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This one I have to thank Deacon Mark for checking out while he was getting another one of the same model.
This one is different in a few ways. It has a Kent Armstrong pickup with Schatten volume and tone wheels. I can't tell if it was built in the factory that way or if the original owner had a second pickguard from Heritage for theses mods. I'll be able to tell when I get it today.
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06-22-2024 09:26 AM
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It sounded very similar to the one I bought possibly a bit more pure cutting output. Heritage made sure Smith's were done well and carved correctly. They were about the acoustic element of these guitars that Gibson forgot about. Suffice to say if anyone gets a chance for a Heritage Johnny Smith at a fair price, jump on that puppy a deal.
Case in point, Big Mike also has a Benedetto Johnny Smith blond in the batch of guitars for sale. I believe the price is around $7900. I spent time at Mike's back in December playing the Guild Johnny Smith vs the Heritage Johnny Smiths. No comparison the Heritage JS's far exceeded the Guild Benny version. Way more opening and responsive acoustically. Frankly I think the QC on was better too along with the 25 inch scale vs Guild JS of 25.6. It was a no brainer comparison sorry Benedetto fans.
You heard it here first that is my story and I sticking to the facts.
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DM I value your opinion and your vast real world knowledge, however these forums can become a matter for historic record and it is in that spirit, I feel like I should add a counter experience to yours.
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
I have both guitars, the Guild Benny JSA and the Hertiage JS and it is my humble opinion, that the Guild Benny Johnny Smith Award, is likely the finest made ‘mass produced’ archtop I've ever come across, with a quite astonishing acoustic tone, far exceeding that of the Heritage.
Now of course if you have an 18” Heritage JS, it's not a fair comparison; both mine are 17”
Heritage's quality control is notoriously bad, my JS is a perfect example of that.
The Heritage is a lovely guitar with a fantastic bop tone. The Guild Benny JSA is a work of art. There is almost no comparison. I do however prefer the tone of the Heritage because I’m not that in to ‘acoustic’ archtops.
So all's well that ends well
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Yes, this could be very true. I do know one or two other forum members who had issues with Guild JS guitars in particular the finish was heavy and suffocating the guitar's ability to respond. Originally Posted by Archie
DM I value your opinion and your vast real world knowledge, however these forums can become a matter for historic record and it is in that spirit, I feel like I should add a counter experience to yours.
I have both guitars, the Guild Benny JSA and the Hertiage JS and it is my humble opinion, that the Guild Benny Johnny Smith Award, is likely the finest made ‘mass produced’ archtop I've ever come across, with a quite astonishing acoustic tone, far exceeding that of the Heritage.
Now of course if you have an 18” Heritage JS, it's not a fair comparison; both mine are 17”
Heritage's quality control is notoriously bad, my JS is a perfect example of that.
The Heritage is a lovely guitar with a fantastic bop tone. The Guild Benny JSA is a work of art. There is almost no comparison. I do however prefer the tone of the Heritage because I’m not that in to ‘acoustic’ archtops.
So all's well that ends well
Another valuable point is guitars need to be looked at on the micro level each individually. At given time the diced are tossed and a crapper can show up. Case o norlin Gibsons that are less thought of yet some I have played rival the best ever.
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I owned two of the Westerly made Guild Benedetto Artist Awards and after trying to like them (for too long), I let them both go. One was "very good" acoustically, the other was "fair" acoustically. I found the 25 5/8 scale and the deep D profile neck "difficult". I also disliked the Benedetto pickup. That said, they were both high quality guitars, just not my cup of tea.
The one Heritage Johnny Smith that I played sounded great amplified, but was poor acoustically.
Every Gibson Johnny Smith that I have played sounded great amplified, but not that great acoustically. And their quality was all over the place.
The Westerly made (non Benedetto) Guild artist Awards that I have played have been all over the place quality wise, but the 71 Artist Award that I owned (and foolishly sold to a fellow forum member) was an outstanding guitar in every way.
The Heritage D'Angelico New Yorker that I own is an outstanding guitar in every way and won't be for sale again until after my demise. I have heard that some of those replicas were not that great.
It seems that every guitar needs to be judged on it's individual merits. That is what my experience informs me.
@Deacon Mark: Glad you got a special Heritage JS
@Archie: Glad you love your Guild Benedetto JSA
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"Heritage's quality control is notoriously bad,"
Sorry Archie, but thats complete BS! After the management change and letting go of their original and best people (same thing at gibson) they did have some QC issues. The Heritage archtops made pre '13-'18 compare well to anything from anybody and are notoriously fantastic underpriced archtops preferred by many over the comparable models from the other vaunted makers. Preference is personal, remarks like yours are notoriously irresponsible and obviously not well informed and dont help your credibility as a potential maker.
