Update on TC Combo Deluxe 65 pedal review

[RonGon]

Hi, and pleased to meet you all.

I'm a longtime Fender Deluxe Reverb kind of player (straight ahead jazz, pretty much old school 'jazzbox straight into an amp'). My Deluxe has been with me since about 1988. I found this discussion while looking for reviews on the TCE Combo Deluxe 65 pedal. However, I'm not sure I can use it the way I'd like to. I was thinking of...

- Using the Combo Deluxe 65 as the preamp
- Connecting that to an old Hafler power amp I have (bridged mono)
- Connecting the power amp to an open-back 1x12" cab with an old Jensen C12N in it (original, mid-1960s).

I also have an old rackmount digital delay which splits the mono signal to stereo, which I could use with my second 1x12" cab.

For mono use, I guess I'd use the Regular Out to the input of the power amp, and let the speaker cab color the sound in its way, rather than using the cab model from the DI Output.

My question is, what is the max output level from the Combo Deluxe 65?
The Hafler amp needs 0.775V RMS (about 1.1V peak) input signal to be driven to full power.
Can this pedal drive a power amp to full power with a typical electric guitar pickup as its source? The pedal would need to have about 100x gain, which is a lot.

Does anyone know?

Thanks.

[jzucker]

The TC Electronic Combo Deluxe 65' is a preamp pedal designed to output a signal appropriate for a power amp, mixer, or audio interface.¹

? Max Output Voltage

TC Electronic does not typically publish a single "max output voltage" (Vpk or Vrms) for their preamp pedals, as the output level is controlled by the Level knob and depends on the input signal (your guitar) and the Gain setting.
However, the specifications and user reports indicate that the Combo Deluxe 65' can provide a line-level signal from its outputs, especially the dedicated 1/4" TRS Direct Out (DI output with Cab Sim).² Line level signals are generally:

• Consumer Line Level: $-10 \text{ dBV}$ (approx. $0.316 \text{ V}_{\text{rms}}$)
  
• Professional Line Level: $+4 \text{ dBu}$ (approx. $1.228 \text{ V}_{\text{rms}}$)

Since the pedal is designed to go direct to a PA system or audio interface, which often require professional line level, its maximum output is almost certainly capable of reaching or exceeding the required voltage.

---

? Driving the Hafler Amp

Yes, the TC Combo Deluxe 65' should be able to drive your Hafler amp to full power.
Your Hafler amp requires a $\mathbf{0.775 \text{ V}_{\text{rms}}}$ input signal to reach full power. This voltage level is often referred to as $0 \text{ dBu}$ (Decibel unloaded), which is a common threshold for professional audio equipment.

[jzucker]

incidentally, i'm selling mine as I bought a kemper profile player and don't use the tc anymore. It's in mint condition other than dust. $100+shipping if you're interested.

[jhbpa]

incidentally, i'm selling mine as I bought a kemper profile player and don't use the tc anymore. It's in mint condition other than dust. $100+shipping if you're interested.

Hope you’ll be posting a review of the Kemper profile player, along with comparison to your experience with FM3.

[RonGon]

Thanks for your very thorough reply. That answers all my questions except for this one little detail:

...specifications and user reports indicate that the Combo Deluxe 65' can provide a line-level signal from its outputs, especially the dedicated 1/4" TRS Direct Out (DI output with Cab Sim).²

Does the 'regular' output (without the cab sim) have the same output level as the DI (with cab sim) output? The quote above makes it sound like the 'regular' output is lower in signal level.

Since I have a vintage Jensen 12" speaker ready to go, I don't think I'd need the cab sim for live performance. It would be great to have that for desktop recording, though.

Any idea?

Thanks again.
--

[jzucker]

i believe they are the same output but i don't have access to specs.

[jzucker]

Hope you’ll be posting a review of the Kemper profile player, along with comparison to your experience with FM3.

switched from Fractal to Kemper - kemper profile player mini review

[RonGon]

Thank you for your help with this. It's always good to get information from a real live knowledgeable person who's actually used the thing.

