Update on TC Combo Deluxe 65 pedal review

**Spook410** · 10-18-2024, 02:10 PM

Seems there's always confusion on what's what when it comes to preamp/amp/speaker modeling set ups.

The Joyo American is an analog circuit (not digital) approximation of a Fender tweed preamp. I know it says 'amp sim' but in my experience combining it with power amp modelers, it's just the preamp/EQ part. Does other things with a voice control and you can get a reasonable blackface tone. And that's all it does. If you want to emulate a 6V6 or 6L6 (or EL84 for that matter) power amp, you need additional gear. If you want to emulate a guitar combo speaker, you need additional gear. As for quality, I've used these for years. Quiet and rock solid.

Amp sim pedals include preamp model/amp model/speaker IR's. Strymon Iridium, UAD 65, TC Deluxe 65 are included along with several others. In this case, the Strymon and UAD let you download IR's and that may be important depending on what your ears tell you. All speaker IR's are not created equal and some sound better than others even when they model the same speaker cabinet set up (e.g. single Celestion cream back 12" with a Shure 57 centered or 2X10" CTS with a ribbon mic, et al). The speaker IR's that came stock with my Strymon kind of sucked and a better IR made a big difference. So, IMHO, when you compare one Fender Deluxe pedal to another, you have to consider which speaker IR you have loaded. And if you can't load a different speaker IR, then you hopefully really like the one it came with. On the other hand, if you want sim pedal to also do reverb, that limits your choices. For me, I find a fly weight board is just as easy as a single pedal. YMMV.

Then FRFR's but that's another topic.

**jzucker** · 10-18-2024, 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by charleyrich99

Any Idea how the TC is in front or in the effects loop of an amp? I have the JOYO American and tried it with my Fishman Lbx 100. It helped warm it up a bit, but still not enough to make my archtops sound good.

i use it going direct into a powered PA cab as well as into the front of an aguilar bass amp. Works great both ways.

**rpjazzguitar** · 10-18-2024, 03:15 PM

Two things to consider.

1. How it sounds at home.

2. How it sounds up a long flight of stairs.

**Jim Soloway** · 10-20-2024, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by bleakanddivine

That's the TX.. The TS308 is discontinued. Replaced by the TS408 which has a different sound to me, but you can tweak the EQ on it now.

Aside from sounding different than the 308, do you have any thoughts on the 408? At least on paper it seems like it's providing really good value with a lot of features for a pretty modest price.

**Jim Soloway** · 10-20-2024, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I use the 10" version but the guy I bought them from is the house guitar player for the kennedy center. He uses a single headrush FRFR-108 which is made by alto and pretty much the same as the TS408.

Thanks Jack. I have one more question (probably more later but just one for now). You may have even discussed this somewhere in the thread so forgive me for not going back through it in detail. When you go into the Alto, are you connecting from the "out" or the "DI" on the pedal? And I'm assuming there's nothing between the pedal and the Alto. Is that right? For my purposes the TC Combo Deluxe and an Alto 308 would probably give me all of the volume and coverage I would need for almost anything I'm likely to do with my own gear.

**jzucker** · 10-20-2024, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Thanks Jack. I have one more question (probably more later but just one for now). You may have even discussed this somewhere in the thread so forgive me for not going back through it in detail. When you go into the Alto, are you connecting from the "out" or the "DI" on the pedal? And I'm assuming there's nothing between the pedal and the Alto. Is that right? For my purposes the TC Combo Deluxe and an Alto 308 would probably give me all of the volume and coverage I would need for almost anything I'm likely to do with my own gear.

I'm using the DI. (Not sure why it's called DI when it's an output! The regular output does not have the cabinet simulator. The DI output has speaker modeling with a celestion creamback, open back cab which I believe TC licensed from celestion. I find that it sounds very good. For archtop, the regular output sounds good into the alto but if you dial up any gain, the regular output will have a little bit of buzzyness due to high frequency content. The DI output does not...

**Jim Soloway** · 10-20-2024, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I'm using the DI. (Not sure why it's called DI when it's an output! The regular output does not have the cabinet simulator. The DI output has speaker modeling with a celestion creamback, open back cab which I believe TC licensed from celestion. I find that it sounds very good. For archtop, the regular output sounds good into the alto but if you dial up any gain, the regular output will have a little bit of buzzyness due to high frequency content. The DI output does not...