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Experience varies. I owned a GBJSA. It was built well, but the finish was extremely thick. Patrick also had the same experience. Electrically both sounded wonderful. I took the finish off the GBJSA. My luthier, who was a master, never saw that thickness of lacquer. He resprayed it with a thin amount of clear. It was much better acoustically. That instrument is in the Big Mike collection for sale.
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Thanks for posting this. Good thing I checked the Forum; I was just about to smash my Cremona!! Originally Posted by Archie
DM I value your opinion and your vast real world knowledge, however these forums can become a matter for historic record and it is in that spirit, I feel like I should add a counter experience to yours.
I have both guitars, the Guild Benny JSA and the Hertiage JS and it is my humble opinion, that the Guild Benny Johnny Smith Award, is likely the finest made ‘mass produced’ archtop I've ever come across, with a quite astonishing acoustic tone, far exceeding that of the Heritage.
Now of course if you have an 18” Heritage JS, it's not a fair comparison; both mine are 17”
Heritage's quality control is notoriously bad, my JS is a perfect example of that.
The Heritage is a lovely guitar with a fantastic bop tone. The Guild Benny JSA is a work of art. There is almost no comparison. I do however prefer the tone of the Heritage because I’m not that in to ‘acoustic’ archtops.
So all's well that ends well
Benedetto Fan
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I think that's a bloody fair post. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
In truth, I too am not over the moon about the neck on the GBJSA; it's too big for me. I much prefer the neck on the Heritage JS, it's actually very similar to the neck on my Guild Johnny Smith Award.
The Guild BJSA is an outlier, an odd ball and there are things such as the scale length that I do not really care for. I also find its acoustic tone too strong as I prefer a more amplified tone.
What I do enjoy about it is the weight (it's super light), I enjoy the fine construction details, like the matching offset contour under the neck extension, the paint finish (colour wise) and the sheer beauty of the arched plates.
The only other archtop I have with a recurve is my Campellone Deluxe.
These guitars are how fine archtops should be built. Full recurve, carved into the cutaway etc.. There is almost no mass produced archtop that does this. In fact none I can think of and in this way, it stands on its own as a testament to mass production and what you can achieve if you really go for it!
Bob put a lot of his top end carving techniques into this model and I appreciate it for that.
Plus if I didn't have a GBJSA, I wouldn't be able to do this!
Last edited by Archie; 06-22-2024 at 05:21 PM.
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Ok ok, loose lips etc.. Allow me to make a mends. Originally Posted by Rickco
Heritage QC has gone though phases of being notoriously bad! Those days may be behind us
Of course they are capable of producing stunning guitars. Many of which are owned by fellow forum members.
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Originally Posted by Archie
I think that's a bloody fair post.
In truth, I too am not over the moon about the neck on the GBJSA; it's too big for me. I much prefer the neck on the Heritage JS, it's actually very similar to the neck on my Guild Johnny Smith Award.
The Guild BJSA is an outlier, an odd ball and there are things such as the scale length that I do not really care for. I also find its acoustic tone too strong as I prefer a more amplified tone.
What I do enjoy about it is the weight (it's super light), I enjoy the fine construction details, like the matching offset contour under the neck extension, the paint finish (colour wise) and the sheer beauty of the arched plates.
The only other archtop I have with a recurve is my Campellone Deluxe.
These guitars are how fine archtops should be built. Full recurve, carved into the cutaway etc.. There is almost no mass produced archtop that does this. In fact none I can think of and in this way, it stands on its own as a testament to mass production and what you can achieve if you really go for it!
Bob put a lot of his top end carving techniques into this model and I appreciate it for that.
Plus if I didn't have a GBJSA, I wouldn't be able to do this!
I'm a big fan of Guild AAs. The Benedetto builds were great guitars too. I'm not sure why the finish was so thick, but the rest of it was wonderful. A mirror exam showed perfect workmanship too.
Everyone is different. I have a certain neck feel that seems just right. But I adjusted to large necks within a few hours, too. The fattest one was a late 1920s L-5. But even that felt like home when it was my only guitar.
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'Bout sums it up. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Arrived in good shape.
It's a late 1991, so it is an early one. The Kent Armstrong pickup is hotter than the standard Heritage Floating #3. It's light at 5# 8 oz.
It's a keeper. It plays easily and has a rich acoustic tone for flat wound 12s. Nothing not to like.
The quilted maple is gorgeous.
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Marty I bet it sounds fantastic. Binding looks good too! Originally Posted by Marty Grass
Arrived in good shape.
It's a late 1991, so it is an early one. The Kent Armstrong pickup is hotter than the standard Heritage Floating #3. It's light at 5# 8 oz.
It's a keeper. It plays easily and has a rich acoustic tone for flat wound 12s. Nothing not to like.