That Kemper gear looks pretty awesome.

I hope the TCE Combo Deluxe 65 compares well with the Kemper's 'Fender' profile. I can't afford the Kemper stuff (looks like the least expensive one is the $700 pedal) but I can afford the TCE ($170). I'd be very happy if the TCE captures the feel of a Deluxe Reverb convincingly, and I can reduce my load by 15 or 20 lbs. That would be wonderful.

Thanks again.

[jzucker]

Thank you for your help with this. It's always good to get information from a real live knowledgeable person who's actually used the thing.

That Kemper gear looks pretty awesome.

I hope the TCE Combo Deluxe 65 compares well with the Kemper's 'Fender' profile. I can't afford the Kemper stuff (looks like the least expensive one is the $700 pedal) but I can afford the TCE ($170). I'd be very happy if the TCE captures the feel of a Deluxe Reverb convincingly, and I can reduce my load by 15 or 20 lbs. That would be wonderful.

Thanks again.

the TC works well for a clean setting but the kemper blows it (and fractal) away with various nuances and a more realistic "impression" of the amp. But I really liked the TC, i thought it sounded more accurate for a deluxe reverb than the fractal TBH

[RonGon]

Yeah, at some point you get what you pay for. I guess the Kemper is the new frontier in amp modeling. Wait a couple of years and things will get even better, most likely. The digital world gets more and more 'real.' It's all kind of scary.

But it's good to hear that the Combo Deluxe 65 represents a step forward for budget amp modelers. I'm going to ponder this a little and I'll PM you with any decision I make about buying yours. Thanks again.

[Cunamara]

I bought Jack's TC Electronics Combo Deluxe 65 and used it for the first time at rehearsal this week and will be using it at a rehearsal and a gig next week. My interest in this pedal is being able to go straight to the PA in crowded spaces where there really isn't room for an amp. I also have a Tech 21 SansAmp Para Driver DI which I've had for a number of years and did a comparison of them at rehearsal.
Of the two, everybody in the band thought that the Deluxe sounded more "full." It's quite a bit brighter, consistent with being a Fender-style tone stack. Using the DI output to the mixing board, I ended up turning the treble to 1, the mids to 9 and the bass to 10. Even with the bright switch set to off, it's still quite bright. There was a little more tweaking at the board on EQ. I used the pedal's reverb rather than the board's most of the time and didn't strongly prefer either. It "felt" more like playing through an amp. I was able to maintain a clean tone by running the level high and the gain low, switching that around add some grit. There is a "two channel" option with this pedal that I will need to explore more and might be helpful for comping versus soloing. It can be set to either be in bypass mode vs. one of the two channels, or to always be on and have a choice between the two channels.

The SansAmp is something I have used off and on for 10 years or more. An advantage is that it will run on phantom power from the mixing board, which is nice and eliminates the need to bring a separate power supply. I would say it is warmer in tone but lacks the sparkle of the Fender tone stack. There is maybe a little less clean headroom but that could be compensated for by running the channel on the mixing board a little hotter. There is a lot more EQ adjustability in this pedal, which I think has a Baxandall tone stack. I think if I was doing a straightahead jazz gig this way, I'd prefer the SansAmp to the Deluxe. It can be kind of Polytone-ish. I would have to bring a separate reverb pedal, though, unless I was going to use the reverb built into the mixing board.

I am going to use the TC pedal for the next rehearsal and gig. The music we're playing is sort of jazz-adjacent pop/R&B plus a Dead tune, and I think the sound is suitable. If I was playing a straightahead bebop gig, I'd probably use the SansAmp- but since I suck at playing bebop and nobody hires me for those gigs anyway, that might be a moot point.

