60 or the SS Peavy that was in the classroom where I taught in the late 80's and early 90's

[DawgBone]

Guys keep mentioning audiences can't tell the difference. The audience don't have to play my amp, I do. If the audience can't tell the difference why don't y'all play some cheap second rate guitars too? Ohhhhhh, that's different.....

[Christian Miller]

How come no one ever talks about the tonal difference between discrete components and integrated circuits?


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[supersoul]

How come no one ever talks about the tonal difference between discrete components and integrated circuits?

Another thing to talk about is the difference in power supplies. The components are pretty much the same, but a good power supply will make them happier.
People do talk about it with tube amps, especially the rectifier and the power transformer, but not as much with solid state.

I'm totally cool with amps on a chip; they're reliable and do what they do (make a signal bigger) well (with a decent power supply).

[charleyrich99]

I use low wattage tube amps and hang an Sm57 over the top and run it into the PA. In that way my sound is mixed with the band's audio and not just a point source. It seems to work well for me.