Thanks Jack. I actually had a Dream 65 enroute when you started this thread. I like the Dream 65 but I have a feeling that the TC is a WAY better value and there are a lot of features on the Dream 65 that I'll never use (and I got it used for a really good price so switching should be pretty easy).

**jzucker** · 10-20-2024, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Thanks Jack. I actually had a Dream 65 enroute when you started this thread. I like the Dream 65 but I have a feeling that the TC is a WAY better value and there are a lot of features on the Dream 65 that I'll never use (and I got it used for a really good price so switching should be pretty easy).

I love the simplicity of the TC, just like the real amp. One thing I hate about the UA is the hidden parameters that can only be edited from the software. I just want to twist a knob when I want more treble or reverb...

**Jim Soloway** · 10-20-2024, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I love the simplicity of the TC, just like the real amp. One thing I hate about the UA is the hidden parameters that can only be edited from the software. I just want to twist a knob when I want more treble or reverb...

Agreed. I just ignored the hidden features and dealt what I could see.

To me the whole point of having an amp in a box is to have as much as possible available at hand. If I'm going to have to deal with hidden features I may as well have a full modeler.

**pingu** · 10-20-2024, 06:05 PM

Thanks for the review Jack
the TC seems like a very useful bit of kit (and not silly money)

It is interesting to me that you rate it highly because you’re very knowledgable about the different high-end modelling units around these days
great thanks again

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 10-20-2024, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

I'm using the DI. (Not sure why it's called DI when it's an output!

DI stands for direct injection. A true DI jack is an output intended to deliver an instrument’s signal to the input stage of a board through a mic input (ie to “inject” it into the board). Pro DIs have true balanced low impedance outputs to drive long lines with no signal loss or alteration.

**arnie65** · 10-20-2024, 08:07 PM

All this talk made me go out and buy the "Combo Deluxe 65" ; it arrived yesterday and Jack is right, it has a lot more headroom than the UA "Dream 65". Can't believe how good it sounds, for the price, this is a great pedal. I played it through my studio PA, then through my headrush speaker. What I like is that now I can do my woodshedding at any time by just using it and headphones.

Cheers,
Arnie...

**jzucker** · 10-20-2024, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by arnie65

All this talk made me go out and buy the "Combo Deluxe 65" ; it arrived yesterday and Jack is right, it has a lot more headroom than the UA "Dream 65". Can't believe how good it sounds, for the price, this is a great pedal. I played it through my studio PA, then through my headrush speaker. What I like is that now I can do my woodshedding at any time by just using it and headphones.

Cheers,
Arnie...

what phones are you using with it? My shure IEM and AKG M50X sound terrible for guitar or bass (not just through this pedal)

**Doug B** · 10-20-2024, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

What people are actually listening to, at least on Spotify:

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Well, I'm officially old; I haven't even heard of 50/50 of those albums.

**arnie65** · 10-20-2024, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

what phones are you using with it? My shure IEM and AKG M50X sound terrible for guitar or bass (not just through this pedal)

I'm using some old in-ear headphones I had made years ago, they have triple drivers, but work well. I tried my studio Beyerdynamic DT 1990, but the pedal can't drive those, and the volume was very low. I'm gonna get a cheap little preamp to use with it.

Arnold

**jzucker** · 10-20-2024, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Doug B

Well, I'm officially old; I haven't even heard of 50/50 of those albums.

It really doesn't matter what the lay-people are listening to. That's not necessarily who's buying gear. The only meaningful statistic is what new guitar players are playing and from guys I know in the music stores, it's mostly hard-core metal. For the most part, people aren't listening to taylor swift and buying new guitars and amps.

**Cunamara** · 10-21-2024, 12:01 AM

Well, at least there's still a few good products for those of us who have an interest in clean, warm, fat guitar sounds. This seems like one of them. I have an Alto TS110a that this might work well with; I've got an old SansAmp Para Driver DI that has sounded great through Quilter powered speakers, but is a bit sterile with the Alto. The Combo Deluxe 65 might sound a bit juicier.