With both of these, there was something I really liked which was having my sound coming out of the PA and being more of a surround sound experience than having it come out of a point source on the floor behind me. It is easier to hear how what I am playing is mixing with the rest of the band; the vast majority of my playing experience has been an un-miked drummer, a bassist with his amp, me with my amp and un-miked horns in small rooms. Most of the time, hearing the bass was a challenge but with both the bassist and myself going through the PA, it was much easier to hear and blend. I could achieve the same thing lining out from an amp, of course, which is what the bass player was doing. But for gigs where stage space is at a premium, I think this is going to be helpful.

[jzucker]

I bought Jack's TC Electronics Combo Deluxe 65 and used it for the first time at rehearsal this week and will be using it at a rehearsal and a gig next week. My interest in this pedal is being able to go straight to the PA in crowded spaces where there really isn't room for an amp. I also have a Tech 21 SansAmp Para Driver DI which I've had for a number of years and did a comparison of them at rehearsal.
Of the two, everybody in the band thought that the Deluxe sounded more "full." It's quite a bit brighter, consistent with being a Fender-style tone stack. Using the DI output to the mixing board, I ended up turning the treble to 1, the mids to 9 and the bass to 10. Even with the bright switch set to off, it's still quite bright. There was a little more tweaking at the board on EQ. I used the pedal's reverb rather than the board's most of the time and didn't strongly prefer either. It "felt" more like playing through an amp. I was able to maintain a clean tone by running the level high and the gain low, switching that around add some grit. There is a "two channel" option with this pedal that I will need to explore more and might be helpful for comping versus soloing. It can be set to either be in bypass mode vs. one of the two channels, or to always be on and have a choice between the two channels.

The SansAmp is something I have used off and on for 10 years or more. An advantage is that it will run on phantom power from the mixing board, which is nice and eliminates the need to bring a separate power supply. I would say it is warmer in tone but lacks the sparkle of the Fender tone stack. There is maybe a little less clean headroom but that could be compensated for by running the channel on the mixing board a little hotter. There is a lot more EQ adjustability in this pedal, which I think has a Baxandall tone stack. I think if I was doing a straightahead jazz gig this way, I'd prefer the SansAmp to the Deluxe. It can be kind of Polytone-ish. I would have to bring a separate reverb pedal, though, unless I was going to use the reverb built into the mixing board.

I am going to use the TC pedal for the next rehearsal and gig. The music we're playing is sort of jazz-adjacent pop/R&B plus a Dead tune, and I think the sound is suitable. If I was playing a straightahead bebop gig, I'd probably use the SansAmp- but since I suck at playing bebop and nobody hires me for those gigs anyway, that might be a moot point.

With both of these, there was something I really liked which was having my sound coming out of the PA and being more of a surround sound experience than having it come out of a point source on the floor behind me. It is easier to hear how what I am playing is mixing with the rest of the band; the vast majority of my playing experience has been an un-miked drummer, a bassist with his amp, me with my amp and un-miked horns in small rooms. Most of the time, hearing the bass was a challenge but with both the bassist and myself going through the PA, it was much easier to hear and blend. I could achieve the same thing lining out from an amp, of course, which is what the bass player was doing. But for gigs where stage space is at a premium, I think this is going to be helpful.

you sure you used the cab output? I did not find the cab output to be super bright but of course, it's all subjective.

[Cunamara]

I did. But my ears seems to be sensitive to high frequencies than is the case for many folks, probably related to some hearing loss (presbycusis?). I find many guitar sounds painfully bright and often I am told my tone is too dark.

[GuyBoden]

I only use the "Red channel" on my TC Electronics Combo Deluxe 65 pedal, same as I did with an actual Fender Deluxe Reverb.

The TC Electronics Combo Deluxe 65 "Red Channel" sounds good to my old ears.

[Cunamara]

I'll have to look at that again- I have some red-green color vision deficiencies and sometimes can't readily tell different LEDs apart.

[John A.]

I'll have to look at that again- I have some red-green color vision deficiencies and sometimes can't readily tell different LEDs apart.

I have the same issue. On one of my amps, the settings are distinguished by an LED that changes color red/green/amber. Drives me nuts on on an otherwise great piece of kit.