The quilted maple is gorgeous.
They were brave using that back piece!
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The backpiece has character but is solid. JP Moats, Marv Lamb or Aaron Cowles did the plate carving. They've done thousands at that point.
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Still holding up well. History will show that Heritage made and makes good archtops.
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I’m glad you a got a good one! Unfortunately I have to disagree with the old Heritage Guard making great Archtops.
I found that of the dozens of Golden Eagles I tried,they were too thin of carved plates as well as incredibly skinny necks. And extremely prone to feedback.
Hopefully the J.S. is an exception to their work. I still prefer the thicker plates and fuller neck shapes of Gibson Archtops. Even when they were working at Gibson Norlin.
Again this is just me, and others are certainly entitled to their opinions.
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Interesting conversation!
Mainly because I too owned both a 17” Heritage Johnny Smith, and a signed Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith! So there’s a few of us who’ve owned both.
The nitty gritty.
My Heritage was a total dud. But this was indicative of Heritage guitars right? Many were great, while some weren’t up to snuff.
But the GBJSA was a complete and total gem. And, it had that look! Man I’ve had the privilege of owning some unique and very nice guitars! Well, you know what they say about piano players! We just can’t get enough.
But Dr. Mark has been a mentor of mine of sorts. And I’ve purchased several of his guitars to boot.
In the end it’s all about making some sweet music. Keep jammin!
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"I found that of the dozens of Golden Eagles..." really,(well thats consistency) Ive been a Heritage player since '97 Ive never even seen a dozen GEs. The thin tops and necks has been beaten to death, its personal preference. I wasnt aware Gibsons werent prone to feedback, Ill have to tell that to my Gibsons, there is "not so much" better and best in every line from every maker ever and that only exists in the hands and ears of the player. When Im listening I dont care which guitar the players playing, only what and how, any of my faves could play rubber bands and sound great. Every player has unique goals, physicality and a personal sound in their head they want to achieve some of that comes from the instrument, most of it comes from the player. The manufacturers are trying a best guess of what "most" of the market will want. I like a Gibson for its "Gibsoness" and a Heritage for its (Heritage) neither one is better.
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And you’re entitled to yours. Originally Posted by jads57
But you never played this one…
or these…
what a pity.
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Glad you related this story.I bought a Heritage JS 2 years ago and it was deader than dead,even my luthier couldn't believe it.I related this story on another thread on this forum but was met with incredulity at the time like it was an impossibility. Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Interesting conversation!
Mainly because I too owned both a 17” Heritage Johnny Smith, and a signed Guild Benedetto Johnny Smith! So there’s a few of us who’ve owned both.
The nitty gritty.
My Heritage was a total dud. But this was indicative of Heritage guitars right? Many were great, while some weren’t up to snuff.
But the GBJSA was a complete and total gem. And, it had that look! Man I’ve had the privilege of owning some unique and very nice guitars! Well, you know what they say about piano players! We just can’t get enough.
But Dr. Mark has been a mentor of mine of sorts. And I’ve purchased several of his guitars to boot.
In the end it’s all about making some sweet music. Keep jammin!
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yeah, but mine sure did have that look! Originally Posted by nyc chaz
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that guitar looks killer M! What a privilege to own it. Hope you and the family are all doing good! Originally Posted by Marty Grass
Arrived in good shape.
It's a late 1991, so it is an early one. The Kent Armstrong pickup is hotter than the standard Heritage Floating #3. It's light at 5# 8 oz.
It's a keeper. It plays easily and has a rich acoustic tone for flat wound 12s. Nothing not to like.
The quilted maple is gorgeous.
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That was the downside of the guitar. The finish was wayyy too heavy. That’s just how to stifle a guitars voice. What were they thinking? Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Again this always about how we each relate to a certain builder or in this case builders of the Archtops.
Ive owned a number of Heritages including a Roy Clark,H-550,H-535, Millenium Ultra. While I’ve also had opportunities through a Heritage and Gibson dealer to try both of many Archtops they both brands models including carved Archtop Guitars.
I only tried the J.S.Rose one time briefly,and it was better than the Golden Eagles I tried many of over the years. I stand by my statements and feel Gibson in general builds better Archtops overall.
Are their certain Gibsons I didn’t like,sure!
But unequivocally I rarely played any carved tops from Heritage that I felt were at say Jim Hutchins,and some of the other Crimson Custom Shop builders level. Possibly one Sweet 16 floater, with a skinny neck.
I will also say Mark Campellone,John Buscarino,Bill Comins, make stellar Archtops as well. But again would not put Heritage in the same category.
I think it’s important to have info from different sources here when investing in an expensive guitar. And make an informed decision.
Im glad this Heritage J.S was a good one for this owner.
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