Doesn't seem like there are more metal gigs than jazz gigs around here. Maybe folks are buying stuff for playing metal, but where do they play?

**Doug B** · 10-21-2024, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

Well, at least there's still a few good products for those of us who have an interest in clean, warm, fat guitar sounds. This seems like one of them. I have an Alto TS110a that this might work well with; I've got an old SansAmp Para Driver DI that has sounded great through Quilter powered speakers, but is a bit sterile with the Alto. The Combo Deluxe 65 might sound a bit juicier.

Maybe folks are buying stuff for playing metal, but where do they play?

Mostly in Mommy and Daddy's Basement I would suspect! :-)

**jzucker** · 10-21-2024, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Cunamara

Well, at least there's still a few good products for those of us who have an interest in clean, warm, fat guitar sounds. This seems like one of them. I have an Alto TS110a that this might work well with; I've got an old SansAmp Para Driver DI that has sounded great through Quilter powered speakers, but is a bit sterile with the Alto. The Combo Deluxe 65 might sound a bit juicier.

Doesn't seem like there are more metal gigs than jazz gigs around here. Maybe folks are buying stuff for playing metal, but where do they play?

There are around here. About 10x more.

**Alter** · 10-21-2024, 08:41 AM

However the metal market is a lot about plugins, everything from instrument sounds, to fake drums, keys, etc. They seem to do everything digital with plugins, up to complete albums material..!

**jzucker** · 10-21-2024, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Alter

However the metal market is a lot about plugins, everything from instrument sounds, to fake drums, keys, etc. They seem to do everything digital with plugins, up to complete albums material..!

Not sure what you're getting at. My point is that the new product market has been tilted toward hardcore players.

I think a lot of folks on this thread see "metal" and think of eddie van halen.

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 10-21-2024, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by jzucker

Not sure what you're getting at. My point is that the new product market has been tilted toward hardcore players.

I think a lot of folks on this thread see "metal" and think of eddie van halen.

Right - and Entheos is using Tonemaster Deluxes exclusively now

Except for the few innovators making breakthrough products, the “new product market” is still and forever aimed squarely at whoever will buy the most with the highest profit margin. But it’s deeply segmented and not amenable to generalization. Pedals that are supposed to make a $150 class D head sound like a Twin or a Marshall stack or a Dumble are not aimed at big name acts. And 4 figure modelers are not aimed at bedroom players or neighborhood garage bands.

OK, Robben Ford uses a ZenDrive. But I think most new products for guitarists are tilted toward the consumer market rather than the gigging musician. So who / what is hardcore?

**Alter** · 10-21-2024, 02:31 PM

I meant that, judging from local ads, forum transactions, youtube channels, gear reviews etc, it 'is still the rock crowd that is the mainstream force behind gear sales.

**bleakanddivine** · 10-22-2024, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Soloway

Aside from sounding different than the 308, do you have any thoughts on the 408? At least on paper it seems like it's providing really good value with a lot of features for a pretty modest price.

Yes, It'll do the same job as the 308. I liked the sound of the 308 (not clinically clean but slightly warm to suit a jazz guitar), but the 408 casing is a different shape which may be why it sounds too boxy to me, but with the extra EQ function (by phone) you can tweak it to approximate a 308 sound. It just takes a bit of effort.
One difference is that the 308 has a continuous line/mic range on each input but on the 408 the line and mic inputs are separate. On the 308 I would sometimes push a line input into the mic range to boost the volume, but on the 408 you'd have to switch inputs to do this. The 308 is only available occasionally used now.

**Jim Soloway** · 10-22-2024, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by bleakanddivine

Yes, It'll do the same job as the 308. I liked the sound of the 308 (not clinically clean but slightly warm to suit a jazz guitar), but the 408 casing is a different shape which may be why it sounds too boxy to me, but with the extra EQ function (by phone) you can tweak it to approximate a 308 sound. It just takes a bit of effort.
One difference is that the 308 has a continuous line/mic range on each input but on the 408 the line and mic inputs are separate. On the 308 I would sometimes push a line input into the mic range to boost the volume, but on the 408 you'd have to switch inputs to do this. The 308 is only available occasionally used now.

Thanks for the info. Lots to consider.