[Cunamara]

Happily there is a directional difference between the two colors of LEDs (one on one side of the lens and the other on the other side), so I can tell which is which. And there is even a slight color difference that I can see- probably very noticeable to those with normal color vision.*

There is some difference in the voices of the two channels, with the "red" channel (based on the tremolo channel) being slightly darker. More a matter of texture, but nice to have options. Looking forward to final rehearsal tomorrow and the gig Wednesday. It'll be a new experience to go amp-less.



*Every so often my wife asks me if I was deliberately intending to go out of the house "like that."

[jzucker]

you may be misunderstanding the red and green channels. They are no different in voicing. The two channels just let you switch between 2 different sets of tone settings. One is not inherently brighter than the other. And as soon as you turn a tone knob, you override that knob in that channel's saved settings.

[Cunamara]

According to the manual, the two channels are voiced a bit differently. That's all I have to go by.

[jzucker]

I looked it up and you're exactly right, the red channel has more gain

[Cunamara]

It's not a huge difference, at least not without the gain turned way up, but it's a little thicker or textural. I think I could also twiddle the knobs to make the two channels sound the same.

[GuyBoden]

The TC Electronics Combo Deluxe 65 pedal's "Red Channel" sounds better to me at the same settings, to my old ears.

[Cunamara]

Used the Combo Deluxe 65 today for rehearsal, will try it tomorrow at our first gig as a band. Tonewise today was pretty successful. We made a minor tweak to the EQ at the board (there was a bit of a mids cut, really unnecessary with a Fender style tone stack, so we made it basically flat. PreSonus digital rack mixer with an iPad-based control board- the first time I've seen anything like that. QSC speakers).

I set it up to switch between channels rather than a channel and bypass. I set the "green" channel almost squeaky clean and the "red" channel to have a little bit of grit. The former was mostly used to give an acoustic guitar impression (my guitar has a Bill Lawrence Q filter on a push-pull pot- which won't fool anyone, but its gets a flattopish sparkle for fingerpicking) and the latter was used for just about everything else.

I like having the guitar sound projected in a more ambient way rather than coming from a point source amplifier behind me. I can hear how I sit in the mix more easily and hopefully that will lead to better interaction with other instruments.

[bluenote61]

According to the manual, the two channels are voiced a bit differently. That's all I have to go by.

Yes, they are voiced slightly different. The "green" channel shall reflect the "normal" input of a DR, the "red" channel reflect the "Vibrato" input, which is also a bit hotter like it is in the original amp.

[Cunamara]

To update, I used the TC pedal at the first gig for my new band. Guitar > pedal > mixer, no amp. I used the onboard reverb. I was a little off-axis from the mains speaker and from the singer's monitor, so I didn't hear exactly what the audience heard but close enough. I liked the more ambient quality of hearing myself compared to the point source of an amp. The "red" channel was set with more gain and provided a nice blues tone, I enjoyed it. The "green" channel was set cleaner but still had some overdrive when I picked harder. Still learning how to interact with it, but the feel is surprisingly amp-like and has that slightly spongy rectifier sag kind of quality. There are both the onboard controls to deal with and the mixer, providing two learning curves. It's quiet with a very low noise floor.

My guitar was a semi-hollow TSO with a maple top and mahogany back and Gibson scale neck. It has Bill Lawrence L-90 pickups and a Q filter on a push-pull pot, which lowers the impedance of the pickup similar to a low-wind kind of thing. I used that for faking an acoustic-y tone on some tunes. Slightly convincing, good enough for the James Taylor tunes in the set. Also my first gig wireless, I really liked not having a cable to trip over.

I've used this rig for two rehearsals and a gig so far and like it a lot. For gigs like this where the space is at a premium (we had a triangular space about 8' x 12' for guitar, bass, drums and vocalist; the bassist has active pickups in his bass and went straight to the mixer), it's a nice option to have. We also had to run everything from one outlet, so the reduced energy demand was probably good for the circuit breakers.